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Woman Is The N----r Of The World
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10 January 2019
3.40am
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Joe
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@AppleScruffJunior said
Is there any other word that is censored apart from the aforementioned one @Joe?

  

Nope. As I said before, I’m generally not a fan of censorship, and this is currently the only instance.

I’m not wishing to derail this thread too much, but this deserves a fuller response. The forum is normally a polite place, with people largely refraining from swearing. Although I don’t mind strong language when used appropriately, I quite like that people aren’t swearing left, right and centre (ie: the difference between passion and vulgarity).

I have no plans to filter any other words, although I may do in the future, depending on circumstances. As @meanmistermustard said, we’re more likely to edit/delete a message than put a blanket ban in place.

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10 January 2019
7.59am
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Bongo
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2019 – I was really hoping people would stop being wussies…. Grow some balls folks, it’s just a fucking slang word! paul-mccartney-facepalm_gif

 

John & Yoko approve two-virgins

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10 January 2019
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Bongo said
2019 – I was really hoping people would stop being wussies…. Grow some balls folks, it’s just a fucking slang word! 

It’s a fucking slang word that’s incredibly hurtful and dehumanizing to people. 

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GEORGE: In fact, The Detroit Sound. JOHN: In fact, yes. GEORGE: In fact, yeah. Tamla-Motown artists are our favorites. The Miracles. JOHN: We like Marvin Gaye. GEORGE: The Impressions, Marvin Gaye. PAUL & GEORGE: Mary Wells. GEORGE: The Exciters. RINGO: Chuck Jackson. JOHN: To name but eighty. 

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10 January 2019
1.42pm
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meanmistermustard
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sir walter raleigh said

Free speech is free speech, but this is Joe’s forum in the end. Arguing for your right to say the n word is a bad look

Free speech does not mean we can say whatever we like whenever we want and it be acceptable or lawful.

Bongo said
2019 – I was really hoping people would stop being wussies…. Grow some balls folks, it’s just a fucking slang word! paul-mccartney-facepalm_gif

 

John & Yoko approve two-virgins

  

John approved over 30 years ago, times have changed and we have no idea if John would do so today regarding the use of the ‘n’ word.  As for Yoko, I have no idea if she approves.

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10 January 2019
3.28pm
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sir walter raleigh
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meanmistermustard said

sir walter raleigh said

Free speech is free speech, but this is Joe’s forum in the end. Arguing for your right to say the n word is a bad look

Free speech does not mean we can say whatever we like whenever we want and it be acceptable or lawful. 

That was my point about it being Joe’s forum. He wouldn’t do this, but if he wanted to he could censor all Yoko criticism and it would not be i’m violation of free speech. I’m sure the forum would lose users as a consequence. If you want to leave the Beatles Bible because you can’t say the n word, good riddance 
  

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10 January 2019
6.08pm
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sir walter raleigh said

If you want to leave the Beatles Bible because you can’t say the n word, good riddance

Couldn’t agree more here…  A post that has since been removed (whether by the author or moderator is irrelevant) had posed the question “how can we talk about the song without mentioning the word that makes it so effective” should be addressed in an attempt to get the conversation back on track…  the Original Poster who began the thread had an excellent suggestion with the idea that John would’ve been better served to call it ‘Woman is the Slave to the Slaves’…  it actually gets John’s intent across just as, if not more, “effectively” while staying sensitive to those who took offence to its use in the first place and also being true to the lyric presented…

 

to elaborate further on sir walter raleigh’s comment, I’d go even further and extend a heartwarming welcome back to anyone who’s been turned away in the past by any inappropriate use of the word by any of us in the past…  as good as John’s performance on Dick Cavett’s show was, I’m beginning to regret posting the link in the first place…  there’s much to be gained here by John’s “insensitivity” for he does atleast shine a light on certain areas of the human psyche that most pretend don’t exist…  leave it to John to inspire us to probe the Darkest Recesses of the Human Mind and come out of it OK…  probably said it before here but Without The Darkness…  There Would Be No Light…:-)

10 January 2019
6.59pm
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Mean mister Mustard points out John’s song was 30 years ago….As though it was a worse world and things have changed for the better!

It’s a worse world now…..Not better 

The Beatles slipped in ‘tit,tit,tit and more brazenly, a certain ‘pie’,…Maybe ‘she’s a **** teaser’ and the vile, ‘ Boy you’ve been a naughty girl….etc I won’t complete the line incase somebody swoons.

I think Working Class Hero was the first time I heard that 4 letter word that starts with a labiodental fricative……..in a published sense ….Apart from ‘Hair’ where in the theatre one performer says the F word over and over and over and the joke is how that word loses its force with repetition.  

 

Swearing is completely Ok in music today…Even that ‘Ginger’ Ed Sheeran does it. 

The N word is very Ok….If you’re Black…(We said coloured when i was a kid….)

It wasn’t Ok  to say the N word in England from when more black people came to England. I recall seeing the Dam Busters a great film and thinking how unthinkingly rude they were in the ’50s……..If Winston Churchill was the last white man with Winston as his first name….The black labrador in Dam Busters was the last dog in England called ‘N—r’

Our standards and social mores were better in some ways, and worse than today in others. 

This clip below gives a glorious insight into the difference in British and American social mores in the 40’s…….Jump to about 25 minutes into it.

 

My problem is that we can’t today….(I don’t blame Joe at all for this) ….use the very word in John’s song that gives it its power, not even in a simple well mannered discussion …My honest shock at discovering this is apparently not a ‘good look’……

It’s perfectly OK today in Rap not only to use the n word  ……..Or the worst possible misogynistic lyrics, and be anti white . Rap and Hip-Hop have taken nastiness to the stratosphere…..In a nasty way.  

This has happened without notice….Because apparently it was a worse world 30 years ago, back when white people could at least discuss a word that they understood should not be used pejoratively then as now.

Anyway, for me little point is discussing John’s song, it will just wind me up……. 

Here’s a positive note to finish on. Even though he can’t say the word, and is careful to distinguish himself from my old white man demographic……He at least  understands and is fed-up with the hypocrisy. 

 

I won’t contribute further to this thread so I hope the mods let these words stand.

Thanks…… and again apologies to Joe. It’s his board and I would limit it in the same way if it was my responsibility to do so.

11 January 2019
4.06am
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My point was we cannot take what someone said decades ago and hold them to that opinion as we have no idea where they would stand on that issue today. I never said or intended to say in any way the world is better or worse than it was decades ago.

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23 January 2019
1.03pm
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Zig
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On 15 November 2013, I posted:
I remember hearing an interview in which John clarified his use of the word.

While it is true that the __ word [sic] is unfortunately used as a derogatory racial slur, it is not the only definition. I remember John stating that (and I confirmed it in the dictionary) he was referring to the definition, “a member of a socially disadvantaged class of persons”.

When I heard that interview it altered the meaning of the song for me and made it far less offensive. Having said that, I still think I would have chosen a different word to make the point.  

After reading the recent posts and re-reading mine above, I regret using the words “far less offensive”. It may appear less offensive to those of us who understand the definition of the word John was using. But to say it is “far less” offensive does not take into consideration the sensitivity of others here and in the general public. For that, I apologize. I know he couldn’t have called it ‘Woman Is A Member Of A Socially Disadvantaged Class Of Persons’, but still…

I have no problem with the word being barred from these pages. I’m not huge on political correctness and feel the pendulum of it swings too far in both directions. But this word, to me, seems like the most offensive slur there is when used as most hear it.

All these years later, and John is still creating a bit of a controversial buzz.

ahdn_john_08_gif Cheeky bitch…unless of course, the word offends you…then, it’s cheeky female dog.

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24 January 2019
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History is history. No need to erase it.

Feelings are also feelings. No need to erase them either.

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28 April 2020
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I really like this track, it’s got a great rocking beat to it and John’s vocal is great.

Tho I remain terrified that it comes on my phone when playing it thru a Bluetooth speaker in case I get arrested and have to leave the country.

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28 April 2020
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I love the sax intro as well as the melody throughout. As far as the lyrics go, the line of real impact is the way that John delivers “woman is the slave of the slaves, better scream about it”

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26 October 2021
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I’m disappointed that the full title isn’t used here. John didn’t call it ‘Woman Is the N—-r of the World’. It’s just a word. I despise cancel culture and trying to re-write history.

By the way, it’s a great record.  

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26 October 2021
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Black people had no problem with the word when John used it. I’ve seen footage about this. He had more support from the black community on this than he did from whites. 

Interesting that the same dynamic is in play today. Woke culture is mostly white people attacking other white people. 

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26 October 2021
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Granted, the word is universally disliked, unless black people are using it to refer to one another.

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26 October 2021
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I think it’s more of not wanting to cause offence on an issue that otherwise would. I take it there are streaming edits of the song where that word is silenced out. 
There was talk of ‘WITNOTW’ being a big reason for why ‘LINYC’ was not remastered and rereleased. But then ‘STINYC’ has been so who knows. 

I prefer the live version on the ‘Anthology’ for what it’s worth. But I do skip it if it comes out when playing my phone thru a speaker – see first paragraph for why. 

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The song rocks hard and you can tell John is really passionate about the topic with his vocals. 

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