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Some Time In New York City
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15 March 2019
12.00pm
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Rishikesh
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joshthenesnerd said
it's not the way she pronounces english, i just don't think she can sing well. and it sounds like she's just screaming and not even scream-singing.

  

She doesn’t scream through We’re All Water. I think you must be prejudiced in some way. 

Do you always only listen to singers who have perfect pitch?

Does it bother you more when a woman is off pitch?

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

15 March 2019
12.55pm
joshthenesnerd
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i was mostly referring to the live version of don't worry kyoko towards the end of the album. lotta shouting.

i guess i should set up a signature soon? maybe?

15 March 2019
12.58pm
joshthenesnerd
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tell you what since the live version of don't worry kyoko definitely affects my opinion of the album, i'll listen to just her songs on the album (minus the live stuff) and see if i can develop my opinion better. maybe i will appreciate it a little more. and if not i can think about my reasoning a little more.

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Expert Textpert

i guess i should set up a signature soon? maybe?

15 March 2019
1.09pm
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@joshthenesnerd thank you for being rational and open minded.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

15 March 2019
1.20pm
joshthenesnerd
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i listened to sisters o sisters, born in a prison and we're all water. those 3 are credited to just her according to wikipedia. i took notes while i was listening to them to remember what i was thinking. before i copy-paste those notes in, i will say that after listening to them on their own from the rest of the album, i don't dislike them as much as i did.

sisters, o sisters. ok, it's pretty groovy but she needs a couple more people to harmonise with. maybe not a criticism of her singing, but just on the song over all.

 

born in a prison the singing feels like it is droning but the slow bluesy-jazz is nice

 

we're all water - i like the old rock and roll vibe of it. it's like it's echoing the earlier track "new york city" her singing isn't awful but i think the music around her. there's the shouting and random noises from her at about 1 minute 50 seconds in it lasts for about 20 seconds, makes me uncomfortable. comes back in at about 3 minutes 30 seconds. that's the kind of stuff i am referring to that i don't like.

i guess i should set up a signature soon? maybe?

15 March 2019
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Interesting. I know that some people don't like such things and I'm trying to figure out what makes me different from a person that doesn't like them.

When I hear Yoko make those sounds I hear raw emotion. I actually hear a lot of different emotions at once. It is funny, sad, angry, and maybe other things too. But mostly I think it is just awesome that she would do something so random.

I don't know, but I'm guessing that people who are made uncomfortable by Yoko's vocal sounds probably don't think outside the box too much, like to follow rules, and enjoy music that makes them feel calm and serene. Am I off the mark?

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

15 March 2019
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50yearslate
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Expert Textpert said
Interesting. I know that some people don't like such things and I'm trying to figure out what makes me different from a person that doesn't like them.

Everyone's tastes are different, I suppose. I mean, there are people who don't like the Beatles, which I personally don't understand... but they're entitled to their opinions, I suppose.

When I hear Yoko make those sounds I hear raw emotion. I actually hear a lot of different emotions at once. It is funny, sad, angry, and maybe other things too. But mostly I think it is just awesome that she would do something so random.

If by "those sounds" you mean the screaming, you're absolutely right. It's just that I don't like the sound. I'm like a dog; loud noises scare me.

I don't know, but I'm guessing that people who are made uncomfortable by Yoko's vocal sounds probably don't think outside the box too much, like to follow rules, and enjoy music that makes them feel calm and serene. Am I off the mark?

  

If by "vocal sounds" you mean talking/singing, this doesn't apply to me. If you're referring to the screaming, I don't know about the first two but I enjoy different kinds of music. Sure, I like music like Imagine and Give Me Love, but I also like stuff like Art Of Dying and Helter Skelter and Pablo Picasso. 

Love one another.

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(I'm Fiddy, not Walrian)

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15 March 2019
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By "vocal sounds" I mean the screaming/weird sounds.

These sounds tend to bother a certain type of person so much that he is usually unwilling to admit that Yoko Ono actually does anything besides making these sounds.

When confronted with the notion that she uses words and actually sings them, this sort of person will gloss over those facts and turn the conversation back around to the screaming.

I suspect that there is some other reason besides the screaming that this type of person doesn't like Yoko Ono, and that they are using the screaming as an easy way to explain why they don't like her.

Their thought process is probably something like this (the following statements are me imagining I am such a person):

I don't like Yoko Ono because she is a Japanese woman. She is a bitch and she should keep her mouth shut. I wish her songs were not on John Lennon 's albums at all. She broke up the Beatles and she thinks she is actually an artist but she's not. How could she want equal billing with a man? How preposterous. However, I know that it is socially unacceptable for me to express these thoughts because people will say I am a misogynist. Therefore, I will instead attack that weird screaming sound that she makes and pretend this is the reason I don't like her. And I will pretend that making this sound is the only thing she ever does.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

15 March 2019
3.03pm
joshthenesnerd
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Expert Textpert said
When I hear Yoko make those sounds I hear raw emotion. I actually hear a lot of different emotions at once. It is funny, sad, angry, and maybe other things too.

that's an interesting viewpoint. next time i listen to her stuff i will try to go in with that mindset.

When confronted with the notion that she uses words and actually sings them, this sort of person will gloss over those facts and turn the conversation back around to the screaming.

i find it overpowers the rest of her musical work, but i probably need to try to look past it.

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i guess i should set up a signature soon? maybe?

2 May 2020
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I listened to 'Plastic Ono Band' last night and am now listening to 'Some Time In New York City '. I did listen to it a few months ago for the first time in years, so it is not exactly new again, but here are my thoughts!

This album followed John's two classic, critically well received albums, Plastic Ono Band & Imagine , the latter which was also very popular and got to No.1 on both sides of the Atlantic. So John's stock had risen since the Beatles break-up, while Paul's had fallen. So what happened to his next album?! It could have been a triumph!

Sadly, he moved to NY and got caught up in 'left wing' politics. The problem with politics is that what some people believe, others don't, thus he split his audience immediately. Another problem is that for those living in UK, they probably didn't understand the American issues he was singing about and didn't agree with his position regarding the Irish songs and probably felt somewhat betrayed.

I'd like to do a review of the album, as it is one that is rarely discussed ...

1. 'Woman Is The N....r Of The World' - this is a powerful opener musically and obviously lyrically. It is a really good song and addressed many of the issues of the feminist movement in the early 70s. However it is very simplistic lyrically though interesting to have the song from a man's point of view? The biggest fault with the song is the use of the 'N' word. I wish he had come up with a different comparision. Musically, the song is brilliant though! (8/10)

2. Sisters, O Sisters - Yoko's first song on the album and I have always liked this one. This has the same subject matter as the previous song, but much more palatable lyrically. Musically, the reggae tune is catchy and Yoko sings the song well! Yes, really! 🙂 (7/10)

3. Attica State - This is quicker rock song and is quite fine musically. I like the garage band, not over produced, feel of the album. However, the lyrics don't really fit and I have no idea what they are about ... I assume some sort of riot in a jail? The problem with singing about specific incidents is that they quickly become yesterday's news and irrelevant. Compare this to some of the songs in the late 70s, like 'Oliver's Army' by Elvis Costello or 'Down In The Tube Station at Midnight' by The Jam ... just as political but written in a way that it is still relevant today. (6/10)

4. Born In A Prison - Another Yoko song and again, another good song ... and she sings as good as she could do. The song is quite good and about a general topic, so easier to listen to. Musically, there is a lovely saxophone solo at the end. (6/10)

5. New York City - The highlight of the album! Of course, it is a bit like 'Ballad Of John & Yoko' but a great song. The playing is great by The Elephant's Memory Band and John's voice is wonderful! If the album had been more general like this and less specific, subject wise, it would have been more popular. (9/10)

6. Sunday Bloody Sunday - The first of two songs about Ireland. Musically it is fantastic and builds and builds to a climax. However, coming from N. Ireland, it is a song that I find hard to listen to and never play it without headphones! I just don't agree with it politically, which is probably people's problem with the whole album! Brilliant musically though! (7/10 for the music. 2/10 for the lyrics)

7. The Luck Of The Irish - a bit of a dirge. Again, John betrays his own people, alienating a huge chunk of his fans. Yoko's bits are just embarrassing! (2/10)

8. John Sinclair - not really sure who John Sinclair was, though could 'google' him. Musically this is a good song and the slide guitar is great! Far to many 'gotta's' though! (7/10)

9. Angela - this is a beautiful song musically. I have heard John sing a version of this tune, on youtube, with totally different lyrics and it was lovely. Again, I don't really know much about Angela, though I think she is also, who the Stones sang about in 'Sweet Black Angel'. The use of 70's jargon like 'sister' hasn't dated well. A highlight of the album musically though! (8/10)

10. We're All Water - Great rocking finale! Is this Yoko's best vocal performance? ... even the 'ooow ooows'! She actually sounds quite cute! Anyway, a great song to finish an album which could have been a lot better if it hadn't had such specific subjects! (9/10)

All in all, Yoko's songs were less specific and more general and have maybe fared better over time. Some of John's are very uncomfortable to listen to ... he hadn't learnt from 'How Do You Sleep?'. A big shame was that he was in such fine voice, vocally ... and it was rather wasted on the subject matter! Musically, the album was punchy and lively and mostly exciting! 

I reckon that this album sort of marks the end of John being relevant in the 'music business'. After this album, he released 'Mind Games ' which, although it had some good songs, was banal and bland and offered little excitement. 'Walls And Bridges ' was an improvement, but a bit too slick and over produced! 'Rock 'N' Roll ' was a bit uninspired ... his Beatle covers were so much better ... and then he retired!

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Beatlebug
2 May 2020
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@alittlebitolder said
The problem with politics is that what some people believe, others don't, thus he split his audience immediately.  

Well put. This is precisely why I tend not to like politics in art. john-lennon-salute_gif

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