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Does anyone think there was anything suspicious about John Lennon's murder?
5 July 2023
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Sea Belt
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Expert Textpert said

Sea Belt said

Why would a Cabal want to use Catcher in the Rye?

  

As a trigger for a Manchurian candidate. The book has been found in the possession of several assassins.

  

Expert Textpert said

Sea Belt said

Why would a Cabal want to use Catcher in the Rye?

  

As a trigger for a Manchurian candidate. The book has been found in the possession of several assassins.

  

I read and enjoyed Catcher in the Rye. I can’t remember anything in it that would be triggering for assassination.

Now today I find, you have changed your mind

5 July 2023
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Sea Belt said

Expert Textpert said

Sea Belt said

Why would a Cabal want to use Catcher in the Rye?

  

As a trigger for a Manchurian candidate. The book has been found in the possession of several assassins.

  

Expert Textpert said

Sea Belt said

Why would a Cabal want to use Catcher in the Rye?

  

As a trigger for a Manchurian candidate. The book has been found in the possession of several assassins.

  

I read and enjoyed Catcher in the Rye. I can’t remember anything in it that would be triggering for assassination.

  

It’s not the book itself. It’s the way the government uses the book as part of a scheme to brainwash and trigger the assassin to make him commit the crime (or take the blame for it) and then think he just lost his mind.

"If you're ever in the shit, grab my tit.” —Paul McCartney 

5 July 2023
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That dude is probably reading our discussion and getting more ideas for his book.

"If you're ever in the shit, grab my tit.” —Paul McCartney 

5 July 2023
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Von Bontee
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There’s a “Paul is Dead” thread or two here also, if he plans to write an expose of that death as well.

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Expert Textpert

Paul: Yeah well… first of all, we’re bringing out a ‘Stamp Out Detroit’ campaign.

         

6 July 2023
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Sea Belt
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Expert Textpert said

Sea Belt said

Expert Textpert said

Sea Belt said

Why would a Cabal want to use Catcher in the Rye?

  

As a trigger for a Manchurian candidate. The book has been found in the possession of several assassins.

  

Expert Textpert said

Sea Belt said

Why would a Cabal want to use Catcher in the Rye?

  

As a trigger for a Manchurian candidate. The book has been found in the possession of several assassins.

  

I read and enjoyed Catcher in the Rye. I can’t remember anything in it that would be triggering for assassination.

  

It’s not the book itself. It’s the way the government uses the book as part of a scheme to brainwash and trigger the assassin to make him commit the crime (or take the blame for it) and then think he just lost his mind.

  

I guess a question that comes to mind is, is there anything special about Catcher in the Rye that makes it useful for this brainwashing trigger, or could the government use any book (Black Beauty, Dr. Zhivago, Huck Finn, the Boston Yellow Pages)?

Now today I find, you have changed your mind

6 July 2023
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I haven’t read the book, but probably something to do with being a loner or outsider.

"If you're ever in the shit, grab my tit.” —Paul McCartney 

7 July 2023
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I found this

https://medium.com/@sec220/the…..16033a75ed

The other element that many relate to is his unending tirade on phoniness. I can imagine how, especially during the 50’s when Catcher was published, this would have mass appeal in the post-war, pastel world of suburban America. Holden’s staunch stance against phoniness appealed to violence as well. On December 8th of 1980, John Lennon was shot by Mark David Chapman. Outside of Lennon’s Manhattan home, police officers arrived to the scene to find Chapman casually flipping through his copy of Catcher in the Rye.

During the case, when asked why he chose to kill John Lennon , Chapman stated “because he was famous”. Chapman later claimed that he believed Holden Caulfied would have killed John Lennon because he was a “phony”. Like Caulfield, Chapman also preferred children. He had worked with children at the YMCA camp, and according to him, those children would’ve said he is very kind. The part of him that killed Lennon was the part of him that “cannot understand the world and what goes on in it”. He is quoted as citing the novel as his motive. Before his sentencing, Chapman read a passage from the novel in the courtroom. He thought of himself as the ‘catcher in the rye of his generation’.

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Sea Belt
7 July 2023
11.21pm
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Interesting info that Ahhh Girl posted.  Catcher in the Rye even if it does have a general message of being against “phony” people etc., that’s too vague to be plausibly an actual vehicle by which to trigger an assassin.  The only plausible theory would entail a novel that specifically had a sympathetic hero who realizes he must kill a famous pop singer — maybe even just famous pop star in general, but no more general than that.  The potential stooge also would have to be schizophrenic at the very least, to be plausible.  But again, this particular novel?  Nah, way too vague to be plausible as a way to get Chapman to kill Lennon.

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8 July 2023
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Sea Belt said
Interesting info that Ahhh Girl posted.  Catcher in the Rye even if it does have a general message of being against “phony” people etc., that’s too vague to be plausibly an actual vehicle by which to trigger an assassin.  The only plausible theory would entail a novel that specifically had a sympathetic hero who realizes he must kill a famous pop singer — maybe even just famous pop star in general, but no more general than that.  The potential stooge also would have to be schizophrenic at the very least, to be plausible.  But again, this particular novel?  Nah, way too vague to be plausible as a way to get Chapman to kill Lennon.

  

@seabelt 

“Published during the height of the Cold War in 1951, allegations were made against the author JD Salinger saying that he craftily implanted into the book neurolinguistic passages or complex messages that have the potential to activate mind triggers.”

 

https://conspiracytheories.in/…..hing-tool/

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8 July 2023
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Chapman, Lee Harvey Oswald, and John Hinckley all had copies of the book in their possession at the time of assassination or attempted assassination. All three had large blocks of time in their lives where their whereabouts were unaccounted for.

 

https://prezi.com/bwc8-c6kqgwa…..n-trigger/

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8 July 2023
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Me, I think if the CIA or some other huge shadowy U.S. Government agency wanted to silence John Lennon , they might’ve tried an easier method than locating some random civilian, a disgruntled one-time Beatles/Lennon superfan; and employing “Manchurian Candidate” techniques to brainwash him into committing loud, brazen gunshot murder on a prominent NYC street – all while there’s also, additionally, an actual *trained* military sniper secluded nearby, also armed, to help out *in case* the poor brainwashed patsy can’t aim or fire properly, maybe he was simultaneously trying to Hi-Lite a passage in his copy of Salinger…yeah, no. Like, wouldn’t it be far less convoluted for “The Man” simply to have, say, called in a few trained professionals to just infiltrate his circle, then grab John, secret him away, and inject him with a lethal dose of heroin? “JOHN LENNON OVERDOSE TRAGEDY”, “BEATLE LENNON DEAD AT 40” are the headlines the next day; and it’s still a shocking worldwide tragedy, but not such a completely shocking, attention-grabbing event as a celebrity *murder*,  not in a culture where pop musicians die of drug/alcohol deaths on a regular basis*.

(*Darby Crash of punk rockers The Germs fatally overdosed on heroin on December 7th of 1980, in fact; and 60s guitar legend Mike Bloomfield would likewise succumb a few months later)

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Paul: Yeah well… first of all, we’re bringing out a ‘Stamp Out Detroit’ campaign.

         

8 July 2023
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P.S.:  Of course Chapman says he got that message from Catcher in the Rye — but that’s not the same thing as some nefarious cabal figuring out a way to get Chapman to read the book and then bank on him being triggered enough to want to kill Lennon.  That’s way too much of a stretch.

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8 July 2023
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Expert Textpert said

Sea Belt said

Interesting info that Ahhh Girl posted.  Catcher in the Rye even if it does have a general message of being against “phony” people etc., that’s too vague to be plausibly an actual vehicle by which to trigger an assassin.  The only plausible theory would entail a novel that specifically had a sympathetic hero who realizes he must kill a famous pop singer — maybe even just famous pop star in general, but no more general than that.  The potential stooge also would have to be schizophrenic at the very least, to be plausible.  But again, this particular novel?  Nah, way too vague to be plausible as a way to get Chapman to kill Lennon.

  

@seabelt 

“Published during the height of the Cold War in 1951, allegations were made against the author JD Salinger saying that he craftily implanted into the book neurolinguistic passages or complex messages that have the potential to activate mind triggers.”

 

https://conspiracytheories.in/…..hing-tool/

  

That quote is a good example of weaselly cover-your-ass language to imply a conspiracy without a shred of evidence.  “allegations” is already establishing distance from hard evidence; “were made” provides further insulation.  Were made by whom?  On what basis?  The writer provides nothing tangible.  I could use that locution about any claim, no matter how outlandish. 

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8 July 2023
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Expert Textpert said
Chapman, Lee Harvey Oswald, and John Hinckley all had copies of the book in their possession at the time of assassination or attempted assassination. All three had large blocks of time in their lives where their whereabouts were unaccounted for.

 

https://prezi.com/bwc8-c6kqgwa…..n-trigger/

  

That video presents the claim in text on the screen that “when police raided his [Oswald’s] apartment they found Catcher in the Rye along with Mein Kampf, Das Kapital and Animal Farm” — but provides zero proof of this.  Even if true, it doesn’t prove either that Oswald was triggered to kill Kennedy by reading it, or that he was manipulated into being triggered by being given the book to read.

Now today I find, you have changed your mind

8 July 2023
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Von Bontee said
Me, I think if the CIA or some other huge shadowy U.S. Government agency wanted to silence John Lennon , they might’ve tried an easier method than locating some random civilian, a disgruntled one-time Beatles/Lennon superfan; and employing “Manchurian Candidate” techniques to brainwash him into committing loud, brazen gunshot murder on a prominent NYC street – all while there’s also, additionally, an actual *trained* military sniper secluded nearby, also armed, to help out *in case* the poor brainwashed patsy can’t aim or fire properly, maybe he was simultaneously trying to Hi-Lite a passage in his copy of Salinger…yeah, no. Like, wouldn’t it be far less convoluted for “The Man” simply to have, say, called in a few trained professionals to just grab John, secret him away, and inject him with a lethal dose of heroin? “JOHN LENNON OVERDOSE TRAGEDY”, “BEATLE LENNON DEAD AT 40” are the headlines the next day; and it’s still a shocking worldwide tragedy, but not such a completely shocking, attention-grabbing event as a celebrity *murder*,  not in a culture where pop musicians die of drug/alcohol deaths on a regular basis*.

(*Darby Crash of punk rockers The Germs fatally overdosed on heroin on December 7th of 1980, in fact; and 60s guitar legend Mike Bloomfield would likewise succumb a few months later)

  

Yes, that’s a similar problem many conspiracy theories have: they posit some event was manufactured/engineered by some conspirators. Assuming the conspirators are wealthy and powerful and not crazy or stupid, it doesn’t seem plausible they would do it in such an elaborate way.  They could just kill Lennon, then manufacture/fabricate all the fraudulent “evidence” blaming the killing on some patsy they’ve already fabricated. And since they control the media, this would be easy to pull off — far easier than, as Von Bontee points out, trying to groom, train, brainwash, and position Chapman to do the job. 

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8 July 2023
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Von Bontee said
Me, I think if the CIA or some other huge shadowy U.S. Government agency wanted to silence John Lennon , they might’ve tried an easier method than locating some random civilian, a disgruntled one-time Beatles/Lennon superfan; and employing “Manchurian Candidate” techniques to brainwash him into committing loud, brazen gunshot murder on a prominent NYC street – all while there’s also, additionally, an actual *trained* military sniper secluded nearby, also armed, to help out *in case* the poor brainwashed patsy can’t aim or fire properly, maybe he was simultaneously trying to Hi-Lite a passage in his copy of Salinger…yeah, no. Like, wouldn’t it be far less convoluted for “The Man” simply to have, say, called in a few trained professionals to just grab John, secret him away, and inject him with a lethal dose of heroin? “JOHN LENNON OVERDOSE TRAGEDY”, “BEATLE LENNON DEAD AT 40” are the headlines the next day; and it’s still a shocking worldwide tragedy, but not such a completely shocking, attention-grabbing event as a celebrity *murder*,  not in a culture where pop musicians die of drug/alcohol deaths on a regular basis*.

(*Darby Crash of punk rockers The Germs fatally overdosed on heroin on December 7th of 1980, in fact; and 60s guitar legend Mike Bloomfield would likewise succumb a few months later)

  

Actually his favorite artist was Todd Rundgren. It’s not true that he had Beatles tapes on him.

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8 July 2023
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Expert Textpert said

 

Actually his favorite artist was Todd Rundgren. It’s not true that he had Beatles tapes on him.

  

Yeah, I’ve read of his Todd fanship.

Paul: Yeah well… first of all, we’re bringing out a ‘Stamp Out Detroit’ campaign.

         

8 July 2023
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BB is almost as good as Twitter or Paltalk in terms of expending lots of time and effort on certain discussion and getting virtually no responses lol

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Now today I find, you have changed your mind

8 July 2023
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Sea Belt said
BB is almost as good as Twitter or Paltalk in terms of expending lots of time and effort on certain discussion and getting virtually no responses lol

  

Well, if you want answers about MK ULTRA or how to turn your neighbour, cousin, or youngest brother, into a manchurian candidate…or how to use catcher in the rye to trigger your teacher to approve your exams then you’re looking in the wrong places

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9 July 2023
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I wasn’t seeking instructions on how to program an assassin. I’m probing the issue, and the logic of conspiracy theory.  My one fault in this regard, I suppose, is that in my years-long (if not decades-long) quest to find intelligent discussion/conversation online, I continue trying, when the relatively meager results should have disabused me of this quest long ago.  It hasn’t been an utter desert; there have been a few tiny islands of moments Now And Then over the years when I enjoyed intellectual stimulation online — but overall, teetering on the edge of being too few and far between.

Now today I find, you have changed your mind

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