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Does anyone think there was anything suspicious about John Lennon's murder?
8 June 2023
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Sea Belt
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I agree that there’s nothing inherently wrong with circumstantial evidence per se, but when that’s all one has one needs to express tentative conclusions. In court cases, reliance on it is often a necessity for a verdict, but that doesn’t mean it’s necessarily more persuasive than it is.  When it comes to any conspiracy theory, I believe in incorporating questions about the conspirators and their motives and sifting out what makes sense from what doesn’t.  Sure, it’s possible they used Chapman as a patsy but didn’t have enough power over him to recruit him to do his own leg-work establishing himself as a weirdo leading up to the day; but it seems odd they would resort to this, or even that they would feel they have to.  The less control they had over him, the less plausible it is that he would be at the right place at the right time with a gun; but the more control they had over him, the less plausible it is they would need “doubles”. 

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14 June 2023
4.37am
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I don’t think there was any sort of conspiracy involved with Lennon’s murder, but I will admit there was some potential motive there for the government to want to get rid of him.  

14 June 2023
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Into the Sky with Diamonds
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@DavidWhelan I’d love to hear your response to the Chapman postings I put up on May 19. 

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15 June 2023
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Into the Sky with Diamonds said
@DavidWhelan I’d love to hear your response to the Chapman postings I put up on May 19. 

  

One problem with conspiracy theory is that any contrary data can be explained by the conspiracy.

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15 June 2023
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Yes, I think the murder is suspicious. Not only did John have dreams and premonitions of it, but he was quoted as saying “if something happens to me or Yoko, it wasn’t an accident.” And he reportedly said something shocking on tape the day of his death, which was subsequently erased by his record producer and never revealed.

Also, there are many unexplained discrepancies in the Chapman narrative that have been pointed out in the book, Who Killed John Lennon ?

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15 June 2023
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Timothy
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Expert Textpert said
And he reportedly said something shocking on tape the day of his death, which was subsequently erased by his record producer and never revealed.  

Very interesting. I wonder what he could have said that warranted deletion?

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15 June 2023
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Timothy said

Expert Textpert said

And he reportedly said something shocking on tape the day of his death, which was subsequently erased by his record producer and never revealed.  

Very interesting. I wonder what he could have said that warranted deletion?

  

I have no idea. Jack Douglas will probably take it to his grave. It really bothers me.

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15 June 2023
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@Expert Textpert “And he reportedly said something shocking on tape the day of his death, which was subsequently erased by his record producer and never revealed.”

Who “reportedly” said this?

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15 June 2023
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Interestingly, Chapman was apprehended with a copy of Catcher in the Rye. The would-be assassin of Reagan had a copy in his hotel room, and Oswald’s assassination of JFK is also thought to be connected to the book.

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15 June 2023
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Into the Sky with Diamonds said
@Expert Textpert “And he reportedly said something shocking on tape the day of his death, which was subsequently erased by his record producer and never revealed.”

Who “reportedly” said this?

  

Jack Douglas himself said it. It’s been a while so I don’t remember where, but I think it’s on video. It’s been discussed on this forum before.

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15 June 2023
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Into the Sky with Diamonds said
@Expert Textpert “And he reportedly said something shocking on tape the day of his death, which was subsequently erased by his record producer and never revealed.”

Who “reportedly” said this?

  

John Lennon reportedly said it (the thing that Jack Douglas erased). Jack Douglas definitely reported it and admitted that he erased it.

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15 June 2023
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Jack Douglas erased Lennon’s Comments : https://www.beatlesbible.com/f…..-comments/

@Into the Sky with Diamonds and @Expert Textpert 

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15 June 2023
10.22pm
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Timothy
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An interesting thread to read. We’ll never know what was said, but I’m leaning on the side of John making a statement about dying, and being quite accurate about what happened and when. 

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16 June 2023
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Timothy said
An interesting thread to read. We’ll never know what was said, but I’m leaning on the side of John making a statement about dying, and being quite accurate about what happened and when. 

  

@Timothy, if I recall correctly, Fred Seaman wrote in his memoir that John seemed preoccupied with the idea that he would suffer some kind of karmic retribution. 

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16 June 2023
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Into the Sky with Diamonds said
@Expert Textpert “And he reportedly said something shocking on tape the day of his death, which was subsequently erased by his record producer and never revealed.”

Who “reportedly” said this?

  

Conspiracy theory rhetoric tends to indulge in rhetoric like “reportedly”, weaving a tissue of suggestive innuendo that can have a mesmerizing effect on a reader lulling them into thinking an actual thing or event is being described when if you peel the rhetoric back, it’s all supposition & speculation.  What may be ironic is that I say this counting myself as a conspiracy theorist!

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16 June 2023
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Ahhh Girl said
Jack Douglas erased Lennon’s Comments : https://www.beatlesbible.com/f…..-comments/

@Into the Sky with Diamonds and @Expert Textpert 

  

Ahhh Girl’s helpful link leads to an interesting discussion, but to me the last post is crucial — and nobody answered the question (bolded by me), even 13 years later:

I’m sorry skye but you are reading too much into this. This interview is not contributing anything to the question posed in this thread, not that it was not good to see this (it was new to me) but imho, we are where we were before.

Does anyone have a copy of the Goldmine interview and can confirm that the quote is in fact in there?

 

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16 June 2023
9.42am
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Some more speculation:  the supposed last words of John, being cryptic and being John, have limited possible reasons:

1. a vague drug-induced gloomy foreboding based on nothing more than his internal turmoil and maybe a spate of dark depression

2. a supernatural premonition of a lone psychopath who would kill him in the near future

3. his knowledge of an impending assassination conspiracy.

Given the supposedly cryptic nature of the alleged last words, #3 is possible only if John was afraid of spelling it out more clearly, so he remained cryptic about it. If so, Douglas supposedly erasing the tape makes him either afraid for his own life or part of the conspiracy.  #2 may be more likely, except it requires belief in supernatural prognostication. #1 is the most likely “natural” explanation — except Douglas erasing it becomes more puzzling. 

Or a #4 — John’s last words were about something else entirely, but that something else is so sensitive a subject Douglas didn’t want it getting out.

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16 June 2023
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Expert Textpert said

Timothy said

An interesting thread to read. We’ll never know what was said, but I’m leaning on the side of John making a statement about dying, and being quite accurate about what happened and when. 

  

@Timothy, if I recall correctly, Fred Seaman wrote in his memoir that John seemed preoccupied with the idea that he would suffer some kind of karmic retribution. 

  

When I explored John’s death in detail years back I was struck by this. Death is getting out of one car and into another. Saying his work won’t be one piece until I’m dead and buried and I hope that’s a long, long time. I feel like getting a list of these strange premonition type things. At the very least it’s ironic, especially the whole life begins at 40 theme he had going. 

In any case, I don’t like Fred deleting the comment, no matter how it made him feel. Actually going back after the murder, listening to John’s voice, and deleting that part, is almost akin to deleting part of John’s soul. That’s how I feel about it anyway. He said what he said on that day and it should have been let to stand. 

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16 June 2023
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Sea Belt said

Into the Sky with Diamonds said

@Expert Textpert “And he reportedly said something shocking on tape the day of his death, which was subsequently erased by his record producer and never revealed.”

Who “reportedly” said this?

  

Conspiracy theory rhetoric tends to indulge in rhetoric like “reportedly”, weaving a tissue of suggestive innuendo that can have a mesmerizing effect on a reader lulling them into thinking an actual thing or event is being described when if you peel the rhetoric back, it’s all supposition & speculation.  What may be ironic is that I say this counting myself as a conspiracy theorist!

  

My sentence was sort of taken out of context to make it look like I was suggesting something. I used the word because what Lennon said was erased, so we have to go by what Douglas reported. Into the Sky made it look like I was saying that all of this was reportedly said by someone, when in fact I have seen footage of Douglas saying it.

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16 June 2023
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Expert Textpert said
 

Also, there are many unexplained discrepancies in the Chapman narrative that have been pointed out in the book, Who Killed John Lennon ?

  

I haven’t read that book. Found it online and it’s been quite an interesting read.

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