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Did Yoko love John?
20 July 2020
12.57pm
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Expert Textpert
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Rishikesh
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You too. You can go on safely making fun of Yoko knowing that you are in the majority since humans as a race are a disappointing lot.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

20 July 2020
12.58pm
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Jules
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KyleKartan said
Maybe we should stop this here and move on. I suggest if you have any problems with me move it to the pm because that thread no place for fighting. And I didnt meant to fight at all or offend you and your views in any way.

I second this.

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20 July 2020
1.05pm
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I third it.

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"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

20 July 2020
5.58pm
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Ahhh Girl
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Yes, there is a Yoko's music thread if her music is the theme of your post. Her music and artistry can get tangled up in relationship to her relationship to John and why some people *think* she loved him. There's such a fine line in dividing out aspects of johnandyoko - hey, it just occurred to me that they didn't even divide aspects of themselves when they used johnandyoko. Everything about them was intertwined. Not saying that we will, but I wonder if we should have only 2 Yoko threads - the appreciation one and a catch-all one.

For the record, I don't think all people who dislike Yoko's music and art are racists and/or bigots. They just don't like what she has put on offer. People enjoy what they enjoy. I enjoy The Beatles as all of you do.

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KyleKartan, Beatlebug
20 July 2020
6.06pm
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I don’t think that all people who dislike her music or art are racists or misogynists either. But this person saying she should shut up because she isn’t an artist or musician seemed wrong to me. She is both and she can be where she wants and say what she wants.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

20 July 2020
6.35pm
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Ron Nasty
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I think the problem with this thread is really the title and its implicit meaning, Did Yoko Love John?, and if she didn't she spent 12/13 years manipulating and deluding John for the influence and wealth he could offer her. Whatever people think of her artistically or as a person, you've got to have a helluva lotta proof to prove she didn't love John. Easy to show there were times she wasn't in love with John, just as it's easy to show John wasn't always in love with her as much as he proclaimed. But to suggest she never loved John in all those years is as ridiculous as she always loved him, as anyone else who's ever been in a relationship knows.

You need some heavyweight ammunition to show Yoko didn't love John, something nobody ever comes up with, just reasons why they don't love her or her impact on John, which is just a way of slamming her, not proof in any kind of way she didn't love John.

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20 July 2020
7.46pm
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I agree, @Ron Nasty. I started this thread because I was grappling with my notions about John and Yoko. I had just read Seaman's book and he was poking holes in the myth that Yoko had created for me. I started to think, wait a minute, is all this a manufactured image? Were they really not in love? I sort of came to terms with the fact that the created image can be just as real as the dirty details. I see the johnandyoko myth as something that grew out of their relationship, and something that we can believe in, to inspire us to "imagine."

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

20 July 2020
9.27pm
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Ahhh Girl
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If I had been the Yoko fan who was responding to KyleKartan's post, I would have simply pointed out that Yoko was an established artist in her own right (in some circles, and that I dig her products) and left out questioning him about being having lowly motives in his assessment of how he views Yoko's behavior at times. I think there would have been a much more in depth, constructive conversation that followed. That might not have been a perfect response, but that is what I would have done. If someone were truly racist or misogynistic toward Yoko, their true colors would have ended up showing at some point.

I welcome conversation from anyone who thinks Yoko loved John with pure motives AND anyone who thinks her "love" for him was based on ulterior motives. Let all opinions be shared.

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KyleKartan, Beatlebug
20 July 2020
10.33pm
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@Ahhh Girl 

I’m curious if you would be okay with  someone coming on the forum and denigrating Paul McCartney and posting videos meant to make fun of him?

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

21 July 2020
2.23am
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KyleKartan
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Expert Textpert said
@Ahhh Girl 

I’m curious if you would be okay with  someone coming on the forum and denigrating Paul McCartney and posting videos meant to make fun of him?

  

Oh my god. Cut if out already. The Video was funny because of Berrys wide eyes when Yoko started doing her thing. I didnt say: listen to her and laugh your head off. It was reaction of Berry that made it funny for me.

Why do you take such an offense in someone not liking her? I said we stop here and go on PM if we want to sort this out and you agreed. Now you go on here.

Iam pretty sure there lots of Videos about Paul McCartney where we could have a good laugh over him...and he'd be the first to laugh about them. I do laugh too over the whole Paul is Dead conspiracy and the People who are beliving that myth. I hope that is ok for you.

Seriously can we stop this now. I apologize if I did hurt your Feelings or insulted Yoko Ono and offended you by it. If you want to continue beating me up I'd considering deleating my account here because I dont want and dont need that drama.

For the Benefit of Mr. Kyle

                                                                       

21 July 2020
7.07am
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Joe
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KyleKartan said

Seriously can we stop this now. I apologize if I did hurt your Feelings or insulted Yoko Ono and offended you by it. If you want to continue beating me up I'd considering deleating my account here because I dont want and dont need that drama.

Yes, please do stop it now, or the thread will be locked. I know threads often lose their initial focus, but this has turned into a meta-thread, with discussions about other people's personalities, fairly hostile accusations, and has very little to do with the original subject. Please consider this a line in the sand. Move on, or the discussion will be ended.

stay-on-topic

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21 July 2020
7.21am
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Ahhh Girl
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I will make this one more response before shushing on the topic. At one point. I sent an email to the mods about shutting down all PID talk on the forum. They helped me see that shutting down anyone who brings it up isn't the way to go. We should just be polite in rebuking their arguments using facts. We know we may not change their minds, but we don't have to go hating the person or their rubbish opinion. That could be your approach with Yoko conversations. 

OK, to be truthful, I abhor the pictures that show Paul as a girl. I wonder who posted one of those recently. I was very upset about that dude who insisted that Paul was mean at one of his concerts. I want to put two middle fingers up at John Lennon for calling some of Paul's songs "granny shit music." Not nice, Lennon. I could go on. However, I care more about the people (well, most of them) on the forum than I do their opinions, so i don't use words that incite or hurt. I want peace and love and good back and forth discussion about the Beatles while I'm on the forum. 

Oh yeah. Anyone who goes hatin' on Paul's voice now and says he needs to retire can go jump in a lake of fire.

I better stop pointing out all the ways people hate on Paul that makes me angry so my blood pressure doesn't spike.

Edit: I didn't see Joe's post before making this post.

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KyleKartan, Beatlebug
21 July 2020
8.43am
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Okay, I will drop it. Perhaps I was not so angry at @KyleKartan as at every person who makes the same tired, old arguments against Yoko. It really gets infuriating after a while and I guess I lost my temper. Carry on.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

21 July 2020
9.05am
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Ahhh Girl
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If we had a "questions you would ask Yoko if you got a chance" thread, we could all ask her if she really love John.  Somehow I just know her answered would be so creative. Dang, now I really want to ask her.

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21 July 2020
12.56pm
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Little Piggy Dragonguy
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If you could ask her anything, why would you ask something that you already know what her answer will be?

If Yoko didn't love John and she was just some leech that needed his fame to obtain it herself, then her admitting that would ruin this scheme she's been playing for the past 50+ years. Not only that, but it would hurt her son. Another thing to consider is that even if that was her initial plan, it is possible that she ended up falling in love with him, or that she just always loved him. In no scenario would it make sense for her to say she didn't love him. 

I wanna know what she did to age so well. She does not look like she's 87 years old. 

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All living things must abide by the laws of the shape they inhabit 

21 July 2020
2.17pm
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Ahhh Girl said
If we had a "questions you would ask Yoko if you got a chance" thread, we could all ask her if she really love John.  Somehow I just know her answered would be so creative. Dang, now I really want to ask her.

  

I'd ask her if she had seen that Chuck Berry clip. 

 

Anyway...the picture many people paint of Yoko as a greedy careerist interloper who broke up the Beatles often feels racist and sexist. I'm quite sure their relationship was complicated, not as simple as "true love forever" OR "rip-off artist stealing John's fortune." There was absolutely some deep, imperfect love. There were good times and bad times. Yoko was amazing and horrible. No person is always any one thing and no relationship is static. Yoko's art was often cutting edge, not everybody likes that sort of thing. Was everything she did great? Definitely not. Was some of it very cool and influential? Definitely. Does not liking it make you a racist? Not by itself...

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21 July 2020
3.24pm
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Ahhh Girl
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No, I think she would say she did. And I think the answer would be so cool and creative. That's what I want to hear.

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