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Did Yoko love John?
20 July 2020
3.31am
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Jules
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@Expert Textpert said
In general, people who don’t like Yoko are unimaginative boomers who don’t understand cutting edge music. Many younger indie artists today have been inspired by Yoko. Yoko was ahead of her time.

And what does that make people who do like Yoko? Edgy open-minded lords of musical knowledge and exprimentation? Who will breathe textured sounds of psychedelia and noise into the stratosphere with the size of their massive brains which barely can contain their colossal superior intellect? People who like stuff is people who like stuff and people who dislike stuff is people who dislike stuff. Cut it out.

I am aware of Yoko’s influence on the indie scene in general. Personally no I’m not into her artistic off-spring and being into it which many people are is completely fine by me. Appreciating Yoko’s art is one thing (which most people don’t), but her influence is that to be compared of how The Shaggs influenced Nirvana, it has only helped a bit in making the music of the next generation slightly weirder. And I personally would’ve been completely fine without it.

Admit that you don’t like noise rock or avant-garde or whatever, but when you start making fun of Yoko, yes you are being misogynistic or racist. John was not putting you on. He thought Yoko’s music was good and he was right.

Making fun of Yoko without making fun of, on the basis of, or with something related to, her race or gender, most likely won’t be neither racist nor sexist, I believe.

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the twist

20 July 2020
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A reminder to all to please be respectful and courteous when posting, especially when disagreeing with another forum member. It is perfectly ok to disagree with someone – without it the world would be a boring place, but if people aren’t being respectful when doing so, the mods will look at locking this thread for a while.

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20 July 2020
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@The Hole Got Fixed

 

Didnt mean to offend or be disrespectful to someone. I honestly think not even Yoko Ono herself would have been insulted by my opinion. Iam just a Nowhere Man ..

 

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20 July 2020
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If you find a post is objectionable, report it so things don’t drag on yeh. 

https://youtu.be/52nwiTs7bk8

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20 July 2020
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Little Piggy Dragonguy
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Starr Shine? said
If you find a post is objectionable, report it so things don’t drag on yeh. 

That sounds a bit unnecessary. Every post on the forum would end up being reported. 

All living things must abide by the laws of the shape they inhabit 

20 July 2020
8.42am
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The original comment to which I responded said Yoko was not being told to sit down and shut up because she’s a woman but because she’s not an artist or musician.

Everything about that statement is offensive. She is demonstrably both an artist and musician. To repeatedly claim that she is not denies facts. To deny those facts and to use your denial as cover for not being misogynistic or racist says to me that you are either being misogynistic or racist. Why else would you say that a Japanese woman artist and musician is neither an artist or musician, and then go to great lengths to defend your denial? And why then are you telling a Japanese woman to shut up and sit down?

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20 July 2020
8.46am
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And why am I not surprised that @The Hole Got Fixed is telling me I’m wrong? This is the same moderator who says straight men are not allowed to discuss John’s bisexuality. I’m sure he would love to lock one of my “ridiculous” threads.

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20 July 2020
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And comparing Yoko to The Shaggs is an obvious insult. You are insulting John too. He did his best guitar work on those records.

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20 July 2020
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I’m just tired of being a Beatles fan if it means I have to accept others making fun of a woman. That’s not right. You can say you don’t like the music, but those who post videos for laughs are going too far. I’m sick of seeing people post that stupid video as evidence that Yoko needs to shut up. It’s offensive.

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20 July 2020
9.26am
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Jules
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@Expert Textpert said
The original comment to which I responded said Yoko was not being told to sit down and shut up because she’s a woman but because she’s not an artist or musician. Everything about that statement is offensive. She is demonstrably both an artist and musician. To repeatedly claim that she is not denies facts. To deny those facts and to use your denial as cover for not being misogynistic or racist says to me that you are either being misogynistic or racist. Why else would you say that a Japanese woman artist and musician is neither an artist or musician, and then go to great lengths to defend your denial? And why then are you telling a Japanese woman to shut up and sit down?

I wouldn’t say she’s not an artist or a musician, but if she was one with integrity she would’ve shut up in the presence of someone like Berry.

He’s not telling a Japanese woman to sit down and shut up, he’s telling a person. Whatever discriminatory context seems to have been added by you.

And comparing Yoko to The Shaggs is an obvious insult. You are insulting John too. He did his best guitar work on those records.

Uh the Shaggs is the greatest rock band of all time m8. Oh come on you know I didn’t mean it that way, I’m just saying the inherent enjoyability of the avant-garde depends on novelty, and not really on wether it sounds actually good. Yoko has always struck me as one of them artists that takes advantage of the fact she doesn’t have to be talented, only strange. Now take the fact she’s John Lennon ‘s wife into account, and it only makes it even more questionable. Although I do agree John is the best thing about Yoko’s music. At least she got some decent instrumentals once in a while, until, well, she started singing.

I’m just tired of being a Beatles fan if it means I have to accept others making fun of a woman. That’s not right. You can say you don’t like the music, but those who post videos for laughs are going too far. I’m sick of seeing people post that stupid video as evidence that Yoko needs to shut up. It’s offensive.

I’ve also seen that video everywhere and it may be a tired argument. She still was disrespectful and it has nothing to do with her race or gender as far as I’m concerned. To me she was just obnoxious because that’s the way she was. It only says something about you if you interpret everything to be a bigoted attack on someone when they haven’t mentioned or even made an allusion to the fact someone’s a minority.

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20 July 2020
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If she was a “novelty” then how did she manage to invent an entire genre of music? Sounds more like a genius to me. If Chuck Berry doesn’t understand her music then he must be too old school just like you.

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20 July 2020
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Expert Textpert said
If she was a “novelty” then how did she manage to invent an entire genre of music? Sounds more like a genius to me. If Chuck Berry doesn’t understand her music then he must be too old school just like you.

Fine but what is she doing shoving her genius invented genre in a rockabilly concert? If you’ve ever been in a group of any people ever, it should be no surprise to you that the people who do uncalled self-centered stuff like that are the ones nobody wants to hang out with.

Besides inventing a genre can be considered “novelty”. If the genre happens to suck then no you are not a genius. I can record my farts and loop them with hip hop beats, now you have fart-hop. Call me a genius.

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20 July 2020
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I guess moderators only care that discussions are in the wrong place if it suits them. @Ahhh Girl can we move this discussion to the thread on Yoko’s music? It doesn’t belong here.

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20 July 2020
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Expert Textpert said
And why am I not surprised that @The Hole Got Fixed is telling me I’m wrong? This is the same moderator who says straight men are not allowed to discuss John’s bisexuality. I’m sure he would love to lock one of my “ridiculous” threads.

  

Well that’s not correct. The thread was discussed by the mods and it was agreed that due to the content of the posts we would lock it to take some of the heat out if folk didn’t reign in their posts. One of the forum rules is to be courteous and respectful to others when posting regardless of whether you agree or not with each other, don’t follow that rule and we will step in. That’s not down to a mod deciding, it’s a fundamental rule of the forum and what was posted by THGF has been implemented previously.  
If you must know, it was me who said tell them to be mindful of what is said or lock the thread. THGF posted on here as the other mods are otherwise engaged. Me. I’m currently working. 

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20 July 2020
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Expert Textpert said
I guess moderators only care that discussions are in the wrong place if it suits them. @Ahhh Girl can we move this discussion to the thread on Yoko’s music? It doesn’t belong here.

  

That’s not true either, we would prefer not to move posts at will or just jump in so conversations aren’t cut up. The current conversation on here seems to have moved naturally and so it may be better to ask folk to stay on topic. It’s also possible for non-mods to say “please stay on topic”.

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris)

20 July 2020
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Jules said

Expert Textpert said

If she was a “novelty” then how did she manage to invent an entire genre of music? Sounds more like a genius to me. If Chuck Berry doesn’t understand her music then he must be too old school just like you.

Fine but what is she doing shoving her genius invented genre in a rockabilly concert? If you’ve ever been in a group of any people ever, it should be no surprise to you that the people who do uncalled self-centered stuff like that are the ones nobody wants to hang out with.

Besides inventing a genre can be considered “novelty”. If the genre happens to suck then no you are not a genius. I can record my farts and loop them with hip hop beats, now you have fart-hop. Call me a genius.


  

@Jules only if your farting were the inspiration to an entire generation of musicians and thousands of albums were created and bought because of your farts could you make that argument.

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20 July 2020
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meanmistermustard said

Expert Textpert said

I guess moderators only care that discussions are in the wrong place if it suits them. @Ahhh Girl can we move this discussion to the thread on Yoko’s music? It doesn’t belong here.

  

That’s not true either, we would prefer not to move posts at will or just jump in so conversations aren’t cut up. The current conversation on here seems to have moved naturally and so it may be better to ask folk to stay on topic. It’s also possible for non-mods to say “please stay on topic”.

  

You’re the moderator. But from my end it looks as though posts and conversations are moved constantly, sometimes quite unnecessarily.

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20 July 2020
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We do try to explain why posts are moved, a lot of the time it’s due to duplicate threads and it can cause confusion having two or more open threads discussing the same topic. No doubt we could do better at times tho in explaining why. It’s why we would appreciate feedback on what we do; if not happy with what we do or it’s not clear why an action has been carried out (or not) then please ask. I’d be disappointed if people didn’t feel we could be approached. 
Not sure about how often conversations are moved but I’m willing to again say we could no doubt do better in explaining why at times. Again, any issues or uncertainly please ask, either at the time in the thread or via PM. 

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20 July 2020
11.20am
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Jules
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Expert Textpert said

Jules said

Expert Textpert said

If she was a “novelty” then how did she manage to invent an entire genre of music? Sounds more like a genius to me. If Chuck Berry doesn’t understand her music then he must be too old school just like you.

Fine but what is she doing shoving her genius invented genre in a rockabilly concert? If you’ve ever been in a group of any people ever, it should be no surprise to you that the people who do uncalled self-centered stuff like that are the ones nobody wants to hang out with.

Besides inventing a genre can be considered “novelty”. If the genre happens to suck then no you are not a genius. I can record my farts and loop them with hip hop beats, now you have fart-hop. Call me a genius.

@Jules only if your farting were the inspiration to an entire generation of musicians and thousands of albums were created and bought because of your farts could you make that argument.

Also I’m married to Dusty Springfield.

Look, however influential you are is not what defines a genius. Influence can be accidental or undeserved. It also doesn’t make her anymore likeable or listenable.

Case and point, The Shaggs.

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20 July 2020
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Expert Textpert said
The original comment to which I responded said Yoko was not being told to sit down and shut up because she’s a woman but because she’s not an artist or musician.

Everything about that statement is offensive. She is demonstrably both an artist and musician. To repeatedly claim that she is not denies facts. To deny those facts and to use your denial as cover for not being misogynistic or racist says to me that you are either being misogynistic or racist. Why else would you say that a Japanese woman artist and musician is neither an artist or musician, and then go to great lengths to defend your denial? And why then are you telling a Japanese woman to shut up and sit down?

  

I didnt say that. I said she should have stayed quiet not that anybody should tell her. I said too that at least she should have showed respect to them and if she felt the need to give her feedback and opinion she should have done it in a more subtle way.

I also didnt say that she wasnt an artist. Maybe I should have been more clear with that sentence:

For me she was acting as if she knew what art was (…)

I was meaning by that sentence that for me it seemed as if she viewed herself as the ultimate artist and anybody else was below her. That was my impression.

But you made your mind up about me. So where is the use in discussing it anymore. You dont get onto my arguments I made after your first claim but still beat on me. Thats fair I guess. Maybe we should stop this here and move on. I suggest if you have any problems with me move it to the pm because that thread no place for fighting. And I didnt meant to fight at all or offend you and your views in any way.

Have a good day.

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