Please consider registering
Guest
sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_Feed sp_TopicIcon
Did Yoko love John?
12 February 2018
10.31am
Avatar
Expert Textpert
In bed.
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4644
Member Since:
18 April 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
521sp_Permalink sp_Print

Is this the same thing that is being called annoying in the gay thread? It doesn’t annoy me.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

6 April 2020
7.30pm
Avatar
Expert Textpert
In bed.
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4644
Member Since:
18 April 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Not sure what that previous post even refers to.

Anyway, I now have some further perspective on one thing discussed in this thread—Seaman’s accusation that John needing an appointment to see his own wife somehow meant she didn’t love him.

That’s a pretty sexist comment, and I understand why because my wife works from home like Yoko did and uses an office upstairs, and I, like John in the Dakota period, don’t work and supervise things that happen around the house. 

And guess what? On some days I basically need an appointment to see my wife. If she’s in a business meeting I can’t walk in until the meeting is over. Common sense, really.

The following people thank Expert Textpert for this post:

The Hole Got Fixed, lovelyritametermaid, Beatlebug, Timothy, WeepingAtlasCedars, Vera Chuck and Dave, Ahhh Girl

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

6 April 2020
10.31pm
Avatar
Little Piggy Dragonguy
Nowhere Land
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 3882
Member Since:
5 November 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
523sp_Permalink sp_Print

I think the problem with the question this thread is asking is that different people love differently and expect all love to fit in with their perception of how love "should" look. Due to this, they view things that don't fit in with their perception of love as not being true love. The only person who can truly say whether or not Yoko loved John is Yoko. 

The following people thank Little Piggy Dragonguy for this post:

Beatlebug, Vera Chuck and Dave, lovelyritametermaid, Getbackintheussr

All living things must abide by the laws of the shape they inhabit 

7 April 2020
9.22am
Avatar
lovelyritametermaid
You can meet me after heavy rain has fallen
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1389
Member Since:
5 December 2019
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
524sp_Permalink sp_Print

Little Piggy Dragonguy said
I think the problem with the question this thread is asking is that different people love differently and expect all love to fit in with their perception of how love "should" look. Due to this, they view things that don't fit in with their perception of love as not being true love. The only person who can truly say whether or not Yoko loved John is Yoko. 

a-hard-days-night-ringo-8 Where's the lie? These are facts. a-hard-days-night-ringo-8

The following people thank lovelyritametermaid for this post:

Vera Chuck and Dave

"....When I cannot sing my heart, I can only speak my mind...." 

"....This ain't no party, this ain't no disco, this ain't no fooling around...."

  StarSpangledBanner-1.png              #BlackLivesMatter

9 April 2020
3.23pm
Avatar
50yearslate
Playing on the roofs again
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 8592
Member Since:
15 November 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
525sp_Permalink sp_Print

This seems like a ridiculous thread. We're not Yoko and we can't answer this question. I don't see why it warrants so much discussion.

The following people thank 50yearslate for this post:

lovelyritametermaid, The Hole Got Fixed, Getbackintheussr, Vera Chuck and Dave, WeepingAtlasCedars, Jules

Love one another.

- - -

(I'm Fiddy, not Walrian)

- - -

2018:IMG_3980.PNG 2019: 00A040E0-7F67-413C-9CAB-AB4C27EB864A.png

9 April 2020
3.29pm
Avatar
Beatlebug
Find me where ye echo lays
Moderator

Moderators
Forum Posts: 17260
Member Since:
15 February 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
526sp_Permalink sp_Print

We Biblers love to natter endlessly about e v e r y t h i n g Beatles apparently

The following people thank Beatlebug for this post:

lovelyritametermaid, Getbackintheussr, WeepingAtlasCedars

~ Ram On ~
New to Forumpool? You can introduce yourself here.
ScotsIrishFlag-1.jpeg Blueberries1.png Vietnam Heritage and Freedom Flag
StarSpangledBanner.png

9 April 2020
4.20pm
Avatar
Expert Textpert
In bed.
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4644
Member Since:
18 April 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
527sp_Permalink sp_Print

50yearslate said
This seems like a ridiculous thread. We're not Yoko and we can't answer this question. I don't see why it warrants so much discussion.

  

Have you seen my other masterpiece, “Did John Lennon Have Gay Leanings?”

The following people thank Expert Textpert for this post:

Beatlebug, lovelyritametermaid, WeepingAtlasCedars

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

9 April 2020
7.18pm
Avatar
50yearslate
Playing on the roofs again
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 8592
Member Since:
15 November 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
528sp_Permalink sp_Print

Expert Textpert said

50yearslate said

This seems like a ridiculous thread. We're not Yoko and we can't answer this question. I don't see why it warrants so much discussion.

  

Have you seen my other masterpiece, “Did John Lennon Have Gay Leanings?”

  

I have not

Love one another.

- - -

(I'm Fiddy, not Walrian)

- - -

2018:IMG_3980.PNG 2019: 00A040E0-7F67-413C-9CAB-AB4C27EB864A.png

9 April 2020
10.42pm
Avatar
Expert Textpert
In bed.
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4644
Member Since:
18 April 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
529sp_Permalink sp_Print

50yearslate said

Expert Textpert said

50yearslate said

This seems like a ridiculous thread. We're not Yoko and we can't answer this question. I don't see why it warrants so much discussion.

  

Have you seen my other masterpiece, “Did John Lennon Have Gay Leanings?”

  

I have not

  

The answer is yes he did 

The following people thank Expert Textpert for this post:

lovelyritametermaid, Jules

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

10 April 2020
1.00pm
Avatar
50yearslate
Playing on the roofs again
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 8592
Member Since:
15 November 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
530sp_Permalink sp_Print

Expert Textpert said

50yearslate said

Expert Textpert said

50yearslate said

This seems like a ridiculous thread. We're not Yoko and we can't answer this question. I don't see why it warrants so much discussion.

  

Have you seen my other masterpiece, “Did John Lennon Have Gay Leanings?”

  

I have not

  

The answer is yes he did 

  

I didn't ask...

Love one another.

- - -

(I'm Fiddy, not Walrian)

- - -

2018:IMG_3980.PNG 2019: 00A040E0-7F67-413C-9CAB-AB4C27EB864A.png

10 April 2020
2.30pm
Avatar
meanmistermustard
Here when I am. Not when I am not.
Moderator
Members

Reviewers


Moderators
Forum Posts: 23245
Member Since:
1 May 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
531sp_Permalink sp_Print

The real question is which John?

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris)

10 April 2020
6.26pm
Avatar
Expert Textpert
In bed.
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4644
Member Since:
18 April 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
532sp_Permalink sp_Print

meanmistermustard said
The real question is which John?

  

Long gone John?

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

10 April 2020
11.47pm
Avatar
Jules
In your wildest dreams
Carnegie Hall
Members
Forum Posts: 622
Member Since:
8 August 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

50yearslate said
This seems like a ridiculous thread. We're not Yoko and we can't answer this question. I don't see why it warrants so much discussion.

I'm not going to support the claim that any thread can be ridiculous, just because I think any conversation can evolve into interesting material given the right pace and tone. But I will agree questioning whatever love any person holds for the other is kind of pointless. For the simple reason that the expression of love is a very personal thing to do. It depends a lot in what type of person you are, what kind of culture you were raised with and what type of love is it. There is unconditional love, conditional love, long lasting, rushed, premature, motherly, friendship love, and in between those there's a whole spectrum of highs and lows, plus time. Love evolves, changes, it stops, then it comes back, maybe bigger, maybe smaller, then maybe it goes again. Love isn't a static, on/off quality of care, that is a child's idea of human relationships.

The point is, whatever relationship Yoko and John had, if they both claim it wasn't more than just love for one another and admiration for one another, and also taking into account how much time they spent together and projects they shared (including music and activism), at some point was, in some sense, desired and granted. It seems that even if you could prove one didn't love the other, you still could not judge the type of bonding they had, because that is something only the two of them knew fully.

And look, I myself have had my issues with Yoko too, mainly her music (that I just can't enjoy) and abrupt intrusion into the performing scene and the lack of self awareness she had sometimes, and I've had my doubts about her intentions, mostly regarding Julian, but the truth is it doesn't matter. John seemed happy, and most likely Yoko was too. But if Yoko just seems different it probably has to do with personal experiences she had in her life, her upbringing, her clash with fame as well... Maybe you can judge her actions but you can't judge her feelings. I think our grasp into what was/is going on in her mind is too far from our understanding to start judging if she "loved" the husband that, wether you like it or not, she stood by for the better part of a decadeahdn_paul_06

The following people thank Jules for this post:

Beatlebug

the watusi

 

the twist

19 July 2020
1.23am
Avatar
KyleKartan
Germany
Casbah Coffee Club
Members
Forum Posts: 19
Member Since:
3 July 2020
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
534sp_Permalink sp_Print

I've read through much of the treat and read many opinion...pro and contra Yoko Ono.

I myself am no fan of her. She certainly is not the single reason for the breakup but she played a role IMO. I think it was intended by John for to do so even if it was unconscious. What I really dont like about her is the way she was acting as an equal of John and the other 3. For me she was acting as if she knew what art was and I find that offensive against the Beatles and their artistic accomblishments. And I can understand that Paul, George and Ringo were annoyed of her. The studio wasnt her place and her feedback wasnt asked for by them. I remember watching the Let it Be movie when it was still available on Youtube (like 8 years ago) and seeing her sitting there all the time watching and talking with John in whispers as if they conspired in any way was so weird and strange. I think that it would have been ok for her to be around from time to time if they needed to be together so much. But if that was the case she should have kept quiet or at least be subtle in her feedback and opinion. Thats nothing about her beeing a woman but about her not beeing a musician and beeing respectfull to the greatest band of the world. But like I said I think Johns plan was to "use" her to make them boys split.

I think John loved Yoko very much. Without wanting to be disrespectful but she was not the looker I'd imagine for the most popular Rock'n'Roll singer of the world. And she didnt seem that emphatic or nice eighter. John must have seen or felt something very special about her to stick with her. Many here claim it was is need of a mother and I think they have a point. Yoko was strong enough to talk him down and Iam sure he hadnt met that for a long time when his opinion was always the right one to other girls. He needed that kind of woman, someone who cared for him and gave him a fight. He didnt need a Yes Girl.

I like that John endorced and helped Yoko with her music. I think couples always should be there for each other and help each other with their work (if possible). But also they should tell each other when something isnt working. My honest opinion is that the music Yoko made was not good, especally her singing and screaming. It maybe is a certain style of art but its just annoying and awful. John was in music very much into harmonies, melodies and some of her stuff of what they did together isnt in any way Johns usual style neighter with the Beatles or solo. You can see IMO by that how much he cared for her and loved her. I have checked out many of their interviews on YT and some of them have some live performances in it. I respect him for beeing as serious and professional when they performed her stuff as he was perfoming his own. I honestly only could shake my head over her music. (if you want a laugh check out Chuck Berrys reaction to her screaming when he was perfoming Memphis Teneesee with John:

at like 1:55).

I think Yoko loved John too. I cant say for what she loved him because on the outside at first they didnt seem to fit. But John changed after meeting Yoko. His looks was very different from before (honestly sometimes you wouldnt think the 1968 John is the same person as the 1967 John, he looks so different, even his face) and his attitude changed too. I think she loved his power, him beeing so influencial and important. She loved the way he loved and needed her and how he could endorce and help her. Thats what I take from what reading about her, reading here and watching them giving interviews.

The following people thank KyleKartan for this post:

Jules

To the Benefit of Mr. Kyle

19 July 2020
10.51am
Avatar
Expert Textpert
In bed.
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4644
Member Since:
18 April 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Same old crappy arguments. “She can’t sing. She used John to get famous. Blah blah blah.”

You say she didn’t understand art but she was already an established artist before she met John. What gallery was John exhibiting his art in before he met Yoko? No gallery.

Yoko was trolling Chuck Berry and she’s trolling you.

Also “she should have kept quiet?” And you’re not saying that because she was a woman? Lol. It’s because “she’s not a musician?” She received classical training in piano and voice as a child. What does that make her?

What does that make you? Is there any racism or misogyny in your attitudes?

The following people thank Expert Textpert for this post:

Jules, Pablo Ramon

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

19 July 2020
9.06pm
Avatar
Jules
In your wildest dreams
Carnegie Hall
Members
Forum Posts: 622
Member Since:
8 August 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

She should've kept quiet out of respect for a classic musician, that is playing next to your husband who regards him as a hero, and is only giving you any credit on stage because you're the wife of this famous musician in the first place. I think she was being selfish with a complete lack of self-awareness. Yoko could've been more relaxed and maybe people wouldn't have another reason to hate her. I'm aware hating on Yoko is an old unfunny joke by now, of which some may have originated from bigotry, but that won't let her get away from behaving like a child who isn't getting attention next to one of the biggest artists of all time. That is not a matter of knowing your place as an opressed woman, it's a matter of knowing your place on stage, as a performer.

Regardless of her intentions, which can't be known, she would've been nobody if not for John. Her art was pretentious, generic and boring. She would've drowned in an ocean of the over-saturated 60s market of young doppy hippie artists nobody remembers now. That's the difference between someone like her and Tina Turner. Want to talk about women? She was actually suited to be a succesful performer, in the end rightfully outdoing her ex-husband, instead of framing him as the one responsable for people having to pretend they like shitty colateral art. The fact Yoko (and sometimes John) tried to pretend her music could be shoved through the public's throat is what has always made her seem like a gold-digger; a manipulative and dislikable person. I can't say she is, but it isn't hard to see why someone would think that, and I don't call them mysognistic or racist right away whenever someone implies it. Imagine being so weak in argument that you need to call someone a bigot just because she/he doesn't like someone who happens to be a minority.

Nobody is saying that her music is bad just because she "sung badly". She wasn't redeamable, and seemed opportunistic, unworthy, ungrateful, wasn't charismatic and not many people truly enjoyed her and her art, she was not for everybody. Yet she spent a lot of time calling the audience who didn't like her "close-minded" or "misogynists", instead of actually helping her be a better artist and public figure if she wanted the success that fucking much; if she didn't care for success, then tough luck, her art was just not that good. And it's fine otherwise, some people like to be more low-key, yet she went to a Chuck Berry concert and did that. A fucking rockabilly bit.

Trolling Chuck Berry... Nice trolling, Yoko, now everybody hates you and you've solved nothing. Get her off-stage for Christ's sake.

The following people thank Jules for this post:

KyleKartan

the watusi

 

the twist

19 July 2020
11.30pm
Avatar
Expert Textpert
In bed.
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4644
Member Since:
18 April 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

In general, people who don’t like Yoko are unimaginative boomers who don’t understand cutting edge music. Many younger indie artists today have been inspired by Yoko. Yoko was ahead of her time.

Admit that you don’t like noise rock or avant-garde or whatever, but when you start making fun of Yoko, yes you are being misogynistic or racist. John was not putting you on. He thought Yoko’s music was good and he was right.

The following people thank Expert Textpert for this post:

Jules, Pablo Ramon

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

19 July 2020
11.34pm
Avatar
Expert Textpert
In bed.
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4644
Member Since:
18 April 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
538sp_Permalink sp_Print

This kind of bullshit is why I seldom come on this forum anymore. Beatles fans are a big letdown.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

20 July 2020
1.31am
Avatar
KyleKartan
Germany
Casbah Coffee Club
Members
Forum Posts: 19
Member Since:
3 July 2020
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
539sp_Permalink sp_Print

Expert Textpert said
Same old crappy arguments. “She can’t sing. She used John to get famous. Blah blah blah.”

You say she didn’t understand art but she was already an established artist before she met John. What gallery was John exhibiting his art in before he met Yoko? No gallery.

Yoko was trolling Chuck Berry and she’s trolling you.

Also “she should have kept quiet?” And you’re not saying that because she was a woman? Lol. It’s because “she’s not a musician?” She received classical training in piano and voice as a child. What does that make her?

What does that make you? Is there any racism or misogyny in your attitudes?

  

Oh ok. That Response came unexpected. Honestly what ever you read from my post its not there. I would have said exactly the same about Yoko if she was called Emma and was a blond british/european white model. I would have said exactly the same about Yoko if she would have been a White male. Why is it always that People are called racist or msogyist because they critizise a certain Kind of minority. I dont care for any gender, race or whatever there is. I judge People for what they do and say. And its completly fair and ok to say if there are Things People dont like about Yoko exactly as its ok to defend her. Calling all her critics racists or whatever isnt helping any Argument because you offend those People and disqualifys you as an discussion partner.

Maybe you know the actress Kelly Marie Tran. She is an asian american actress who had a big role in STAR WARS Episode VIII - The Last Jedi. She was bullied off social media by real racists and misogynysts because certain Groups of "fans" bodyshamed and raceshamed her for beeing part of the movie and not liking the character she played. I defended her very much because she didnt do anything wrong then playing the part she was hired to Play. Wheter you like the movie or character or not has nothing to do with the actress behind. On the other side I critisice Yoko not for how she Looks or where she comes from or what gender she is but for how she acts with the Beatles, what roles she playes in their history, how she acts with John and torwards John in interviews. I dont like her art wheater its Music or not and Iam allowed to say so. Thats not because she is a japanese woman its because she puts herself in the spot to be reviewed. And it must be allowed to do so. And the difference between her and Tran is that Yoko and her art are one and the same. Yoko is her art and she Plays a certain role all the time. Its how she wants to be seen and viewed and thats how I see her and review her.

Wheater she had classic piano Training in her childhood or not is not relevant for beeing a musician I'd say. I had guitar lessons as a teen too and I wouldnt call myself a professional just because I know some chords and can play some tunes. There is a lot more to it. Yoko is another kind of artist. She doenst make music as a profession, she creates art. She wants to divide and shock. Thats what I take from the kind of stuff she does. She treats Music the same way she treats the other art she does. And thats ok. Its ok to like it. Its ok to not like it. I must be allowed to say "i dont like her stuff" even if Iam a White man and she is a japanese woman. Heck I've been a fan of the Spice Girls since my childhood and they are 4 to 5 very powerfull and feministic women who told everybody "Girl Power" and one of them is a black woman. I never questioned that, not as a child, not as teen and not now. People are People and I dont judge any of them because of their gender or sexuality or Skin Color. Honstly its offensive that I have to clarify that when I sayed in my first post that its not about Yoko beeing a woman. Its about her character and the way she potrays herself.

BTW: She is trolling Chuck Berry? How does that make it any better? Honest Question. I dont get it. I always thought trolling is a bad Thing. Internet trolls are always get called out and banned. So I dont get how trolling Chuck Berry is ok and fine when her husband is playing with him and he is admiring Berry as one of his Idols, Heros, influences?!

Expert Textpert said
In general, people who don’t like Yoko are unimaginative boomers who don’t understand cutting edge music. Many younger indie artists today have been inspired by Yoko. Yoko was ahead of her time.

Admit that you don’t like noise rock or avant-garde or whatever, but when you start making fun of Yoko, yes you are being misogynistic or racist. John was not putting you on. He thought Yoko’s music was good and he was right.

  

Wow...that was offenisve and insulting! So you call People who dont like Yoko stupid and conservative old white males?! Sorry but how is that not generalisation, the very same you just called me out for?

If @Jules or me dont like her stuff its as good as opinion as you liking it. Heck I dont like all of the stuff George, Ringo, Paul and John did after they broke up. There is tons of music I dont like, rap and Hip Hop is music I'll never get into. Almost any german Pop song stuff I dont like at all (and the majority of it is from White man). It's just a question of taste and preferences. And I wouldnt call Yokos music audience pleasers and crowd appealing in any way. Its the Kind of music which only a small Group of People can get into in my opinion. If John liked Yokos music its good for him. That doesnt make it right for the rest of us. Iam allowed to disagree with John on that. And you can be as entitled to your opinion as John can be to his and I can be to mine. There is no right and wrong in what good music or art is, there is just opinion because art is always subjective. Any movie I like you may hate and the other way around...who's right here?!

 

Expert Textpert said
This kind of bullshit is why I seldom come on this forum anymore. Beatles fans are a big letdown.

  

Sorry but in that case you felt offended and started the attack. I didnt mean to offend you in any way. I just wrote down my opinion on Yoko. If you dont like to read it dont. Iam all up for a constructive discussion. Calling me racist or misogyny isnt doing it for me though.

The following people thank KyleKartan for this post:

Jules

To the Benefit of Mr. Kyle

20 July 2020
1.32am
Avatar
Little Piggy Dragonguy
Nowhere Land
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 3882
Member Since:
5 November 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
540sp_Permalink sp_Print

Expert Textpert said
In general, people who don’t like Yoko are unimaginative boomers who don’t understand cutting edge music. Many younger indie artists today have been inspired by Yoko. Yoko was ahead of her time.

Admit that you don’t like noise rock or avant-garde or whatever, but when you start making fun of Yoko, yes you are being misogynistic or racist. John was not putting you on. He thought Yoko’s music was good and he was right.

Yes, because we all know that if you are a minority and a woman, that is all you are. You can like Yoko because you appreciate her art or persona, but if you dislike her, it can only be because she is a Japanese woman. 

The following people thank Little Piggy Dragonguy for this post:

Jules, KyleKartan, Starr Shine?

All living things must abide by the laws of the shape they inhabit 

Forum Timezone: America/Chicago
Most Users Ever Online: 700
Currently Online: lovelyritametermaid
Guest(s) 1
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
Starr Shine?: 15907
Ron Nasty: 10825
50yearslate: 8592
Necko: 7903
AppleScruffJunior: 7211
parlance: 7111
mr. Sun king coming together: 6403
Mr. Kite: 6147
trcanberra: 6064
sir walter raleigh: 5104
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 87
Members: 2572
Moderators: 6
Admins: 1
Forum Stats:
Groups: 3
Forums: 44
Topics: 4890
Posts: 349807
Newest Members:
dennisobell78, Cameron, Legionbus, kurlykale, etsriskmngmt
Moderators: Joe: 5099, Zig: 9812, meanmistermustard: 23245, Ahhh Girl: 19394, Beatlebug: 17260, The Hole Got Fixed: 7919
Administrators: Joe: 5099