Was John Lennon Bisexual? | Page 31 | Fab Forum | The Beatles Bible

John wasn’t just bi-curious. He had sexual relations with men across the balance of his life, sometimes he was comfortable with that and at other times he wasn’t. The evidence is in his own words and conversations with those closest to him. John was far from the only rock star of his era to behave like that. 

I don’t think John and Paul ever had an actively sexual/romantic relationship of any kind…  But i think there were definitely feelings left unspoken between them, to a large degree they were each others soulmates.

forn said
I was listening to the aforementioned podcast women again, and they had a theory that John might have made some sort of proposition to Paul while in India.  Because they said when John returned from India, he was in a very bad mood, and he ended up claiming he was Jesus Christ in the Apple boardroom.  Shortly thereafter, John got together with Yoko and Paul got together with Linda.  According to them, this period was the beginning of problems between John and Paul.  They said John felt rejected so essentially replaced Paul with Yoko, started making solo records with her, and eventually asked for a “divorce” from the Beatles.  

I don’t buy their theory about John propositioning Paul, sounds more like fan fiction than anything else.  But it is an interesting question.  The India trip is usually described as harmonious and a positive thing.  But it does appear something happened at that time or shortly thereafter that caused some major changes in John’s life especially, but also to Paul’s (breaking up with Jane Asher and getting together with Linda).  What was it?

  

If you look at it from the perspective that John was Bisexual, and needed to have a relationship that fused his artistic and emotional/sexual needs it kind of makes sense. 

Brian had died by this point so John had no outlet for this in his life, which i believe he had with Stuart beforehand. And also the laws against homosexuality had gone by this point. 

I think it’s true something changed in India, because up to then John still felt very much an active part of the Beatles. India was also one of the most productive periods writing wise for John, Afterwards he went back to drugs in a big way and his behaviour got more and more bizarre. I mean playing your bandmates a tape of you having sex is a pretty odd power play. 

It’s entirely reasonable to consider that something private happened between John and Paul at this point, and John clearly felt betrayed and angry afterwards. 

forn said

castironshore said  

If you look at it from the perspective that John was Bisexual, and needed to have a relationship that fused his artistic and emotional/sexual needs it kind of makes sense. 

Maybe it was more like John thought he needed to have a relationship that fused his artistic, emotional, and sexual needs.

And Brian died while the Beatles were in India (or some of them at least).  That famous interview where John and George are reacting to the news:  George is giving the spiritually enlightened line, while John looks absolutely devastated.  Maybe that had a bigger effect on him than we thought, and maybe that was the big event that threw him so off kilter at the time?  It’s all conjecture on our part.

  

Seeing that again you are absolutely right. 

I firmly believe that when john later said that he thought “we’ve had it” when Brian died, he really meant “I’ve had it”.  He didn’t just look devastated he looked utterly terrified. 

There was always something a bit odd about John and Brian’s relationship. And i don’t mean the sexual element either.

Brian loved and supported all the Beatles, that was his main role after they rose to fame…. to ensure that egos were massaged and that all of his boys felt equally involved. His last memos show him fretting about “Magical Mystery Tour ” and stating must find more for George to do here, ringo would be good for that etc etc….

But with John it was a bit different. I think Brian had always been in love with John from the start and was terrified of losing him. John played on that of course to his advantage, and it was every bit a toxic relationship with John able to reduce him to tears with a few words. 

Co-dependence is a good way of framing it. I mean whatever happened in Barcelona it doesn’t sound healthy. A young married man with a newborn baby running off with a homosexual he knew was intent on seducing him. 

I doubt very much that John would tell Paul if that had happened between them. Why would he ? I suspect that Paul knew they were very close and felt a tad threatened by it as would anyone.  As the band got really huge Paul said himself he started to ask more questions about the money and the business deals. He put Brian under more scrutiny than before because he knew Brian would look after John first and foremost.

Obviously he wasn’t always a jerk to him and they shared some tender moments, but its evident he certainly could be devastatingly cruel to him and revel in it. Perhaps Brian enjoyed that aspect of it in some way, we know he often solicited male prostitutes who abused him. 

One thing for sure John dropping his trousers to Brian as some charitable act doesn’t ring true to Johns character at all. 

“Ahhh Girls” comment about there being some kind of toxic co-dependance on each other is what rings mostly true to me. 

castironshore said
I doubt very much that John would tell Paul if that had happened between them. Why would he ? I suspect that Paul knew they were very close and felt a tad threatened by it as would anyone.  As the band got really huge Paul said himself he started to ask more questions about the money and the business deals. He put Brian under more scrutiny than before because he knew Brian would look after John first and foremost.

Obviously he wasn’t always a jerk to him and they shared some tender moments, but its evident he certainly could be devastatingly cruel to him and revel in it. Perhaps Brian enjoyed that aspect of it in some way, we know he often solicited male prostitutes who abused him. 

One thing for sure John dropping his trousers to Brian as some charitable act doesn’t ring true to Johns character at all. 

“Ahhh Girls” comment about there being some kind of toxic co-dependance on each other is what rings mostly true to me.   

It may not “Ring true” to you, but from the words of Pete Shotton, according to John it’s what happened:

Shotton quoted the exchange at length, and with characteristic frankness, in his 1983 memoir. This is perhaps the fullest published account which claims to shed light on the true nature of Lennon’s Spanish encounter with Epstein.

I visited John at Aunt Mimi’s a few days after his return to England. And when he started in about how much he had enjoyed Spain, I could hardly resist taking the piss out of him. “So you had a good time with Brian, then?” I smirked. Nudge nudge, wink wink.
I was somewhat taken aback when John didn’t so much as crack a smile. “Oh, fuckin’ hell,” he groaned. “Not you as well, Pete!”
“What do you mean, not me as well?”
“They’re all fucking going on about it.”
It’s OK, John. Don’t take it so serious. I’m just joking, for Christ’s sake.”
“Actually Pete,” he said softly, “Something did happen with him one night.”
Now that wiped the grin right off my face. Had I even dreamed there might be any truth whatsoever to the rumors, I would never have made light of the subject in the first place. Still – as John surely knew – I would have stood by him, and let the rest of the world handle the business of passing moral judgement, even if he had just told me he’d committed murder. And John would surely have done the same for me.
Which, after all, is what true friendship is all about.
“What happened,” John explained, “is that Eppy just kept on and on at me. Until one night I finally just pulled me trousers down and said to him: ‘Oh, for Christ’s sake, Brian, just stick it up me fucking arse then.’
“And he said to me, ‘Actually, John, I don’t do that kind of thing. That’s not what I like to do.’
“‘Well,’ I said, ‘what is it you like to do, then?’
“And he said, ‘I’d really just like to touch you, John.’
“And so I let him toss me off.”
And that was that. End of story.
“That’s all, John” I said. “Well, so what? What’s the big fucking deal, then?”
“Yeah, so fucking what! The poor bastard. He’s having a fucking hard enough time anyway.” This was in reference to the “butch” dockers who, on several recent occasions, had rewarded Brian’s advances by beating him to a bloody pulp.
“So what harm did it do, then, Pete, for fuck’s sake?” John asked rhetorically. “No harm at all. The poor fucking bastard, he can’t help the way he is.”

So as we can see, this is quite a vivid account and I see no reason why Pete would lie. It sounds EXACTLY like something John would say about it and completely in line with how Homosexuality was thought of at the time: “He can’t help it”.

Of course, “Charitable” isnt the word here. No, if this is all true then John was essentially groomed, and thats sad.

Richard said

MattWatchingWheels said

No, if this is all true then John was essentially groomed, and thats sad.

You wrote “if this is all true”, and that’s a key point.

I know that account from Pete Shotton, and it’s interesting that Pete wrote: “I would have stood by him, and let the rest of the world handle the business of passing moral judgement, even if he had just told me he’d committed murder. And John would surely have done the same for me.

Which, after all, is what true friendship is all about.”

Well, was it really “true friendship” for Pete to write this in 1983 when John was of course unable to confirm, deny or comment in any way on Pete’s claims?  That doesn’t seem to me to be “true friendship”, and it is quite possible that Pete made up this account, or John was simply not being serious, etc.  We have no way of knowing.

A few years ago, Ringo was asked by Howard Stern about details of John and Brian’s relationship, and Ringo replied to Howard appropriately by saying: “Ask John. Ask Brian.”

  

Spot on.

I’d also add that John (and also to an extent paul) were very adept at tailoring their responses for the needs of whoever they were talking to. 

I reckon the other Beatles knew what was happening between John and Brian very early on, he wasn’t “groomed” at all, he willingly and happily entered into a relationship with him that was exclusive to the others.