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Did John Lennon have gay leanings?
10 March 2015
12.32am
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Oudis
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meanmistermustard said
I know its been written before by someone else but every time this topic comes up to the surface again i want to write "who cares". I fail to see what influence or significance it would have on John and his legacy and persona if the answer was either a definitive yes or no.

I thought a lot about what you wrote, and I beg to differ. Although John’s sexuality was his own business while he was alive, and has nothing to do with his legacy, now that he is gone those of us who enjoy his music do want to know the most we can about him. I mean, years ago I read and loved 1984 and Animal Farm, and I recently bought a biography of George Orwell (which I still haven’t read); I’m also a big fan of Philip K. Dick and I bought and read his biography (he married several times); same thing can be said about E. A. Poe (who, according to his biographer  had a strange, morbid sexuality) and H. P. Lovecraft (who seemed to have been essentially asexual). I find it quite natural that we want to know about John’s sexuality –the way we want to know about Julia or Mimi, about Sean and Julian, etc. 

Forsan et haec olim meminisse juvabit” (“Perhaps one day it will be a pleasure to look back on even this”; Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 1, line 203, where Aeneas says this to his men after the shipwreck that put them on the shores of Africa)

10 March 2015
11.45am
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Linde
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Yeah of course you want to know and all that, but does it matter for you whether he was gay or straight? Does that make a difference to his music? For me it doesn't, really.

10 March 2015
11.52am
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Linde said
Yeah of course you want to know and all that, but does it matter for you whether he was gay or straight? Does that make a difference to his music? For me it doesn't, really.

Agreed.

@Oudis , you state that "those of us who enjoy his music do want to know the most we can about him". Actually, no, I don't. If it turns out he tortured butterflies I would prefer not to know.

I also prefer that people don't make inclusive statements that try to rope me in like "those of us who enjoy his music do want to know the most we can about him". It's actually NOT we, it may be you - which is fine - but it's not me and therefore not we.

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10 March 2015
2.31pm
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trcanberra said

Linde said
Actually, no, I don't. If it turns out he tortured butterflies I would prefer not to know.

I also prefer that people don't make inclusive statements that try to rope me in like "those of us who enjoy his music do want to know the most we can about him". It's actually NOT we, it may be you - which is fine - but it's not me and therefore not we.

I guess it's safe to say you are not "John curious." I think I know what William Farron Ruffley would have to say about you after a night in bed.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

10 March 2015
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Expert Textpert said

trcanberra said

Linde said
Actually, no, I don't. If it turns out he tortured butterflies I would prefer not to know.

I also prefer that people don't make inclusive statements that try to rope me in like "those of us who enjoy his music do want to know the most we can about him". It's actually NOT we, it may be you - which is fine - but it's not me and therefore not we.

I guess it's safe to say you are not "John curious." I think I know what William Farron Ruffley would have to say about you after a night in bed.

Okay, I'll bite. Relevance?

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10 March 2015
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It's relevant because it's funny?

I'd like to think I'm not of that persuasion either, but then I have not taken the Ruffley test. And for that matter, nor have you.

Only after withstanding the charms of William Farron Ruffley can we truly say what side we are on.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

10 March 2015
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Okay, I found a picture of Mr. Ruffley. He's the curly-haired guy in the middle. His band is called Faron's Flamingos.

faronbeatcity500x333.jpgImage Enlarger

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

10 March 2015
8.32pm
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Expert Textpert said
It's relevant because it's funny?

I'd like to think I'm not of that persuasion either, but then I have not taken the Ruffley test. And for that matter, nor have you.

Only after withstanding the charms of William Farron Ruffley can we truly say what side we are on.

Got it. Yes, I knew about Ruffley but not the test, and thanks for the pic.

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10 March 2015
8.49pm
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trcanberra said

Linde said
Yeah of course you want to know and all that, but does it matter for you whether he was gay or straight? Does that make a difference to his music? For me it doesn't, really.

Agreed.

@Oudis , you state that "those of us who enjoy his music do want to know the most we can about him". Actually, no, I don't. If it turns out he tortured butterflies I would prefer not to know.

I also prefer that people don't make inclusive statements that try to rope me in like "those of us who enjoy his music do want to know the most we can about him". It's actually NOT we, it may be you - which is fine - but it's not me and therefore not we.

@Linde 

No it does not really matter, it is just interesting –for some of us as trcanberra pointed out. I say the same thing about Paul’s stinginess.

@trcanberra 

Sorry if you felt I was crossing a line with my remark; I should have phrased it better. But personally I would like to know if he tortured butterflies. John’s sexuality is to me as interesting as his being an orphan, his not being able to raise Julian, his being unfaithful to Cynthia, his political statements, his dependency to Yoko, etc. etc…

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Forsan et haec olim meminisse juvabit” (“Perhaps one day it will be a pleasure to look back on even this”; Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 1, line 203, where Aeneas says this to his men after the shipwreck that put them on the shores of Africa)

4 April 2015
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I have looked all over the internet for a place to come and bring this up and it has lead me to this thread.  Huge fan of all things John Lennon and am now in search of answers for something shocking that I had just read just a few days ago.  I recently picked up the 2005 book titled "John Lennon : The New York Years" by his personal photographer Bob Gruen who ended up knowing John very well.  Great book with some nice photos and little stories of John as told by Bob who was there.

Now.... on page 98 Bob speaks of a story from a 1975 Grammy Awards after party at a club called "Les Jardins".  In what feels like a very quick story in the book, Bob explains how at this party John and David Bowie got involved in a "deep" conversation and then "disappeared". Later, someone was looking for John and Bob told them he was in the "Ladies room".  He then continues to write on this same page about how he found this out because someone had opened the door to the Ladies bathroom and he noticed three pairs of boots "suspiciously" in one bathroom stall.  He then confirmed that the boots were that of John Lennon , David Bowie, and a limo driver from that night.

This story ABSOLUTELY shocked me and immediately I went on the internet looking to see if I could find anything about it and came up with NOTHING at all.  We have read all these "rumors" and stories throughout the years such as the thought of what happened with John and Epstein in Spain, the Tony Mandera story, and maybe a few other things from not so reliable sources, but Bob Gruen was legitimate FRIEND of John's for nearly 10 years while he lived in New York.  I even tried emailing Bob's contact address about this story and have not received a response.

My question here obviously is has ANYONE, ever, at some point in time, ever heard of such a story like this?  I know Bowie stated he was bisexual in 1972 but I never once heard of a rumor or story like this.  It is also even a bit more shocking because by the time the Grammy's happened in February 1975, John's "Lost Weekend" was over and he was supposed to be completely back with Yoko Ono.  You could say maybe they were in there doing coke or whatever else it may have been, but I just can't see that being the case.  Why would three grown men need to go into one bathroom stall to do a line of coke or any drug for that matter?  In those days especially, drugs were pretty much done out in the open.

Gruen does not speak of this anywhere else in the entire book and doesn't mention a single thing about John's sexuality anywhere else in the book.

4 April 2015
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@BorrowedTime84, here's a webpage that speaks about it. It is in French. Here's the Google Translate version.

In January 1975, John Lennon and David Bowie Fame record the song. Rumor has it that the collaboration between the two men continued after the studio.

Reading the book photographer Bob Gruen, John Lennon , New York, 1971-1980 (Fetjaine) covering the years New York of the former Beatle, brings water to the mill and offers a new interpretation of the lyrics:

Fame, what you like is in the limo
Fame, what you get is no tomorrow
Fame, what you need you-have to borrow

Page 98. Bob Gruen, a close friend of John Lennon during this period, tells the story heard loaded in the party after the Grammy Awards in 1975. Present: David Bowie, John Lennon , Yoko Ono, Roberta Flack, Paul Simon Art Garfunkel ...

Preview:
During the evening given the club Gardens after issue, David and John embarked on a great conversation before disappearing. Tony King, extravagant young man who worked for a variety of stars and was a friend of the couple [John Lennon and Yoko Ono] said, "John Yoko seeks. You know where he is? "I do not have a clue, but later I found myself in the lobby when someone opened the door of the ladies room. I noticed three pairs of cowboy boots under the door of a cabin. Those of David Bowie, John and the limo driver.

When I met Bob Gruen last week to talk about his book, I discussed the subject he tells me what he had really seen. He sketched a smile. "There were not four pairs of boots, mine were not there! I can not talk too much. »

The final two sentences are quite intriguing!

And if any of our French speakers/readers need an extra French exercise, maybe you can translate the page better for us. stuart-sutcliffe

4 April 2015
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I don't know what's more shocking, the fact that this actually happened or the fact that this story from this now TEN year old book never got any big coverage.

4 April 2015
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I have that book, and while I was puzzled by the boots in the stall story at first, I assumed they were doing coke. But then he doesn't say what they were doing.

But yeah, the reference to what you want being in the limo is in Fame. Whether they want the limo driver or his coke, who knows?

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"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

5 April 2015
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Ahhh Girl said

The final two sentences are quite intriguing!

And if any of our French speakers/readers need an extra French exercise, maybe you can translate the page better for us. stuart-sutcliffe

AG offered a quest and I never turn down challenges! mal-evans

Alors, on commence: 

In January 1975, John Lennon and David Bowie recorded the song 'Fame'. The rumour told was that the collaboration between the two men continued after the studio.

Reading the photographer, Bob Gruen's book 'John Lennon , New York, 1971-1980 (Fetjaine) concentrated on the 'New York Years' of the ex-Beatle, intentionally adds fuel to the fire and offers a new interpretation of the lyrics:

Fame, what you like is in the limo
Fame, what you get is no tomorrow
Fame, what you need you have to borrow

Page 98. Bob Gruen, an intimate friend of John Lennon during this period, tells the suggestible story of the Grammy's after-party in 1975. Present were: David Bowie, John Lennon , Yoko Ono, Roberta Flack, Paul Simon, Art Garfunkel...

Extract:

During the evening in the Les Jardins club after the show, David and John launched themselves into a great conversation before they disappeared. Tony King, an extravagant young man who worked for all kinds of stars and who was a friend of the couple [John Lennon and Yoko Ono] told me: "Yoko is looking for John. Do you know where he is?". I didn't have the slightest idea but later, I found myself in the entrance of the ladies' toilets when someone opened the doors. I noticed 3 pairs of cowboy boys under a door of a stall. They were David Bowie's, John's and the limo driver's.

When I met Bob Gruen last week to talk about his book, I discussed the subject that he told me of what he had really seen. He gave a hint of a smile. "There were not 4 pairs of boots, mine weren't there! I can't say much more about that". 

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6 April 2015
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Wow. Ok so in my mind from that, John Lennon and David Bowie got it on. 

6 April 2015
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BorrowedTime84 said

Wow. Ok so in my mind from that, John Lennon and David Bowie got it on. 

If that's so, would you say he had gay leanings?

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

6 April 2015
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I like to think of John as that macho guy from Liverpool but this story most certainly suggest more than any others that something did in fact happen. If it did happen, then sure, I believe there  were gay leanings in John's mind more than we were lead to believe. I mean Bob Gruen is just about telling us that John legitimately had gay sex for crying out loud. 

All I know is that this is hands down the most reputable "Gay John Lennon " story there is and I just can't get over how it is not mentioned anywhere on the Internet. Perhaps I can meet Bob at a book signing one day and ask him myself ! Lol

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7 April 2015
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BorrowedTime84 said

Wow. Ok so in my mind from that, John Lennon and David Bowie got it on. 

I think it far more likely that they were all doing coke in the stall. Don't jump to conclusions because someone winks and nods.

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7 April 2015
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Fair point @ewe2 but you should tell Bob Gruen that. The man gives almost every indication that it wasn't just drugs. THREE guys don't go in ONE bathroom stall to do coke. Especially in the 70s. Plus, Bowie is gay/bi fyi. 

7 April 2015
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Well, whatever they did in the stall, I know John would love the fact that we are still wondering whether he was gay. Apparently he really got a laugh out of making people think he was gay, which for all we know could have just been a useful trick designed to keep us from realizing that he was really bisexual.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

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