Please consider registering
Guest

sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —






— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

sp_Feed sp_TopicIcon
"Bed-in for peace" - Stupid or Genius?
No permission to create posts
28 February 2014
11.18pm
Avatar
robert
Ed Sullivan Show
Members
Forum Posts: 416
Member Since:
19 April 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Into the Sky with Diamonds said

Who doesn't want peace? It's just that everyone wants it on their terms.

 

Slightly off topic - but here is where people get confused - do people want peace or freedom? It's easy to have peace with no freedom (North Korea for example)  - but freedom always takes a war to achieve - sad but true.

"She looks more like him than I do."

28 February 2014
11.47pm
Avatar
Ron Nasty
Apple rooftop
Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 8040
Member Since:
17 December 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Not strictly true. The former Soviet block all gained freedom without war, and many of them - East Germany, Hungary, Poland, etc., found where they wanted to be in the world without a shot being fired. Yes, unfortunately, some did descend into ethnic violence, but that was largely in those countries that had been constructed in the 20th Century. And in recent years, again unfortunately, we have seen Russia flexing its muscles about countries that must not leave its sphere of influence (Georgia, Ukraine) and move towards Western Europe.

Those cases, however, do not change my basic point that war is not always to gain freedom.

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

 

The Beatles Non-Canon Poll List

1 March 2014
7.09pm
Avatar
robert
Ed Sullivan Show
Members
Forum Posts: 416
Member Since:
19 April 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Not strictly true. The former Soviet block all gained freedom without war, and many of them - East Germany, Hungary, Poland, etc., found where they wanted to be in the world without a shot being fired. Yes, unfortunately, some did descend into ethnic violence, but that was largely in those countries that had been constructed in the 20th Century. And in recent years, again unfortunately, we have seen Russia flexing its muscles about countries that must not leave its sphere of influence (Georgia, Ukraine) and move towards Western Europe. Those cases, however, do not change my basic point that war is not always to gain freedom.

 

Not to be argumentative - but the idea that the USSR fell without a shot being fired is a US/Western Europe construct (and I'm from the US). I am fairly sure that the thousands upon thousands of people who fought Soviet oppression and died fighting for their freedom for over 80 years (the Polish Solidarity movement, Yugoslavia, Afghans, East Germans, Czechoslovakians, Serbs, Croatians etc., - not mention Russian dissidents) would beg to differ.

I agree that war is not always to gain freedom, however it is sad but true that freedom is never gained without bloodshed. Into the Sky with Diamonds said "Who doesn't want peace? It's just that everyone wants it on their terms."

Which is why I made the distinction between whether people want freedom or peace. Even John Lennon himself ultimately understood this which is why he "fought" (there's all types of wars) to stay in the US - even though he felt his life was at risk. If he'd just wanted peace he could have gone back to England, but what he really wanted was freedom - artistic and otherwise.

 

"She looks more like him than I do."

1 March 2014
7.48pm
Avatar
Ron Nasty
Apple rooftop
Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 8040
Member Since:
17 December 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I should have said barely a shot, and I did intend to, don't know how that got lost! However, my point was that it doesn't always take a war.

If we zoom in on just one, East Germany. Yes, many East Germans died seeking freedom, however there was no war needed when East Germany gained freedom and the two halves unified. The same goes for, in their time, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, and Poland. They may all have had freedom movements suppressed, with Poland being the most recent of them at the time, but they were not at the time they gained freedom.

Obviously, Czechoslovakia is a slightly different case as the Czechs and Slovaks didn't come of gaining their freedom without bloodshed - but I recognised that.

My point was, history aside, how many people died in the 1989/1990 move from Soviet domination to democracy in East Germany, Hungary and Poland? And what WAR was there, in those examples at that time?

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

 

The Beatles Non-Canon Poll List

2 March 2014
12.04pm
Avatar
robert
Ed Sullivan Show
Members
Forum Posts: 416
Member Since:
19 April 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

My point was, history aside, how many people died in the 1989/1990 move from Soviet domination to democracy in East Germany, Hungary and Poland? And what WAR was there, in those examples at that time?

 

And my point is that the time frame we should be looking at is from about 1950 - 1990 - that was the length of what we call the "Cold War". 1989/1990 is the date of the end of that war. That is actually the surrender of the war - not the war itself.

"She looks more like him than I do."

2 March 2014
3.23pm
Avatar
fabfouremily
Sitting in an English garden
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 2929
Member Since:
3 May 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Though it's good to discuss important subjects, perhaps we should keep this to a more appropriate thread? (here, for example: http://www.beatlesbible.com/fo.....ad-thread/ )

Moving along in our God given ways, safety is sat by the fire/Sanctuary from these feverish smiles, left with a mark on the door.

(Passover - I. Curtis)

6 March 2014
10.36pm
Avatar
Musketeer Gripweed
Coldspring Harbor, NY
Royal Command Performance
Members
Forum Posts: 249
Member Since:
16 January 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

MJA love the video post, it gave people a great way to voice there opinion in a peaceful manner as opposed to rioting. It wasn't meant to be genius or anything, it was meant to promote an opinion or idea which it was successful of. This was a confusing time for the people of the entire world. A time when anti-establishment was growing throughout the entire world. People were very confused and weren't sure what to do. Like Berkley was an example of protesting/control gone wrong. John is just promoting that if action is going to be taken by either side pro-war or anti, that it should be attempted in a peaceful manner. So in retrospect I think it was great PR work on Johns part and provided an amazing medium for people to voice opinion.It is also showing people you don't have to just protest by marching the streets, that there are other ways to protest. I think they also handled the media frenzy that ensued the bed-in, the best way possible. Also the media were panning John and Yoko at the time, so he gave them a twist if there gonna be covering me anyway why not promote peace.  This is a great documentary on the Toronto Bed In. 

 

11 December 2017
10.12am
Avatar
Father McKenzie
Liverpool England
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1038
Member Since:
14 November 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I don't think it was either stupid or genius. I just think that it was a way that they chose to get their peace message across,and it obviously generated a lot of attention and interest. The completely 'out there' nature of it, and the bag event,was so typical of John and Yoko. I say good on them for doing it,even if Lennon's influence did worry people in the US government at the time,hence why they did everything they could to get him deported.  It's just extremely sad to me that,after fighting for so long to remain in the country, John then had his life taken away by some madman

The following people thank Father McKenzie for this post:

Beatlebug, SgtPeppersBulldog

Still writing the words to the sermon that no one will hear......

11 December 2017
10.34am
Avatar
Starr Shine?
Waiting in the sky
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 15262
Member Since:
1 November 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Maybe they were just tired and wanted to take a nap but a bunch of reporters stomped.

The following people thank Starr Shine? for this post:

Father McKenzie

https://youtu.be/52nwiTs7bk8

Brainwashed by RadiantCowbells.

If you can't log in and can't use the forum go here and someone will help you out.

11 December 2017
10.49am
Avatar
Beatlebug
Find me where ye echo lays
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 12238
Member Since:
15 February 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

It's not for peace, it's what ye call half eleven at night!

https://youtu.be/h-LmRO7NyV0

The following people thank Beatlebug for this post:

Ms. Lane, Father McKenzie, SgtPeppersBulldog

Listen to the music playing in your head
Silly-Girl-2016.png
Silly-Girl-2017.png
New to Forumpool? You can introduce yourself here

11 December 2017
12.36pm
Avatar
Father McKenzie
Liverpool England
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1038
Member Since:
14 November 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Starr Shine? said
Maybe they were just tired and wanted to take a nap but a bunch of reporters stomped.  

I think John said that a load of reporters were banging on the doors and windows trying to get in "I think they thought we were having sex or something",but that the reporters got a massive shock when they were let in,and they were just sitting up in bed talking about peace, and letting your hair grow until everybody found peace. It's a very simple concept when you think about it. I rewatched 'The US vs John Lennon ' when it was re aired here on the anniversary of his death the other day. The simplicity of what they were hoping to achieve still hits home whenever I watch it. I just wonder what he'd make of the world today if he was here. I'm sure he's watching somewhere thougha-hard-days-night-george-10a-hard-days-night-john-3

The following people thank Father McKenzie for this post:

Beatlebug

Still writing the words to the sermon that no one will hear......

11 December 2017
1.43pm
Avatar
Zig
The Toppermost of the Poppermost
Moderator

Moderators

Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 9779
Member Since:
14 April 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Father McKenzie said 

just wonder what he'd make of the world today if he was here.

As dearly as I have missed John, I am glad he is not here to see it. 

Image Enlarger

The following people thank Zig for this post:

Father McKenzie

To the fountain of perpetual mirth, let it roll for all its worth. And all the children boogie.

11 December 2017
3.04pm
Avatar
Father McKenzie
Liverpool England
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1038
Member Since:
14 November 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Zig said

Father McKenzie said 
just wonder what he'd make of the world today if he was here.

As dearly as I have missed John, I am glad he is not here to see it. 

Image Enlarger

  

I know what you mean Zig. I think he'd be devastated at all the stuff that's going on. I'd love to get his opinion on Donald Trump too. I wasn't even born until 1985, and I still miss him.

 

Here's a question: If he hadn't won his deportation case, and had to return to England, would he still be alive today?

 

A mention here for Yoko too,who I believe is now wheelchair bound yoko-ono_01

The following people thank Father McKenzie for this post:

Zig

Still writing the words to the sermon that no one will hear......

11 December 2017
3.17pm
Avatar
Zig
The Toppermost of the Poppermost
Moderator

Moderators

Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 9779
Member Since:
14 April 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Father McKenzie said 

 Here's a question: If he hadn't won his deportation case, and had to return to England, would he still be alive today?

An interesting question, but too many variables to consider. He could have been run over by a bus.

Image Enlarger

Wouldn't that have been ironic?

If still alive, he would be 77. Ringo is also 77, but in great shape. Then again, if John were still alive, would Ringo be as healthy as he is today if you consider he could have still cavorted with John for years? So many questions that are fun to debate. Good thing we have a Forum in which to do it.  a-hard-days-night-george-10

The following people thank Zig for this post:

Father McKenzie

To the fountain of perpetual mirth, let it roll for all its worth. And all the children boogie.

11 December 2017
3.34pm
Avatar
Father McKenzie
Liverpool England
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1038
Member Since:
14 November 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Zig said

Father McKenzie said 

 Here's a question: If he hadn't won his deportation case, and had to return to England, would he still be alive today?

An interesting question, but too many variables to consider. He could have been run over by a bus.

Image Enlarger

Wouldn't that have been ironic?

If still alive, he would be 77. Ringo is also 77, but in great shape. Then again, if John were still alive, would Ringo be as healthy as he is today if you consider he could have still cavorted with John for years? So many questions that are fun to debate. Good thing we have a Forum in which to do it.  a-hard-days-night-george-10  

Hahaha,yeah,that was my thinking. The debate on that one could go on for ever I'd say. John and Ringo out on the town at 77. That would be something to see. Re that bus: there are now fab 4 taxi cabs in Liverpool too:

2011-05-Liverpool-150-Falkner-St-and-St-Bride.JPGImage Enlarger

Still writing the words to the sermon that no one will hear......

11 December 2017
5.30pm
Avatar
meanmistermustard
Moderator
Members

Reviewers


Moderators
Forum Posts: 21730
Member Since:
1 May 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I happened to catch a discussion on tv this morning on whether it was right for celebrities to be involved in appeals on tv, some report has come out criticising some celebs as its felt their appeals are more about them than the cause. It reminded me of all the criticism John and Yoko received 48 years ago where they did all these "stunts" for peace and John said he was prepared to look an absolute fool if it got the message across and people talking about it.

I felt very proud of John and Yoko. I think John would be too.

Image result for john yoko peace gif

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris) 

"Don't make your love suffer insecurities; Trade the baggage of 'self' to set another one free" ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)

11 December 2017
6.37pm
Avatar
Dark Overlord
Nowhere Land
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 3362
Member Since:
9 March 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

While it was a nice gesture it was a stupid idea because world peace is impossible and there will be people like Hitler and Osama Bin Laden where they'll give people every reason to kill and those who believe that these things can be fought peacefully will be fraud upon regardless of how right they are. If you want war you've got it, if you don't want war you've still got it going on around you. Expecting world peace is like expecting everybody to be vegetarian it ain't gonna happen no matter how hard you try, you can become a pacifist but violence will always be there and there's nothing you can do about it.

If you're reading this, you are looking for something to do.

11 December 2017
6.58pm
Avatar
meanmistermustard
Moderator
Members

Reviewers


Moderators
Forum Posts: 21730
Member Since:
1 May 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Dark Overlord said
While it was a nice gesture it was a stupid idea because world peace is impossible and there will be people like Hitler and Osama Bin Laden where they'll give people every reason to kill and those who believe that these things can be fought peacefully will be fraud upon regardless of how right they are. If you want war you've got it, if you don't want war you've still got it going on around you. Expecting world peace is like expecting everybody to be vegetarian it ain't gonna happen no matter how hard you try, you can become a pacifist but violence will always be there and there's nothing you can do about it.  

You have to try otherwise there is no point in even bothering hoping for better. I truly dislike the viewpoint of won't work, why waste time trying?

I have always been of the opinion that I will leave work having desperately fought for something I have no chance of changing, but sometimes you have to fight for what you believe is right knowing you are going to lose and nothing will change, if not you risk losing the very core of your beliefs and self.

 

Additionally, whilst John didn't bring about world peace, if only one person turned from anger towards others to acceptance and love, I think it was worth it. If we started accepting others for who they are, all faults included, then maybe we might start to move a more peaceful world instead of where we seem to be heading.

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris) 

"Don't make your love suffer insecurities; Trade the baggage of 'self' to set another one free" ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)

11 December 2017
7.29pm
Avatar
sir walter raleigh
In our yellow (IN OUR YELLOW) submarine (SUBMARINE AHA!)
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 3778
Member Since:
26 January 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

@Dark Overlord, I think it is important to set standards at an unrealistic level. Of you never dream of or expect peace, how can it ever be acheived. The right amount of violence is no violence. Even if it does not happen in real life, if we lower the bar to people like Hitler and Osama Bin Ladin’s standard then they will continue to exist in the world. 

"The pump don't work cause the vandals took the handles!"

-Bob Dylan, Subterranean Homesick Blues

"We could ride and surf together while our love would grow"

-Brian Wilson, Surfer Girl

No permission to create posts
Forum Timezone: America/Chicago

Most Users Ever Online: 597

Currently Online: AppleScruffJunior, The Hole Got Fixed, SgtPeppersBulldog, Richard
1 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

Starr Shine?: 15257

Beatlebug: 12237

Ron Nasty: 8034

Necko: 7753

parlance: 7109

mr. Sun king coming together: 6411

Mr. Kite: 6148

trcanberra: 6039

AppleScruffJunior: 5424

mithveaen: 4613

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 87

Members: 2471

Moderators: 4

Admins: 2

Forum Stats:

Groups: 3

Forums: 44

Topics: 4551

Posts: 287760

Newest Members:

haribol, swami7774, Janet, Macca__Fan, Roberto Sangiacomo Zubizarreta

Moderators: Ahhh Girl: 16372, meanmistermustard: 21729, Zig: 9779, Joe: 4977

Administrators: Joe: 4977, Ellie: 4

Members Birthdays
sp_BirthdayIcon
Today: S. B. Fields
Upcoming: paulramon1962