Please consider registering
Guest

sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —






— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

sp_Feed sp_TopicIcon
Aunt Mimi on Cynthia and Yoko
This topic is locked No permission to create posts
13 December 2017
9.13am
Avatar
Expert Textpert
In bed.
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4055
Member Since:
18 April 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

In Loving John, May Pang makes reference to the fact that John felt Cynthia was being pushy and trying to get back with him during the Lost Weekend.

Here are two excerpts from letters John wrote to his cousin, Liela:

1. July 30, 1975

"About Julian...I'm lucky if I see/hear from him myself. She allowed him over here twice last year...but insisted on coming herself! You can imagine how thrilling that was...she thought she could walk back in coz I wasn't with Yoko! Now we're back together again she stops him phoning me...which he did a lot last year...once a week. He's a bright little boy...a bit 'sneaky' like his dad...but he's gonna need that to survive his mother! Our relationship is pretty good...he knows where I am and what my life is like...he thinks of me a little too much in terms of 'money' etc...which is what Cyn and her mother (so called) have taught him (by example). He will run right to me when he's older."

2. October/November 1975

"Oh yes...Julian...well his mother has somehow discouraged him from calling me (which he did regularly) since I got back with Yoko...it's a drag for all concerned...especially for Julian to be used like that. Now I have another child god knows what she'll get up to now."

So you can see, from John's own hand, how Cynthia was still being pushy and trying to get with him when he was with May Pang, and how she used Julian as a pawn in a game she was playing with John. It was Cynthia who kept Julian from calling, not Yoko. And she taught Julian to see John as "money bags."

The following people thank Expert Textpert for this post:

Beatlebug, Father McKenzie, QuarryMan

"Stop throwing jelly beans at me." --George Harrison

13 December 2017
11.14am
Avatar
Father McKenzie
Liverpool England
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1038
Member Since:
14 November 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Expert Textpert said
In Loving John, May Pang makes reference to the fact that John felt Cynthia was being pushy and trying to get back with him during the Lost Weekend.

Here are two excerpts from letters John wrote to his cousin, Liela:

1. July 30, 1975

"About Julian...I'm lucky if I see/hear from him myself. She allowed him over here twice last year...but insisted on coming herself! You can imagine how thrilling that was...she thought she could walk back in coz I wasn't with Yoko! Now we're back together again she stops him phoning me...which he did a lot last year...once a week. He's a bright little boy...a bit 'sneaky' like his dad...but he's gonna need that to survive his mother! Our relationship is pretty good...he knows where I am and what my life is like...he thinks of me a little too much in terms of 'money' etc...which is what Cyn and her mother (so called) have taught him (by example). He will run right to me when he's older."

2. October/November 1975

"Oh yes...Julian...well his mother has somehow discouraged him from calling me (which he did regularly) since I got back with Yoko...it's a drag for all concerned...especially for Julian to be used like that. Now I have another child god knows what she'll get up to now."

So you can see, from John's own hand, how Cynthia was still being pushy and trying to get with him when he was with May Pang, and how she used Julian as a pawn in a game she was playing with John. It was Cynthia who kept Julian from calling, not Yoko. And she taught Julian to see John as "money bags."  

Wow, that's really interesting! Thanks for posting paul-mccartney-thumb_gif

Still writing the words to the sermon that no one will hear......

14 December 2017
2.04am
Avatar
Little Piggy Dragonguy
Nowhere Land
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 3671
Member Since:
5 November 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Wait , so John says it was Cyn who kept Julian from him. Cyn and Julian say it was Yoko who kept Julian from John. Why do you take John's words over Cynthia's or Jules's? Julian has no reason to lie about Yoko keeping him from his dad.

And if John wanted to talk to Julian he could have called. He can't complain that Julian wasn't calling him anymore when he wasn't even calling Julian (I'm assuming John wasn't calling Julian because those quotes only mention Julian not calling John - they don't mention Cyn not letting John talk to Julian when he called).

Cynthia has explained that she went with Julian to visit John because Julian had not seen him in a long time. I think it's also relevant that neither Cynthia nor Jules knew May Pang. I would find it concerning if she sent Julian alone to another country to visit a couple people he hardly knew for a week or however long the stay was at the age he was.

Does anybody ever wonder why the "bad guy" in so many fairy tales are step mothers? It's because they usually are in real life, too. And honestly, with how Yoko treated Julian post the death of John, do you really think she was treating him that much better when he was alive?

The following people thank Little Piggy Dragonguy for this post:

penny lane

All living things must abide by the laws of the shape they inhabit 

14 December 2017
4.53pm
Avatar
Expert Textpert
In bed.
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4055
Member Since:
18 April 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

So basically you are saying John Lennon wasn't qualified to judge his own experience, and we should therefore discount whatever he has to say in favor of someone else's account of his life?

I have a question...why doesn't anyone ever show any sympathy for Yoko's situation with Kyoko? That situation is far worse than anything that ever happened to Julian. Her only child was kidnapped by Tony Cox and her whereabouts were completely secret...the minute they found out where she was, Cox would whisk her away to another location. John and Yoko spent forever trying to locate her and gain custody, and at the same time the United States government told Yoko that if John was deported, she would have to choose between her daughter (wherever she was) and her husband. In an interview on the Dick Cavett show, John talks about how Yoko had nightmares and would have an emotional breakdown if she saw a child on television.

The following people thank Expert Textpert for this post:

Beatlebug

"Stop throwing jelly beans at me." --George Harrison

16 December 2017
7.23am
Avatar
penny lane
This most excellent canopy
Abbey Road
Members
Forum Posts: 98
Member Since:
18 September 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Little Piggy Dragonguy said
[...Cynthia has explained that she went with Julian to visit John because Julian had not seen him in a long time. I think it's also relevant that neither Cynthia nor Jules knew May Pang. I would find it concerning if she sent Julian alone to another country to visit a couple people he hardly knew for a week or however long the stay was at the age he was..]  

Agree with that, Julian was scared and shy about seeing his father again, after the initial trip to Disneyland, Julian was fine going without his mum and Cynthia spent time with Mal Evans after that; John had asked him to show her around. Acoording to her book on John, Cynthia had hopes of a better relationship with John, but not a getting back together one. She wanted it to be amicable at least.

Expert Textpert said
[... I have a question...why doesn't anyone ever show any sympathy for Yoko's situation with Kyoko? That situation is far worse than anything that ever happened to Julian. Her only child was kidnapped by Tony Cox and her whereabouts were completely secret...the minute they found out where she was, Cox would whisk her away to another location. John and Yoko spent forever trying to locate her and gain custody, and at the same time the United States government told Yoko that if John was deported, she would have to choose between her daughter (wherever she was) and her husband. In an interview on the Dick Cavett show, John talks about how Yoko had nightmares and would have an emotional breakdown if she saw a child on television.  

It must have been a nightmare for her, although, Kyoko is the one to feel  most sorry for. John and Yoko had also done their abuducting of Kyoko prior to that. It was a sorry mess. I understand that Cox's reason for going on the run, was his fear of never seeing his daughter due to the power of John and Yoko, I don't think that justifies what he did.

Yoko was a matriarch over John, just like his Aunt Mimi, but despite being a mother herself, she was involved in estranging John from his first son. When John went back to Yoko, after the "lost weekend" the relationship between John and Julian faltered again.

Would Mimi have liked any girl John was with? pretty unlikely.

   
 

 Image result for images of bowie and iggy pop

Tomorrow  belongs to those who can hear it coming.

16 December 2017
1.43pm
Avatar
Expert Textpert
In bed.
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4055
Member Since:
18 April 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Penny Lane said

Yoko was a matriarch over John, just like his Aunt Mimi, but despite being a mother herself, she was involved in estranging John from his first son. When John went back to Yoko, after the "lost weekend" the relationship between John and Julian faltered again.

   
   

That is what many Yoko detractors say, but I don’t necessarily think it’s true. When it comes to Yoko, you have to wade through the mire of misogyny, racism and baseless accusations before you reach the truth.

I don’t think John would lie about Cynthia being the one to prevent Julian from phoning him, but I guess you have no problem believing John would lie because that scenario backs up your preconception that Yoko is at fault.

"Stop throwing jelly beans at me." --George Harrison

16 December 2017
2.34pm
Avatar
Starr Shine?
Waiting in the sky
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 15278
Member Since:
1 November 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

John could if seen him more if he wanted to.

The following people thank Starr Shine? for this post:

penny lane

https://youtu.be/52nwiTs7bk8

Brainwashed by RadiantCowbells.

If you can't log in and can't use the forum go here and someone will help you out.

16 December 2017
7.49pm
Avatar
Expert Textpert
In bed.
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4055
Member Since:
18 April 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

There are plenty of photos of John, Yoko and Julian in New York.

"Stop throwing jelly beans at me." --George Harrison

16 December 2017
8.09pm
Avatar
Ron Nasty
Apple rooftop
Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 8203
Member Since:
17 December 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

LennonLetter1.jpgImage Enlarger

LennonLetter2.jpgImage Enlarger

The following people thank Ron Nasty for this post:

Expert Textpert

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

 

The Beatles Non-Canon Poll List

16 December 2017
8.59pm
Avatar
Little Piggy Dragonguy
Nowhere Land
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 3671
Member Since:
5 November 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Expert Textpert said
I don’t think John would lie about Cynthia being the one to prevent Julian from phoning him, but I guess you have no problem believing John would lie because that scenario backs up your preconception that Yoko is at fault.  

John saying that Cynthia would not let Julian call him is an example of a cognitive distortion called mind reading. John Lennon was not a mind reader and he would not have been able to know why Julian wasn't calling when he wasn't even talking to Julian. I'm not sure I would say John was lying, however, as I think that's what he truly believed was going on, but that idea that it was due to Cynthia was something he made up in his own head.

What Julian has said is that when he would try to call his dad, it would go to Yoko first, and she would rarely put his call through to John (this is not an example of mind reading, thus making it more believable).

And like I said before, if John was so upset about not talking to his son, why couldn't he be the one to make the phone call? If John really wanted to see or talk to Julian, he would have. It doesn't have anything to do with Yoko even if she were trying to keep them apart. Maintaining a relationship with his child was John's responsibility, not Yoko's.

The following people thank Little Piggy Dragonguy for this post:

penny lane

All living things must abide by the laws of the shape they inhabit 

17 December 2017
5.29am
Avatar
penny lane
This most excellent canopy
Abbey Road
Members
Forum Posts: 98
Member Since:
18 September 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

The Open Letter from John sent whilst trying to stop Cynthia's book A Twist of Lennon from being published was needless. Both he and Yoko were spared a lot. But John does say in it he had no contact with Julian for several years. 

 

Expert Textpert said  
That is what many Yoko detractors say, but I don’t necessarily think it’s true. When it comes to Yoko, you have to wade through the mire of misogyny, racism and baseless accusations before you reach the truth.

I don’t think John would lie about Cynthia being the one to prevent Julian from phoning him, but I guess you have no problem believing John would lie because that scenario backs up your preconception that Yoko is at fault.  

So, Cynthia is trying every means to get back with John and at the same time disallowing her son from contacting his dad; not the best plan ever really.

Cynthia's explanation for this was that, she had been informed on the phone, after they moved to New York that any communication by her or Julian was to be done through Yoko. If  it's true, who would accept that? On this basis then Yoko is involved. As mercurial and self absorbed as Lennon was, as the adult and father, it was his responsibility to contact his young son. Lennon expressed regrets for it later on. 

I agree Yoko faced a barrage of undeserved hate and predjudice, but she never was powerless or a victim. Far from it. We don't have Lennon's autobiography and even if we did, the truth would still be a muddle of differing perceptions. 

  

 Image result for images of bowie and iggy pop

Tomorrow  belongs to those who can hear it coming.

17 December 2017
7.50am
Avatar
Expert Textpert
In bed.
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4055
Member Since:
18 April 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Thanks @Ron Nasty for the scan of the letter. It shows that Cynthia twisted the truth to suit her own ends.

"Stop throwing jelly beans at me." --George Harrison

17 December 2017
9.42am
Avatar
Billy Rhythm
Shea Stadium
Members
Forum Posts: 816
Member Since:
22 December 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Was going to comment earlier on here but then stopped myself...  so here I am again, contemplating posting about something that's none of my(our) business...  These are family issues that really are between those directly involved and no one else...  While Cynthia wasn't one about hiding from expressing her undying love for John, and could indeed have seen the separation as an opportunity to win him back, her commitment to motherhood always came first...  She was just being a mother here and going by John's extracurricular activities during this time, she probably had good reason to limit John's visits with strict supervision...

Yoko, on the other hand, was just being a wife...  Dealing with an ex-lover on any level is always a strain for any relationship, understandable that she had her guard up where Cynthia's concerned...  However, both John & Yoko should've had the sense to know that an unbiased third party would've been the way to go if John was truly serious about being in Julian's life...

It's easy for us to comment on the situation from an obscured distance, but for those involved the solutions to their problems aren't so simple...  In time, things eventually got sorted out between them...  Too bad that much of it happened after John's death...  At the end of the day, Julian Lennon turned out to be one fine human being...  I'd say that the parties involved got this one right after all...:-)

The following people thank Billy Rhythm for this post:

Ahhh Girl, Zig
17 December 2017
1.01pm
Avatar
Little Piggy Dragonguy
Nowhere Land
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 3671
Member Since:
5 November 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Expert Textpert said
Thanks @Ron Nasty for the scan of the letter. It shows that Cynthia twisted the truth to suit her own ends.  

And what this is here is an example of the cognitive distortion called selective abstraction, or filtering. There is no sufficient evidence that proves John's words to be more veracious than Cynthia's, but her words are being dismissed, while John's are being hailed as the unequivocal truth because John's narrative is the one that seems more desirable to believe in. 

All living things must abide by the laws of the shape they inhabit 

17 December 2017
2.26pm
Avatar
Expert Textpert
In bed.
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4055
Member Since:
18 April 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

If my ex kept my son from calling, only let him visit when she came along, and tried to get me to give her more babies during the visit, I might not be so keen on seeing my son either.

But the photographic evidence contradicts Julian’s claims. Julian saw John more often than he claims.

"Stop throwing jelly beans at me." --George Harrison

17 December 2017
3.03pm
Avatar
Little Piggy Dragonguy
Nowhere Land
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 3671
Member Since:
5 November 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Expert Textpert said
If my ex kept my son from calling, only let him visit when she came along, and tried to get me to give her more babies during the visit, I might not be so keen on seeing my son either.

If the love a parent has for their child is overpowered by the contempt they have for their child's other parent, that person is scum and doesn't deserve to have any type of relationship with their child. It's pretty pathetic when parents are so immature that they cannot get along with, or even tolerate the other parent and caretaker of their child. It's probably a good thing you don't have kids, because from that post it sounds like you would suck.

All living things must abide by the laws of the shape they inhabit 

17 December 2017
3.22pm
Avatar
Expert Textpert
In bed.
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4055
Member Since:
18 April 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Why don’t you try to be less insulting?

"Stop throwing jelly beans at me." --George Harrison

17 December 2017
3.22pm
Avatar
The Hole Got Fixed
A Dock at Southampton
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4005
Member Since:
27 November 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Oi, you two:stay-on-topicstay-on-topicstay-on-topicstay-on-topic

The following people thank The Hole Got Fixed for this post:

Beatlebug, WeepingAtlasCedars

Oh, by the way, this post was made by The Hole Got Fixed!

2016 awards: Username-Badge.png 2017 awards: The-Hole-Got-Fixed-2017.png

17 December 2017
3.35pm
Avatar
Little Piggy Dragonguy
Nowhere Land
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 3671
Member Since:
5 November 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

That is me trying to be less insulting...

All living things must abide by the laws of the shape they inhabit 

17 December 2017
3.40pm
Avatar
Expert Textpert
In bed.
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4055
Member Since:
18 April 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Little Piggy Dragonguy said
That is me trying to be less insulting...  

Well you suck as much at not insulting me as you think I would at being Julian’s dad.

The following people thank Expert Textpert for this post:

Beatlebug

"Stop throwing jelly beans at me." --George Harrison

This topic is locked No permission to create posts
Forum Timezone: America/Chicago

Most Users Ever Online: 597

Currently Online: Ahhh Girl, Tony Japanese
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

Starr Shine?: 15278

Beatlebug: 12343

Ron Nasty: 8203

Necko: 7775

parlance: 7111

mr. Sun king coming together: 6411

Mr. Kite: 6148

trcanberra: 6039

AppleScruffJunior: 5435

mithveaen: 4611

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 87

Members: 2507

Moderators: 4

Admins: 2

Forum Stats:

Groups: 3

Forums: 44

Topics: 4593

Posts: 289330

Newest Members:

JennyDavisTon, Lennon4ever, Jenna_Tools, The Shrekenator, jenna tools

Moderators: Ahhh Girl: 16585, meanmistermustard: 21763, Zig: 9779, Joe: 4998

Administrators: Joe: 4998, Ellie: 4

Members Birthdays
sp_BirthdayIcon
Today: None
Upcoming: None