Please consider registering
Guest
sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_Feed sp_TopicIcon
What is going wrong with the Forum?
15 October 2015
6.17pm
Avatar
Starr Shine?
Waiting in the sky
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 15961
Member Since:
1 November 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Von Bontee said
Or maybe it wasn't possible...I can't recall.

I think he said it wasn't possible. Their are a bunch of things about this forum that he can't change since I think this forum is a template.

The following people thank Starr Shine? for this post:

Von Bontee

https://youtu.be/52nwiTs7bk8

Brainwashed by RadiantCowbells.

If you can't log in and can't use the forum go here and someone will help you out.

15 October 2015
7.23pm
Wigwam
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1913
Member Since:
17 October 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

As for the race to the roof top being a factor........

When Anna or Ahh girl said I'd made it to 'Shea Stadium' I didn't have a clue what she was on about. 

I got to BB thanks to Joe's info and the comments under each song.........How?why? I got to the forum I can't recall. Why I'm still here?.... It grew on me. Probably by having a difference of opinion with Nasty or MMM......Or being able to express my feelings for Yoko, (though I do feel gagged to some extent nowadays as I don't want to upset the people who see her so very differently). I agree with MMM's post above in that regard. 

15 October 2015
9.21pm
MarthaMyDear
A Beginning
Members
Forum Posts: 6
Member Since:
13 September 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Having been a member of a fantastically supported forum for many years, plus an admin of another fan forum, (plus a member of various others), and having watched the slow decline of those first two, I think much of the decline in forum usage in general has to do with other social media. Bloody facebook sucks the life out of so much online time. It's easier for people to like a FB page and have the photos, chat, etc. hand-delivered to their phones. No effort. Me, I love forums.

The following people thank MarthaMyDear for this post:

Starr Shine?, ewe2, Beatlebug
16 October 2015
7.19am
Avatar
Joe
Pepperland
Admin
Forum Posts: 5184
Member Since:
31 March 2008
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

I think there are a few reasons, many of which have already been mentioned. Firstly, I had to turn off email notifications and subscriptions because they stopped working. I'm still unsure why. People were getting other people's alerts, couldn't change their subscriptions etc. I think stopping them meant a lot of people weren't getting email reminders to come back, so they never visited again.

Secondly, traffic to this site has generally flatlined in the last couple of years, excepting the February 2014 bump for the American Invasion anniversary. I was once on the second page of Google for searches for 'beatles' (when browsing anonymously/incognito to avoid history or cookies influencing results), ie number 11-20. I'm now on page five of the UK results, 50-something, and the US version seems to only rank my Candlestick Park page for that 'beatles' search term (ie it ignores the homepage altogether, which sometimes happens). Searching for individual songs or albums does tend to return my site quite well, so all's not lost. If people want to know about I Am The Walrus or Don't Let Me Down , there's a good chance they'll find me.

There might be any number of reasons for the traffic drop, including: changes in the Google algorithm; lack of site updates; other sites being more relevant. Search engine optimisation (SEO) is a complicated business populated by snake-oil salespeople, but it's something all site owners need to consider.

Sign-ups to the forum have slowed too, probably a result of the general decline in traffic. There's always been a churn in the number of active members, with people moving on and new ones taking their place. That's to be expected. What's more troubling is that there aren't so many new sign-ups as there used to be.

I wonder if some of the forum restructuring put people off. Back in the day people could start a thread on the strings on Eleanor Rigby ; another on the stereo panning on Eleanor Rigby , and another on the gravestone of Eleanor Rigby in Woolton. Then we combined everything of relevance into master threads for each song. Perhaps there's the sense that a lot of what's to be said already has been.

I know we put a lot of people off by culling some of the forum games and making them Beatles-only. I really needed to do that. I'm sure we lost some people along the way but I don't want to change it back.

Can we blame Parlance? I'm only joking, of course, but she's one of the active members who really made a difference by starting threads and posting news etc. I know many other people do the same, I just singled her out as an example of a very active poster who had to take a break to get on with real-life stuff. When that happens and nobody else is there to fill the void it becomes very noticeable. We've had similar drop-outs in the past, from people like skye, mithveaen, fabfouremily. I've never wanted anyone to feel obliged to stick around here, but when one of your all-time top posters goes AWOL it's always noticeable. Perhaps this is a natural ebb and the forum will become more active without any intervention.

But I need to take some responsibility here. As MMM said, I've been trying to fix various broken things and mostly-empty pages, fixing holes where they exist. I'm also making progress on my Beatles book that's been a work-in-progress for about four years now (I'm very pleased with what I've done so far, though it's still some way off completion. Trust me, I want it to be available as soon as possible, but I'm not going to publish 100,000ish words unless I'm happy with them all).

I do visit the forum daily (unless ill/away), but most times it's a quick glance to make sure everything's OK. I also have to approve comments sent to the main part of the site, respond to emails, install updates, deal with server issues etc. It's difficult to balance this with staying visible, but I hope you realise that I'm working on stuff whenever I can.

The best way to grow traffic, apart from using snake-oil SEO methods, is to create new content and publish regularly. Ideally I should have 2-3 or more new things on the site every week. I used to do that in a day, but nowadays it's more like 2-3 a month. So the lower profile of the site is the most likely main cause of the forum traffic drop, and the best way to turn that around is for me to pull my finger out and write a whole lot more stuff to get Google to be my friend again. So that's what I need to do. Write stuff, as well as fix broken things, deal with feedback, keep everything running efficiently, post to the forum, deal with feedback etc. Someone's lent me an old 1963 Beatles scrapbook but wants it back, so I'm spending my lunch break scanning in pics. In the time it's taken me to write this I could have done something on Paul and Ringo's recent live shows. Anyone got a cloning device?

Zig makes an interesting point about the Thanks button. I've always seen it as a good thing (and I wish there was a similar acknowledgement button for emails), but I guess it has made a bit of a difference. That said, a post that gets 10 or so thanks would have been unlikely to get 10 or so replies doing the same. I don't know, I'd quite like to keep the button, unless people would rather it went.

Lastly, I'm so grateful to each and every person who regularly posts in this forum. It would be nothing without you. Thanks for sticking around.

The following people thank Joe for this post:

ewe2, Ahhh Girl, Starr Shine?, natureaker, meanmistermustard, Zig, Domino, trcanberra, Jolly Jimmy, Beatlebug, BeatleSnut, Von Bontee

Can buy me love! Please consider using these links to support the Beatles Bible: Amazon | iTunes
Or buy my paperback/ebook! Riding So High – The Beatles and Drugs

Don't miss The Bowie Bible – now live!

16 October 2015
9.05am
Avatar
Expert Textpert
In bed.
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4680
Member Since:
18 April 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Wigwam said

As for the race to the roof top being a factor........

When Anna or Ahh girl said I'd made it to 'Shea Stadium' I didn't have a clue what she was on about. 

I got to BB thanks to Joe's info and the comments under each song.........How?why? I got to the forum I can't recall. Why I'm still here?.... It grew on me. Probably by having a difference of opinion with Nasty or MMM......Or being able to express my feelings for Yoko, (though I do feel gagged to some extent nowadays as I don't want to upset the people who see her so very differently). I agree with MMM's post above in that regard. 

Maybe we should try a therapeutic exercise where you say only positive things about Yoko and I say only negative things.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

16 October 2015
9.33am
Avatar
Ahhh Girl
sailing on a winedark open sea
Moderator

Moderators

Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 19634
Member Since:
20 August 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I think we are all chipping in with the news coverage, but we don't always x-post it to the news thread. We just post it in a topical thread.

16 October 2015
3.56pm
Avatar
meanmistermustard
Here when I am. Not when I am not.
Moderator
Members

Reviewers


Moderators
Forum Posts: 23397
Member Since:
1 May 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Ahhh Girl said
I think we are all chipping in with the news coverage, but we don't always x-post it to the news thread. We just post it in a topical thread.

Yeah i do this. I now generally only post it in the news if it is actually newsworthy on its own like Ringo's new album.

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris)

16 October 2015
7.26pm
Wigwam
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1913
Member Since:
17 October 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Expert Textpert said

Wigwam said

As for the race to the roof top being a factor........

When Anna or Ahh girl said I'd made it to 'Shea Stadium' I didn't have a clue what she was on about. 

I got to BB thanks to Joe's info and the comments under each song.........How?why? I got to the forum I can't recall. Why I'm still here?.... It grew on me. Probably by having a difference of opinion with Nasty or MMM......Or being able to express my feelings for Yoko, (though I do feel gagged to some extent nowadays as I don't want to upset the people who see her so very differently). I agree with MMM's post above in that regard. 

Maybe we should try a therapeutic exercise where you say only positive things about Yoko and I say only negative things.

OK .........You start. 555

16 October 2015
8.22pm
Avatar
Expert Textpert
In bed.
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4680
Member Since:
18 April 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Wigwam said

Expert Textpert said

Wigwam said

As for the race to the roof top being a factor........

When Anna or Ahh girl said I'd made it to 'Shea Stadium' I didn't have a clue what she was on about. 

I got to BB thanks to Joe's info and the comments under each song.........How?why? I got to the forum I can't recall. Why I'm still here?.... It grew on me. Probably by having a difference of opinion with Nasty or MMM......Or being able to express my feelings for Yoko, (though I do feel gagged to some extent nowadays as I don't want to upset the people who see her so very differently). I agree with MMM's post above in that regard. 

Maybe we should try a therapeutic exercise where you say only positive things about Yoko and I say only negative things.

OK .........You start. 555

1. She sings off key sometimes.
2. She did heroin behind John's back.
3. She makes up her own version of the truth.
4. She is obsessed with maintaining her own image.
5. She cheated on John.
6. She comes off as rude and insensitive and stuck up sometimes.
7. She bought way too many fur coats.
8. She kind of ruins that Chuck Berry performance with John.
9. She cursed in front of the children's choir for the Happy Xmas sessions.
10. She's a control freak.

Your turn. You have to do 10.

The following people thank Expert Textpert for this post:

Starr Shine?, Wigwam, Beatlebug, Von Bontee

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

16 October 2015
8.51pm
Avatar
Starr Shine?
Waiting in the sky
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 15961
Member Since:
1 November 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

^ thumbs for therapeutic! 

https://youtu.be/52nwiTs7bk8

Brainwashed by RadiantCowbells.

If you can't log in and can't use the forum go here and someone will help you out.

16 October 2015
10.51pm
Wigwam
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1913
Member Since:
17 October 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Expert Textpert said

Wigwam said

Expert Textpert said

Wigwam said

As for the race to the roof top being a factor........

When Anna or Ahh girl said I'd made it to 'Shea Stadium' I didn't have a clue what she was on about. 

I got to BB thanks to Joe's info and the comments under each song.........How?why? I got to the forum I can't recall. Why I'm still here?.... It grew on me. Probably by having a difference of opinion with Nasty or MMM......Or being able to express my feelings for Yoko, (though I do feel gagged to some extent nowadays as I don't want to upset the people who see her so very differently). I agree with MMM's post above in that regard. 

Maybe we should try a therapeutic exercise where you say only positive things about Yoko and I say only negative things.

OK .........You start. 555

1. She sings off key sometimes.
2. She did heroin behind John's back.
3. She makes up her own version of the truth.
4. She is obsessed with maintaining her own image.
5. She cheated on John.
6. She comes off as rude and insensitive and stuck up sometimes.
7. She bought way too many fur coats.
8. She kind of ruins that Chuck Berry performance with John.
9. She cursed in front of the children's choir for the Happy Xmas sessions.
10. She's a control freak.

Your turn. You have to do 10.

Oh come on!

Ten!!.........You swine!

OK.

1.She knew how to use her sexuality to gain control and attention........( I definitely would have!) 'Cut Piece' was fun and daring. 

2. She sings on key sometimes.

3. She knew what she wanted out of life and has gotten it.

4. She's perhaps the only Japanese personality that most people could name.

5. Looks good at 80+ in a top-hat and behind the impenetrable glasses she's used since she swept the hair away from her face. 

6. She has unbounded confidence in herself.

7. She was able to establish what it was that John needed and at least initially supplied it.

8. I like white paint and Japanese minimalist decor too.........(Struggling here).

9. She was John's inspiration for many songs and the soundscape of this number.

10.This space for others to imagine.....(                                                                                                                   ).     

The following people thank Wigwam for this post:

Beatlebug, O Boogie, Von Bontee
17 October 2015
8.52am
Avatar
Expert Textpert
In bed.
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4680
Member Since:
18 April 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Good job. It was hard for me too, I struggled at the end. There's good and bad in everyone.

Was it positive for you to see me write the negative things? I feel better about you now. I thought you were mostly all right before.

The following people thank Expert Textpert for this post:

Joe, Zig

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

17 October 2015
6.49pm
Wigwam
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1913
Member Since:
17 October 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Seeing that you are not taken in by her did help. 

I can accept that you just happen to like her work. It really was therapeutic. Well done.

If I do ever get at her in the future please don't take it personally.......It's just sometimes she makes me want to scream ....5555.

The following people thank Wigwam for this post:

Joe, Zig
17 October 2015
7.18pm
Avatar
Expert Textpert
In bed.
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4680
Member Since:
18 April 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Wigwam said

Seeing that you are not taken in by her did help. 

I can accept that you just happen to like her work. It really was therapeutic. Well done.

If I do ever get at her in the future please don't take it personally.......It's just sometimes she makes me want to scream ....5555.

Great. I'll do my best to understand.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

18 October 2015
6.25am
Avatar
Ron Nasty
Apple rooftop
Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 11042
Member Since:
17 December 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Thanks everybody for your considered responses, especially @Joe for your detailed analysis.

I apologise for not coming back sooner but I've been sick as a dog the past couple of days, lurgy (bad return)!

I didn't start this thread aiming to be controversial (though knew it could be, depending on how people responded). Many of us have noted the lull the forum seems to be going through at the moment, and has been going through for a while. I wanted to see if any of us who use the forum regularly had any good ideas, as the responsibility for the success (or not) of the Forum is largely down to its members.

There have been some interesting points raised.

Obviously, as others have pointed out, the big 50th anniversary gave a good bump for a while, while the games restrictions (as Joe acknowledges, though rightly standing by a decision he believes right for the Forum in the long term) probably did some damage as they were often the most popular threads. I still disagree but respect Joe's position.

Like @Expert Textpert, I often find the level of Yoko-hate uncomfortable. I don't mind negative views of her, mine aren't wholly positive - though more positive than many. I find it distasteful when, as often happens, someone posts just to make a personal insult. The most recent example of, you can see for yourself who it was, was with her Daily Beast interview. A fascinating interview, whichever side you're on, yet all somebody took from it was the opportunity to insinuate that she is ugly. I'd have rather they'd posted their views on an interesting interview, rather than find another opportunity to kick her for the fun of kicking her. I was pleased to see @meanmistermustard and @Wigwam respond to that in the way they did, though neither are big Yoko fans.

It is never good for the Forum when nastiness rules so far as any character involved in the story is concerned. Argue points that you want to with collaborating evidence where possible, as I believe @Zig requested recently, but just as the rules of the Forum ask us to be respectful to other members, we should also be respectful to the more controversial figures involved in the story.

What does someone insinuating that Yoko is ugly add to the conversation?

However, Ex Tex, as someone who has no belief in most conspiracy theories, and knowing I've made that clear, if that is something you'd like to discuss there should be nothing to stop you. In the same breath, you have to be ready for others to disagree with your opinion, sometimes strongly. If you believe something, argue it, try to change minds, but don't ever believe people disagreeing, however strongly, is personal, or means they will view you differently.

Take the canon/non-canon debate that has been going on for the past couple of years, a debate that I was largely responsible for starting. A majority seem to disagree with mine and mmm's view, but the debate is (nearly) always respectful of the differing views.

The only time a discussion of any subject is ill-advised is if you're expecting people to agree with you. On awkward subjects, opinions, expect voices that disagree, and be prepared to give those the thought you have given your own. There's nothing wrong with believing something, but it is a shame if you avoid a subject because others might disagree. Never post expecting agreement with your point of view, but never don't post because you don't think others will see it as you do. If you are strong in your conviction (as I and mmm have been over the canon/non-canon debate), people disagreeing changes nothing. And, who knows, some (including me) might learn something from your viewpoint.

As I have said previously, the success of the Forum is down to those who contribute. If the discussion is good, which it largely is, they will come. I just worry that a quiet Forum isn't an appealing Forum.

One final thought, for Joe, have you thought about becoming part of this. If you search for best Beatles sites, it's always near the top.

The following people thank Ron Nasty for this post:

Ahhh Girl, Joe, Expert Textpert, Zig, Beatlebug, BeatleSnut

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

To @ Ron Nasty it's @ mja6758
The Beatles Bible 2020 non-Canon Poll Part One: 1958-1963 and Part Two: 1964-August 1966

18 October 2015
5.09pm
Avatar
Joe
Pepperland
Admin
Forum Posts: 5184
Member Since:
31 March 2008
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Thanks Ron. Some good points, as ever. And yeah, disagreements are good, as long as they're honestly held opinions and not people being contrary for its own sake. Passion is contagious.

I don't have much else to add, but I'm not too bothered about a partial slowdown in traffic. It'll pick up again, and there's clearly a correlation with a faltering Google ranking and the number of active forum members. I will see if I can get the notifications working again though.

I hadn't seen that list of top 100 sites before, and I'm not sure how its scores are calculated. I'm not too bothered about being part of it, but thanks for sharing the link.

The following people thank Joe for this post:

Ahhh Girl, meanmistermustard, Zig

Can buy me love! Please consider using these links to support the Beatles Bible: Amazon | iTunes
Or buy my paperback/ebook! Riding So High – The Beatles and Drugs

Don't miss The Bowie Bible – now live!

18 October 2015
5.21pm
Avatar
trcanberra
Oz
Apple rooftop
Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 6064
Member Since:
29 August 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Wigwam said
I think it coincided with that bloke Atlas joining?

Yes, pretty much this 🙂

 

I think that part of it is just that some formerly very active people have been less so of late, often just for "life" reasons.

==> trcanberra and hongkonglady - Together even when not (married for those not in the know!) <==

18 October 2015
5.24pm
Avatar
trcanberra
Oz
Apple rooftop
Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 6064
Member Since:
29 August 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

And as for "Search engine optimisation (SEO) is a complicated business populated by snake-oil salespeople"

Yes, very much so. I find Google and other search engines becoming less and less useful as the results are skewed by people whose job it is to skew them - so that the more useful sites (like this one) can end up on page 10 of search results below scads of well-disguised commercial sites.

The following people thank trcanberra for this post:

Joe

==> trcanberra and hongkonglady - Together even when not (married for those not in the know!) <==

18 October 2015
6.01pm
Avatar
Jolly Jimmy
Shea Stadium
Members
Forum Posts: 817
Member Since:
4 August 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

As a fairly new member, I find  absolutely nothing wrong with the website.  I enjoy everything I see here.  I visit it every day although I admit sometimes it's an ego thing to see if somebody responded to something I said.  My fear is that there are only so many songs and topics to write about.  Maybe I will run out of things to say at some point in time.

I am not a Facebook member and rarely look at Twitter.  And I do not own a smart phone.  I hate the way these things are taking over our culture when it should just be something a few people do for a hobby.  Perhaps my retro lifestyle from 5 years ago makes me a good fit for the Beatles Bible and this forum.

I agree that the games should be restricted to just Beatle topics as mentioned above.  But for those who feel differently, I see no harm in starting a game in the non-Beatle All Together Now section.

The following people thank Jolly Jimmy for this post:

trcanberra, Joe, natureaker, Beatlebug

You are all my friends.

19 October 2015
5.04am
Avatar
Joe
Pepperland
Admin
Forum Posts: 5184
Member Since:
31 March 2008
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Jolly Jimmy said
As a fairly new member, I find  absolutely nothing wrong with the website.  I enjoy everything I see here.  I visit it every day although I admit sometimes it's an ego thing to see if somebody responded to something I said.  My fear is that there are only so many songs and topics to write about.  Maybe I will run out of things to say at some point in time.

You'd be surprised. I started this site in 2008, thinking I'd be able to complete it in a year, maybe two. I'm still nowhere near finishing all the things I want to do. There's a bunch of videos and images to sift through and add to articles, solo-era songs and albums to write about, history post-1970 to document, and I'm aware that the song articles aren't as comprehensive as they might be (because I've learnt so much since I wrote them). I'm nearly 40 and could quite happily spend the rest of my days adding new material to the site.

I think it's a similar thing for general Beatles discussions. There's always news, new theories, revisions of opinions, and newly-uncovered info. Sure, people might run out of things to say, but the Beatles' story is endless. Very few people know everything about all the songs and albums, group and solo (and if they did, they'd probably have loads to say about them anyway). Keep learning, keep discussing.

I agree that the games should be restricted to just Beatle topics as mentioned above.  But for those who feel differently, I see no harm in starting a game in the non-Beatle All Together Now section.

Yeah, please don't do that. We used to have non-Beatles games and it overran the forum, to the point where most of the new posts were games with no connection to the group. I put a stop to it, which wasn't a popular move but I needed to bring the focus of the forum back to the Beatles. It was discussed a lot at the time.

The following people thank Joe for this post:

Jojo McCartney, Zig, Beatlebug

Can buy me love! Please consider using these links to support the Beatles Bible: Amazon | iTunes
Or buy my paperback/ebook! Riding So High – The Beatles and Drugs

Don't miss The Bowie Bible – now live!

Forum Timezone: America/Chicago
Most Users Ever Online: 700
Currently Online: Teddy Salad
Guest(s) 1
Top Posters:
Starr Shine?: 15961
Ron Nasty: 11042
50yearslate: 8663
Necko: 7920
AppleScruffJunior: 7247
parlance: 7111
mr. Sun king coming together: 6403
Mr. Kite: 6147
trcanberra: 6064
sir walter raleigh: 5191
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 88
Members: 2592
Moderators: 6
Admins: 1
Forum Stats:
Groups: 3
Forums: 44
Topics: 4950
Posts: 353330
Newest Members:
acissej123.ji, Onio, B. Webb 1974, Nuffgood, eureka yess
Moderators: Joe: 5184, Zig: 9812, meanmistermustard: 23397, Ahhh Girl: 19634, Beatlebug: 17418, The Hole Got Fixed: 8035
Administrators: Joe: 5184