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Announcement: Changes to All Together Now
6 March 2018
5.34pm
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Billy Rhythm
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This move gets my support...  The 'All Together Now ' section has become an eyesore to this forum, in my opinion...  Some may view it as The Most Popular Spot here, simply because it gets the most new replies, etc., but that's a little misleading I think...  It's a hotspot for a smaller group of posters who post there more frequently than in the other areas about Beatles, giving an illusion of 'Most Popular'...  The vast majority of items in 'All Together Now ' belong elsewhere on the net...  While some may indeed come here to "socialize", I for one come here to be "anti-social" and escape into the World of The Beatles...  There's private avenues here available for those posters who want to meet up to socialize elsewhere...

 

I guess I appreciate the gesture of "informing us" and making us feel like we have a voice around here, but the Administrator/Moderators should move on forward with what they have all ready discussed...  Flipping through what ideas have been presented here underscores the need for the Powers That Be to forge ahead with their vision...  This very thread has all ready turned into exactly what Joe & The Moderators are trying to rid the forum of...  Another thread chock full of nonsense that doesn't have a whole lot to do with The Beatles...  Don't let the inmates run the asylum here...  Do what you're gonna do and be done with it...  Yes, there'll be some who are very disappointed but there's no way to know how many prospective new members have been scared off upon first click in the past by some of the trip overflowing from the 'All Together Now ' section...  Make way for some more Beatles' fans around here...:-)

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6 March 2018
6.04pm
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Ahhh Girl
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@Billy Rhythm, do you read any of the posts/threads in the All Together Now section or do you ignore them?

To those who have joined us lately, did ATN scare you? I wish we had a way to really know if people refused to join the forum because of ATN . Seems crazy to me if ATN keeps anyone from joining in the Beatles talk here (other than DO bring up vileness that I totally believe needs to be squished like a pimple on the face of the forum). No one is forced to read or reply to ATN . But, maybe I am in the minority.

6 March 2018
7.19pm
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meanmistermustard
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Ahhh Girl said
@Billy Rhythm, do you read any of the posts/threads in the All Together Now section or do you ignore them?

To those who have joined us lately, did ATN scare you? I wish we had a way to really know if people refused to join the forum because of ATN . Seems crazy to me if ATN keeps anyone from joining in the Beatles talk here (other than DO bring up vileness that I totally believe needs to be squished like a pimple on the face of the forum). No one is forced to read or reply to ATN . But, maybe I am in the minority.  

I can see how having so many active threads discussing non-Beatles stuff can put off someone looking to talk Beatles. As said before, at times more than half of the active threads can be about anything but the Beatles, for a supposed Beatles forum that very well may put off interested parties. Who knows? It's not like we can ask them.

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6 March 2018
8.03pm
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Ahhh Girl
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I know. I wish we had empirical evidence.

6 March 2018
9.06pm
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Ahhh Girl
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I should add that I don't want news and controversial social issues brought up in Impossible to Derail either.

I am glad Joe is giving us this outlet to work on compromises. For example, what we are eating can be posted in Impossible to Derail if we save another thread many people are passionate about.

6 March 2018
9.15pm
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Ron Nasty
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Ahhh Girl said
I should add that I don't want news and controversial social issues brought up in Impossible to Derail either. 

So, you want to turn the Impossible to Derail thread into a Totally Possible to Derail thread if subjects you don't want discussed are brought up, @Ahhh Girl?

That's even more disappointing than Joe, yours, and the other mods initial decision.

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6 March 2018
10.49pm
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The Hole Got Fixed
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Sorry @Billy Rhythm but I have to derail this thread, as it seems that even if I posted this in the appropriate thread (the derail thread), you wouldn't read it. SO here it is:

You can't use ellipses as a full stop! An ellipsis, from wikipedia, 'indicates an intentional omission of a word, sentence, or whole section from a text without altering its original meaning.'

Those two sentences you wrote broke my head.

stay-on-topic

You also say that we shouldn't be allowed to say ANYTHING non-Beatles related, at least that's how I understood your message. Please don't try to tell me that you've never gone off on a tangent in real life/facebook/texts/whatever before, it's simply not possible for a human brain to keep on task 100% of the time. We need at least some form of outlet to express other ideas here, because other forumpudlians are a wealth of knowledge really. There are numerous people here who, say, may be able to help me with a chord progression I can't resolve properly. PMing may not fix the problem - someone who I didn't know could help me may have the solution. That's what a forum is for. And consider this is a forum about music (albeit a very specific aspect of music).

And even if you don't use it, no need to punish others by taking away something that won't affect you, but will definitely affect others.

And RN has a point, @Ahhh Girl. Let's say we hear about a mass shooting in London. Are you saying we aren't allowed to post that in the derail thread, even to see if our London forumpudlians are ok?

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7 March 2018
2.49am
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meanmistermustard
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For me, the big issue is that such discussions as daily news events are in their own thread. ITD will allow whoever to make sure people are safe and can discuss if they want just not in their separate threads, if you want to discuss it more there are a ton of external places online to discuss it all in depth, Anna's forum, thru PM. 

Currently, we have separate threads for philosophy, debates, controversial opinions, daily events and who knows what else, all of which can cover the same topics and there is no reason those cannot be continued in ITD, except for liking it all separate. And in truth do we really need to be having in-depth discussions on abortions, gun laws, consensual sex laws etc on a Beatles forum. The last conversation in here was about visitors potentially being put off by ATN ; walking in and finding a discussion on incest will have happened to some people. Even the most determined for ATN to not be touched cannot look at that and not think WTF!!!'. Saying "well, don't read that" misses the basic reason for there being a forum in the first place.

Our job as mods is to maintain and sustain the fundamental principles of the forum and one key principle is Joe's original vision of a Beatles forum which allows some [light] discussion on other topics. Somewhere along the line we have let that fall, now we are working to get that back. It's been comforting and reassuring to see the suggestions put forward and hopefully those will continue. Already we are seeing a direction to go for how to shape the forum for the better.

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7 March 2018
3.06am
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The Hole Got Fixed said
Sorry @Billy Rhythm but I have to derail this thread, as it seems that even if I posted this in the appropriate thread (the derail thread), you wouldn't read it. SO here it is:

You can't use ellipses as a full stop! An ellipsis, from wikipedia, 'indicates an intentional omission of a word, sentence, or whole section from a text without altering its original meaning.'

Those two sentences you wrote broke my head.

stay-on-topic

You also say that we shouldn't be allowed to say ANYTHING non-Beatles related, at least that's how I understood your message. Please don't try to tell me that you've never gone off on a tangent in real life/facebook/texts/whatever before, it's simply not possible for a human brain to keep on task 100% of the time. We need at least some form of outlet to express other ideas here, because other forumpudlians are a wealth of knowledge really. There are numerous people here who, say, may be able to help me with a chord progression I can't resolve properly. PMing may not fix the problem - someone who I didn't know could help me may have the solution. That's what a forum is for. And consider this is a forum about music (albeit a very specific aspect of music).

And even if you don't use it, no need to punish others by taking away something that won't affect you, but will definitely affect others.

And RN has a point, @Ahhh Girl. Let's say we hear about a mass shooting in London. Are you saying we aren't allowed to post that in the derail thread, even to see if our London forumpudlians are ok?  

As has been said previously by many, the forum will not be Beatles only in content. That is not what we are doing here and neither does Joe or any of the mods have any intention of seeing the forum become 100% Beatles all the time. 

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris) 

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7 March 2018
3.08am
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Ahhh Girl
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Getting rid of controversial social topics so Turn It Up or Down (insert thread of your choosing) can remain a thread. Would that be a compromise people are willing to make?

How can we save music and other threads in ATN while losing most of the threads that cause problems and may put people off from using the forum)?

Derail could be used to have forumpudlians check in to make sure they are ok in a situation like that, but discussion about the shooting should happen elsewhere.

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7 March 2018
3.34am
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Shamrock Womlbs
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I think that the Turn it up/Down thing could be prefectly done in the Imposible to derail thread, only that it will not be as fluid as it is on its own thread, of course.
Same thing for the "What are you listening to right now".
Anyway, about these two threads i was wondering... could it be possible to create another subcategory in the ATN (as those Yesterday ..and today subcategories) called "Music playing in your head" (just an example to make it more Beatley) and then people could create threads there like "Turn it up or down" and so...?

"I Need You by George Harrison"

7 March 2018
3.41am
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Shamrock Womlbs said
I think that the Turn it up/Down thing could be prefectly done in the Imposible to derail thread, only that it will not be as fluid as it is on its own thread, of course.
Same thing for the "What are you listening to right now".
Anyway, about these two threads i was wondering... could it be possible to create another subcategory in the ATN (as those Yesterday ..and today subcategories) called "Music playing in your head" (just an example to make it more Beatley) and then people could create threads there like "Turn it up or down" and so...?  

Personally, I'd rather meld 'Turn it up/Down' with 'What are you listening to right now', i'm not too sure they both warrant a thread of their own. That's a personal opinion and not what is definitely going to happen. Others may think that is utterly stupid.

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris) 

"Don't make your love suffer insecurities; Trade the baggage of 'self' to set another one free" ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)

7 March 2018
3.43am
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Ron Nasty
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Ahhh Girl said
Getting rid of controversial social topics so Turn It Up or Down (insert thread of your choosing) can remain a thread. Would that be a compromise people are willing to make?

How can we save music and other threads in ATN while losing most of the threads that cause problems and may put people off from using the forum)?  

No, sorry AG, but you're disguising the choice you're suggesting. The choice you're suggesting is getting rid of Impossible to Derail to save another thread.

As soon as restrictions are placed on what can and cannot be posted in the Impossible to Derail thread (beyond the Forum-wide rules of respecting other opinions and not getting personal in response) it cannot be, by definition, Impossible to Derail. It's the nature of language, I'm afraid.

And, as I said in my first response on this course of action, as unwieldy as it makes it, having the Impossible to Derail thread, means the activity taking place in any thread that gets locked can continue in the Impossible to Derail.

Now, that may disappoint some of those who want to see certain lines of discussion removed from the Forum, mainly those who do not use or enjoy the social side of the Forum, but while we have the Impossible to Derail thread, be it current affairs, controversial social topics, Turn It Up or Turn It Down, or even What am I eating right now? can all carry on there.

Words have meanings, or are we getting Orwellian and changing the meaning of words? 

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7 March 2018
3.57am
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Ron Nasty said

No, sorry AG, but you're disguising the choice you're suggesting. The choice you're suggesting is getting rid of Impossible to Derail to save another thread.

As soon as restrictions are placed on what can and cannot be posted in the Impossible to Derail thread (beyond the Forum-wide rules of respecting other opinions and not getting personal in response) it cannot be, by definition, Impossible to Derail. It's the nature of language, I'm afraid.

And, as I said in my first response on this course of action, as unwieldy as it makes it, having the Impossible to Derail thread, means the activity taking place in any thread that gets locked can continue in the Impossible to Derail.

Now, that may disappoint some of those who want to see certain lines of discussion removed from the Forum, mainly those who do not use or enjoy the social side of the Forum, but while we have the Impossible to Derail thread, be it current affairs, controversial social topics, Turn It Up or Turn It Down, or even What am I eating right now? can all carry on there.

Words have meanings, or are we getting Orwellian and changing the meaning of words?   

There is a vast difference between wanting to reduce/remove controversial discussions and not enjoying the social side of the forum, and this is not even about people being social or not, it's about trying to get a Beatles forum back to where it once was.

And I'm sure there are some topics that really should not or do not need to be discussed on the forum be it in ATN or in their own threads anyway. 

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris) 

"Don't make your love suffer insecurities; Trade the baggage of 'self' to set another one free" ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)

7 March 2018
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The Hole Got Fixed
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meanmistermustard said
As has been said previously by many, the forum will not be Beatles only in content. That is not what we are doing here and neither does Joe or any of the mods have any intention of seeing the forum become 100% Beatles all the time.   

I was rebutting Billy Rhythm's point, not Joe's or any of the modsa-hard-days-night-george-10.

Ahhh Girl said
Getting rid of controversial social topics so Turn It Up or Down (insert thread of your choosing) can remain a thread. Would that be a compromise people are willing to make?

That's something I can live with. There's a line somewhere here, and regardless of how many things should/could be discussed in ATN , after all, this is a Beatles forum, and stuff like incest and elections etc. are going to turn people away. It's not necessary, and few people discuss it here anyway - few enough that those who really want to discuss controversial topics could start a PM group, or a Facebook Messenger group.

 

Though while people should be discouraged from posting certain things in ITD, as RN said - there's a reason that thread exists. To abuse it basically voids the point of having ATN in the first place, which then brings is back to the start of the discussion.

 

I'd like to make a poll. On a scale of 1-5, how important do you feel the Derail thread is to the forum?

Then some numbers can be crunched, and AG can get her statistics dosea-hard-days-night-paul-7

[sp_show_poll id="238"]

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7 March 2018
4.17am
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Ahhh Girl
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Thank you for seeing my point, Holey.

We can lock the current derail thread away and make a new thread that isn't called Impossible to derail. We can set restrictions on what topics can be discussed.

7 March 2018
4.29am
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Ron Nasty
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Glad that you've seen the point I'm making, @Ahhh Girl, and admitted that you are suggesting getting rid of Impossible to Derail and replacing it with something else that has restrictions placed on it.

@The Hole Got Fixed, can I check that 5 on your poll means important?

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7 March 2018
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Yes, 5 means importantpaul-mccartney-facepalm_gif sorry

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7 March 2018
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meanmistermustard said

Personally, I'd rather meld 'Turn it up/Down' with 'What are you listening to right now', i'm not too sure they both warrant a thread of their own. That's a personal opinion and not what is definitely going to happen. Others may think that is utterly stupid.  

One does, not the other. Both combined would be a mess like what happened with the life and what you doing right now. Only one was needed but both combined wasn't good.

I'd be like combining all the trivia game threads.

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7 March 2018
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Ahhh Girl
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Semantics a-hard-days-night-paul-11

Well, so, would you be ok with that change? Do you get why mmm, others, and I want some topics to be avoided on the forum?

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