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Announcement: Changes to All Together Now
5 March 2018
12.31pm
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Ahhh Girl
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I'm curious, ASJ, would you consider making a post in the thread for the book you are reading in the books forum and highlight interesting things you learned from reading it? Starr Shine?'s forum would be a good place to socialize with forumpudlians about other books you, and they, are reading.

Speaking of fortuitous randomness, Catro created a thread for random Beatles facts just yesterday paul-mccartney-thumb_gif
https://www.beatlesbible.com/f.....tles-fact/

As to how I would consider using Starr Shine?'s forum... I see it as a place where we can have expanded socializing opportunities with this group of people and not weigh down the Beatles Bible Fab Forum. Is there a Pet Peeves thread over there already? If not we need one. I have another microwave pet peeve I want to see if @Necko shares in common with me. Of course, if I ever have a pet peeve about a Beatles song, person, etc. I will find the right thread to post it in.

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Beatlebug
5 March 2018
12.34pm
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AppleScruffJunior
Sitting here doing nothing but procrastinating...
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Ahhh Girl said
I'm curious, ASJ, would you consider making a post in the thread for the book you are reading in the books forum and highlight interesting things you learned from reading it? Starr Shine?'s forum would be a good place to socialize with forumpudlians about other books you, and they, are reading.

I don't know if I'm slow or just tired but I don't understand your question a-hard-days-night-paul-10

 

INTROVERTS UNITE! Separately....in your own homes!

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5 March 2018
12.40pm
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AppleScruffJunior
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After much rereading, I finally understood it. Yes if it was to do with The Beatles, I'd do a 'Things I Learned' segment on it. I still have a write-up to do on 'Behind The Locked Door' which I finished Sunday. 

The following people thank AppleScruffJunior for this post:

Ahhh Girl, Beatlebug, meanmistermustard

 

INTROVERTS UNITE! Separately....in your own homes!

                 ***

Make Love, Not Wardrobes!

                ***

"Stop throwing jelly beans at me"- George Harrison

5 March 2018
12.44pm
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Ahhh Girl
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@SpecialCup, I suggested the idea of adding mods for ATN , but Joe wants more Beatles focus. That is all I know for now. I will allow Zig, mmm, and Joe to chime in with their thoughts.

I do agree with you that this is one of the most awesome forums on the internet.

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5 March 2018
12.50pm
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Starr Shine?
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A compromise could be making ATN a hidden group that members could opt in after some length of time/other requirements and posts counts could be not counted in this hidden ATN .

So not unlike the reviewers section.

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5 March 2018
12.56pm
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Ahhh Girl
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^ Creative! I like it.

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SpecialCup
5 March 2018
1.18pm
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penny lane
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SpecialCup said
 [...I do not believe that ATN in any way keeps people from enjoying the Beatles section of the forum,  The fact is that some posters have been here a long time and have almost exhausted anything new to discuss about the Beatles (until Lewisohn vol. 2 comes out in 2035), but are still the lifeblood of this place and really come here for the social aspect, paying tribute by posting occasionally in Beatles threads.
 I disagree that the "Listening" thread is inane and offers nothing. It is a place for posters to express themselves, have fun connecting over shared love of music, and discover new music. But gutting ATN entirely seems drastic.]  

Agree with your post SpecialCup. It would be (for all the reasons you stated) a meagre forum if it was entirely Beatles based. Like other members, there are many threads I don't go into; What are you eating? Dreaming? Birthdays, Languages etc. but others like it. Perhaps there are too many music related threads - What are you Listening to, Songs you are on a kick on, Concerts you've been to and Turn it Up/Down... Paul is Dead threadand that is in the Beatles section.

A thread for music, literature and current affairs is of interest on a forum. However, as democratic forums would dictate - the majority vote should win.

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SpecialCup, Vera Chuckandave

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Tomorrow  belongs to those who can hear it coming.

5 March 2018
1.20pm
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Starr Shine?
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Though forums aren't democratic in the end.

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5 March 2018
1.31pm
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penny lane
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Partially agree Starr Shine, but the aim is to allow open debate and voices to be heard, but preventing a rabble needs moderation. 

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SpecialCup

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5 March 2018
1.38pm
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meanmistermustard
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SpecialCup said
It's clear that many of the posters who strongly support the neutering of ATN will be the ones who don't post there much anyway and have no skin in the game. And those who don't like Joe's decision are more likely to be those who post a lot in ATN . I do not believe that ATN in any way keeps people from enjoying the Beatles section of the forum, as it is tucked away at the bottom of the page, and no one is forced to visit it if they aren't interested. Not sure if the intended strategy is to try to force more people onto Beatles threads if the non-Beatles threads are taken away, but it won't work. The fact is that some posters have been here a long time and have almost exhausted anything new to discuss about the Beatles (until Lewisohn vol. 2 comes out in 2035), but are still the lifeblood of this place and really come here for the social aspect, paying tribute by posting occasionally in Beatles threads. And others who are newer (like me) love the Beatles and were happy to discover other people who do too, and come back to the forum because of the genial social atmosphere. All of us who visit are helping to earn Joe ad revenue. It is going to be harder for users to get to know each other and connect socially if the discussion is restricted to Beatles and birthdays.

The discussions will not be restricted to "Beatles and birthdays". In My Life , Impossible To Detail and RiP will remain as will the Introduce Yourself thread where people can get to know each other. Instead of a quick hello and then into other threads to talk about their height and shoe sizes it can be used to get to know others and build friendships. If needs be we can always expand the name so it's more obvious to others. 

Joe might not be interested in posting on all the threads, but why does he need to like them all? I disagree that the forum is entirely Joe's. Yes, the site belongs to Joe, but a forum needs many active participants to survive and thrive, and it is the long time posters who have built and allowed the forum to succeed, while new blood helps keep it fresh. Because of the community built here, loyal posters have bought Joe's book, spread the word about it, and have written positive online reviews, actions which all help Joe.

Joe, I disagree that the "Listening" thread is inane and offers nothing. It is a place for posters to express themselves, have fun connecting over shared love of music, and discover new music. The other day Von Bontee posted some cool experimental piano thing I would've never been turned on to elsewhere. In any case, I think it is poor judgment to try to get rid of all music related threads or just have one mega thread. If anything, music threads are crucial to this forum. Lets be real; every person here is on this forum because of music, and the Beatles influence reaches into almost all modern popular music, so we ought to be able to talk about and share it.  And if we are going to keep the "Remembering Elvis" thread due to his influence on the Beatles, there should be room for Buddy Holly, Carl Perkins, Lonnie Donegan, Little Richard, Eddie Cochran, Everly Brothers, Gene Vincent, Big Bill Broonzy, Larry Williams, Barrett Strong, Crystals, Smokey, Shirelles threads as well. If we are gonna keep Beach Boys and Stones cause they were influenced by the Beatles, then why can't we also talk about Cheap Trick, Guns n Roses, Tom Petty, Todd Rundgren, Simon and Garfunkel, ELO, etc.?

I think there is agreement that there should be some music thread(s), the issue is how to contain it. As your list shows where does the line get drawn, and there has to be a line somewhere otherwise we'd have separate threads on god knows who, some with one or two posts.  We're hoping that an answer will present itself whilst listening to suggestions from everyone.

Seems to me the bottom line is that mods are burnt out and looking to cut their workload, which tells me there is a need for new or more mods, or the current ones should start getting paid a little something, then the non-Beatles threads might not seem like such a chore. This site is a mod's dream compared to any other forum out there. The community here is neither hostile nor fractious; seriously, most everyone here is respectful, even in disagreements. If someone starts a Bee Gees thread or a favorite fart thread and no one posts on it, its not like it's a ton of work for mods to police it. Just let it fall down to the bottom, and clean up as needed. But gutting ATN entirely seems drastic.  

The mods are not burnt out, we work to preserve the original vision and purpose of Joe's. Joe started the forum to discuss the Beatles and kindly gave a small corner for people to talk about other matters, over time that has spilt out and crowded the rest of the forum. All we are doing is trying to get back to the original intention. The community spirit is still much desired and we don't want to lose it but something has to be done. Hopefully users will see the positives and help shape the forum for the way ahead.

Keep the suggestions and comments  coming. 

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Zig

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5 March 2018
1.54pm
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Zig
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For those who have been around since or near the creation of The Beatles Bible, it should be no secret that this entire site is Joe’s labor of love. He created this site for Beatles fans. The Forum was created shortly thereafter with the intention of encouraging broader Beatles-based discussions than were allowed for at the bottom of his many articles related to the band, the songs, albums, etc…

Then, I joined The Forum - going on 8 years ago. From the beginning, I was (still am to some degree) a King Derailer. That is why I started the Derail thread. At the time, I thought it was harmless. I had no idea that the entire ATN section would become “Facebook Where Beatles Fans Hang Out”. During our recent emails regarding how to rein it back in and encourage more Beatles-based discussions, I openly apologized to Joe and my fellow Mods for creating this monster. Some of you may not understand this, but it all gets back to this one simple fact. It is Joe’s labor of love. I will help moderate it and defend its integrity to the best of my abilities.

Those who are not respecting this decision and only thinking of how this will affect themselves, I ask you to please reconsider your position. Instead of playing the part of dictator, Joe is telling you in advance what we have decided to do about this situation and is encouraging constructive feedback on how to potentially come to a compromise. Think about that. Think about how many hours of writing Joe has done over this entire site. Get outside the Forum and look around. It is astounding to think about the hours and hours of time it took him to create all of this over the years. To have all of that selfishly disregarded is equivalent to pissing on his front door.

It truly would be a shame if anyone left The Forum over this. For those of you who are providing constructive feedback, thank you. It shows you care. I look forward to more of this positivity.

apple01heart

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To the fountain of perpetual mirth, let it roll for all its worth. And all the children boogie.

5 March 2018
2.24pm
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Starr Shine?
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Those who are not respecting this decision and only thinking of how this will affect themselves, I ask you to please reconsider your position.

You don't have to agree with someone's choice to respect a decision.

I don't think ATN is a 'monster', the users of this forum I doubt are capable of creating such. Sure some threads don't suit everyone's fancy but it its' current state, there isn't a wretched hive of scum and villainy.

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5 March 2018
3.12pm
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meanmistermustard
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At times you come on and find that over half of the unread threads are ATN and talking nothing about the Beatles, that cannot be right on a Beatles forum and so needs to be addressed. And this is a Beatles forum first and foremost.

One of the issues is that we mods have let it get to such a state as we know how such a change will be taken but it's turning into anything goes.

This isn't something that was taken lightly, there has been months of discussions where it's been do we or not and it's always been left. We had to act but we want you to be a part of the way forward.

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5 March 2018
3.26pm
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Starr Shine?
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To look at this another way, how can we encourage Beatles discussion. Maybe have a thing where every day or few days, a thread/topic is highlighted and people talk about it?

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meanmistermustard

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5 March 2018
3.31pm
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Expert Textpert
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The off topic banter has gotten to the point that I just don't post here much anymore. If I log in and see that all I've missed is someone talking about their homework they have to turn in, then I just leave the forum and go elsewhere.

On the other hand, I can see limiting the discussion topics leading to an exodus of members who can't post in their favored threads.

But it might also eventually attract new people who do want to have more discussion of The Beatles.

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"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

5 March 2018
3.42pm
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The Hole Got Fixed
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I could write a lengthy post stating my position and why I'm not particularly happy with the imminent change either, but I feel I've thanked the relevant posts summing up my position.

Instead, I'll suggest some ways to not alienate half of all members. 

Starr Shine?'s suggestion of hiding ATN is a good idea. Maybe it's not necessarily number of posts that qualify you, but Joe and the Mods could decide who could get access to that sub-forum (say, any of the regular visitors).

Another, slightly more feasible idea could be to gradually phase out threads in ATN , to ease people in to the depths of 'no socialising'. Maybe start with all the really small, non-used threads, and the very inward looking ones, like eating, listening etc. Then maybe two or three weeks later, phase out some more threads that onoly encourage a little bit of conversation, like reading, song you're on a kick of etc. 

But only 5 threads is too drastic I think. These are the threads I'd cut it down to if I was el presidente:

In My Life
Introduce
Birthday
Derail
BB House
All Purpose Get To Know BBers
An all-purpose thread about instruments/songwriting etc, because many BBers play instruments and a great thing about this forum is all the advice you can get, especially on a topic like 'which guitar should I buy, help!
Catch all thread for other bands (but strongly discouraged from posting in often)
Beatles Bible Band (merge with BB Theme Song?)(this one must stay. This is a forum wide project a lot of people, especially ewe2, have invested a lot of time and effort into, I would be greatly unhappy to lose this thread)
YKYAHBBW (possibly move this to Getting Better ?)
Happy holidays (Christmas, Halloween, Thanksgiving etc)

I think 11 threads is still reasonable. 

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Oh, by the way, this post was made by The Hole Got Fixed!

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5 March 2018
3.47pm
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Beatlebug
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Thank you, @The Hole Got Fixed. john-lennon-salute_gif

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5 March 2018
3.48pm
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sir walter raleigh
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I agree with Holey on keeping the threads that encourage musicianship and collaboration. 

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SpecialCup

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5 March 2018
4.42pm
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meanmistermustard
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The Hole Got Fixed said
I could write a lengthy post stating my position and why I'm not particularly happy with the imminent change either, but I feel I've thanked the relevant posts summing up my position.

Instead, I'll suggest some ways to not alienate half of all members. 

Starr Shine?'s suggestion of hiding ATN is a good idea. Maybe it's not necessarily number of posts that qualify you, but Joe and the Mods could decide who could get access to that sub-forum (say, any of the regular visitors).

Another, slightly more feasible idea could be to gradually phase out threads in ATN , to ease people in to the depths of 'no socialising'. Maybe start with all the really small, non-used threads, and the very inward looking ones, like eating, listening etc. Then maybe two or three weeks later, phase out some more threads that onoly encourage a little bit of conversation, like reading, song you're on a kick of etc. 

But only 5 threads is too drastic I think. These are the threads I'd cut it down to if I was el presidente:

In My Life
Introduce
Birthday
Derail
BB House
All Purpose Get To Know BBers
An all-purpose thread about instruments/songwriting etc, because many BBers play instruments and a great thing about this forum is all the advice you can get, especially on a topic like 'which guitar should I buy, help!
Catch all thread for other bands (but strongly discouraged from posting in often)
Beatles Bible Band (merge with BB Theme Song?)(this one must stay. This is a forum wide project a lot of people, especially ewe2, have invested a lot of time and effort into, I would be greatly unhappy to lose this thread)
YKYAHBBW (possibly move this to Getting Better ?)
Happy holidays (Christmas, Halloween, Thanksgiving etc)

I think 11 threads is still reasonable.   

Thank you, @The Hole Got Fixed.

The following people thank meanmistermustard for this post:

The Hole Got Fixed

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris) 

"Don't make your love suffer insecurities; Trade the baggage of 'self' to set another one free" ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)

5 March 2018
6.56pm
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SpecialCup
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I like Starr Shine?'s private forum idea. Alternately, The Hole Got Fixed made good suggestions for threads to keep. However, I do think having one catch all thread for non-Beatles music discussion might get very confusing, unless there are subthreads for it.

Since meanmistermustard addressed me in this thread, I want to reply. I apologize for my incorrect assumption that the mods are burnt out. I got that impression from Joe's comments in his earlier posts:  "it's become much harder to manage and moderate," "out of control," "overrun," "we have to do it for our sanity's sake," "many more non-Beatles discussions, all of which would have to be moderated," "ensuring the mod team don't have an impossible task."

Zig, your post came right after mustard's, so I don't know if you were also addressing me with, "Those who are not respecting this decision and only thinking of how this will affect themselves," but the reason I highlighted the contributions of the forum community, especially longtime posters, as essential to the health and growth of the forum was not to diminish Joe, but because I didn't feel that the posting community's integral contributions to the success of this forum were fully acknowledged in Joe's announcement. I thought it was important to mention; no disrespect intended. Thanks!

"Life is good; life is wonderful, and with friends like these, who needs life?"

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