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This is probably a controversial topic, but~
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Holsety
God Only Knows
262 Posts
(Offline)
1
3 September 2012 - 3.09am

I was listening to an early demo of "I'll Follow The Sun" on YouTube, and I looked in to the comments for the arguments that were happening (because there always is one), and people were saying George was lucky to play with John and Paul. I don't know where people get this stuff from.. I basically said to them that it is understandable not to compare him to the best, but nobody ever really compares him to John, and Paul's guitar work from 65-69 in itself wasn't enough in quantity or versatility to compare very well.. 

 

I'd like to ask how any of you feel about this.. I want to know where people get this from, from the point of view of someone who isn't as biased.

Please don't wake me, no don't shake me, leave me where I am, I'm only sleeping~.

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Inner Light
Friar Park
528 Posts
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2
3 September 2012 - 6.19am

First of all, everyone is going to have their opinion. I have rocked the boat a few times on this site with some of my comments about George being the most talented Beatle. Again, this is my opinion and to me, he is the most talented and innovative of the four but for someone else, John, Paul or Ringo may be the most talented to them and their favorite. I have always stood by with my opinion that George was an excellent song writer and guitarist. I have mentioned this before in some other threads that George had a lot to do with the Lennon songs more then in the McCartney songs. Lennon would usually let him help and give him the freedom to add whatever contribution that he would like to his songs where McCartney had more of an idea and wanted the instruments to follow his direction. 

It doesn't matter what anyone say's or writes. All that matters is who you like and why you like them. George will never be considered an equal to Lennon and McCartney due to the number of hits and songs that they put together in the 60's but I have always felt that Harrison had a lot of talent which came out in the later years and I am very happy that in last few years he has been getting a lot of attention.

The further one travels, the less one knows

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SatanHimself
Hades-on-Leith
666 Posts
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3
3 September 2012 - 12.12pm

Never pay attention to the YouTube comments.  A good 95% of them are just idiotic anyway.

 

I think the easiest rebuttal is that the Beatles were 4 separate and distinct people, and no matter how much more talented any one of them was than any other, the whole will always be greater than the sum of its parts.

E is for 'Ergent'.

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mr. Sun king coming together
Nowhere Land
6429 Posts
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4
3 September 2012 - 12.52pm

If George was lucky to be playing with J&P, when why did J&P keep him in the band? I mean, they had no qualms about firing Pete Best, so why not George? Obviously, because they knew he was good. Damn good.
And yes, YouTube comments are stupid. But hilariously so.

As if it matters how a man falls down.'

'When the fall's all that's left, it matters a great deal.

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meanmistermustard

19089 Posts
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3 September 2012 - 1.55pm

If you want to look at it in a perverse, screwed up manner then John was lucky to play with Paul, Ringo was lucky to join the band and they were lucky to find George Martin. It depends on the holders point of view; remember all the garbage about Ringo not being a good drummer and using one of Johns quotes to back it up ("Ringo was not even the best drummer in The Beatles") (does anyone know the context of that quote?).

 

Also if you read enough comments on a beatles video on youtube you'll read that Paul was little more than a hack who only ever wrote anything decent if John (The Great) helped with 80% of it and whose whole solo career was schmaltzy bubblegum garbage.

 

When it comes down to it dont take any notice of whats written on youtube.

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris) 

"Don't make your love suffer insecurities; Trade the baggage of "self" to set another one free" ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)

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Holsety
God Only Knows
262 Posts
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6
3 September 2012 - 3.14pm

I meant to add something about how I know it's YOUTUBE after all, but I guess I cut it out or something. I'm just glad he gets credit elsewhere. Thanks, everyone.

Please don't wake me, no don't shake me, leave me where I am, I'm only sleeping~.

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Long John Silver
364 Posts
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7
3 September 2012 - 3.59pm

meanmistermustard said
If you want to look at it in a perverse, screwed up manner then John was lucky to play with Paul, Ringo was lucky to join the band and they were lucky to find George Martin. It depends on the holders point of view; remember all the garbage about Ringo not being a good drummer and using one of Johns quotes to back it up ("Ringo was not even the best drummer in The Beatles") (does anyone know the context of that quote?).

 He was joking as Paul played drums on The Ballad Of John And Yoko.

 

As if he was lucky, well they were all lucky to be part of that band. I do prefer John and Paul, but George wrote one (couple that is) of best Beatles songs, he was great guitar player etc... so he was lucky but also proved himself worthy of that place in the group.

Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see.

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meanmistermustard

19089 Posts
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3 September 2012 - 9.52pm

Long John Silver said

meanmistermustard said
If you want to look at it in a perverse, screwed up manner then John was lucky to play with Paul, Ringo was lucky to join the band and they were lucky to find George Martin. It depends on the holders point of view; remember all the garbage about Ringo not being a good drummer and using one of Johns quotes to back it up ("Ringo was not even the best drummer in The Beatles") (does anyone know the context of that quote?).

 He was joking as Paul played drums on The Ballad Of John And Yoko.

I know that John was joking, was more that i always see that quote as 'evidence' for Ringo being not good but have never seen the quote in context.

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris) 

"Don't make your love suffer insecurities; Trade the baggage of "self" to set another one free" ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)

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IMDeWalrus
Terrace BC Canada
97 Posts
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9
4 September 2012 - 1.00am

meanmistermustard said
 

When it comes down to it dont take any notice of whats written on youtube.

Definitely agree -- there are a couple of posters on YouTube (it may be the same guy with two different profiles) who seem to devote all their time going from one video to another trashing Harrison, and claiming how he was basically a bum who didn't know how lucky he was to be sandwiched in between Lennon & McCartney (which is basically what author Philip Norman wrote in his overpraised SHOUT).   I figure they/he must think an awful lot of George to spend so much time and effort.   For myself, I think George's work speaks for itself -- both with the Beatles and after.  

I've got nothing to say, but it's okay..

GOOD MORNING!

GOOD MORNING!!

GOOD MORNING!!!

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Von Bontee
A Hole In The Road
2829 Posts
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10
4 September 2012 - 3.47pm

They were ALL lucky in their own way - see the "What makes the Beatles the greatest?" thread. (Ringo was the luckiest.)

And yeah, LOL Youtube commenters!

One day, a tape-op got a tape on backwards, he went to play it, and it was all "Neeeradno-undowarrroom" and it was "Wow! Sounds Indian!"
-- Paul McCartney

Duke_of_Kirkcaldy
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
180 Posts
(Offline)
11
5 September 2012 - 12.53pm

The main thing that set George back is that, unlike John and Paul, he initially had no ambitions to do anything other than to sing and play guitar for the group.  By the time he finally decided to try his hand at writing his own songs, John and Paul had already progressed so far that he was left in the dust.  He didn't remotely start closing the gap until '68-'70 (his most prolific period).  I only wish John and Paul would have allowed him more than just his usual 'one song per side' -- I'd have loved to have seen some of those All Things Must Pass tracks on a Beatles album.  ahdn_paul_01

Constance
39 Posts
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12
6 September 2012 - 1.43pm

It's been said by some that George "fit in" with John and Paul, as Pete B. did not and Ringo also did, so in the early days, perhaps that was as important as anything else. And George continued to improve on guitar and as a musician/songwriter as the years went by. I can't imagine thinking of him as "lucky", other than perhaps at the start when John grudgingly allowed him into the band, even though he was so young. Once he was in, he was in.

 

By the time Paul played drums on "Ballad of...", John was complaining about everything and everybody, making comments about wanting to ask Clapton to replace George, etc...his behavior was ruled by drugs then, in my opinion, and he was in a phase where he wanted to hurt people.

 

In any case, George's post-Beatles career started off with a bang, better than Paul's or John's (in my opinion, anyway.) He proved his worth almost instantly and made a lot of people wonder why P&J kept him silenced all of those years.

The following people thank Constance for this post:

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MeanMrsMustard
Nowhere Land
2716 Posts
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13
7 September 2012 - 12.53am

mr. Sun king coming together said
And yes, YouTube comments are stupid. But hilariously so.

Mind if I sig that? a-hard-days-night-john-6

If I seem to act unkind, it's only me, it's not my mind that is confusing things.

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mr. Sun king coming together
Nowhere Land
6429 Posts
(Offline)
14
7 September 2012 - 1.03am

Go right ahead. You can drop the Mr. Sun king… stuff as well.

As if it matters how a man falls down.'

'When the fall's all that's left, it matters a great deal.

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MeanMrsMustard
Nowhere Land
2716 Posts
(Offline)
15
7 September 2012 - 1.12am

Heh, I'm keeping the quote. If only I could link to the post in question in my sig, like I can on another forum I frequent.

If I seem to act unkind, it's only me, it's not my mind that is confusing things.

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mr. Sun king coming together
Nowhere Land
6429 Posts
(Offline)
16
7 September 2012 - 2.10am

Drop the whole "Mr. Sun King Coming Together said" thing.

As if it matters how a man falls down.'

'When the fall's all that's left, it matters a great deal.

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The Walrus
Working for the national health
1024 Posts
(Offline)
17
7 September 2012 - 5.14pm

George was lucky to play with two supremely talented songwriters, but equally Paul was lucky he had a friend who was a great guitarist and John and Paul were both lucky to meet each other.

And I neeeeeeeeed her all the time

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Inner Light
Friar Park
528 Posts
(Offline)
18
7 September 2012 - 6.40pm

The Walrus said
George was lucky to play with two supremely talented songwriters, but equally Paul was lucky he had a friend who was a great guitarist and John and Paul were both lucky to meet each other.

Perfectly said...

The further one travels, the less one knows

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frankdialogue
http://www.weebly.com/kultureamerika
53 Posts
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19
14 November 2012 - 5.58pm

George was a great guitarist, but didn't really have a chance to stretch out in the Beatles...He has stated this many times, especially toward the end...For the early Beatles, check out the solos on 'Til There Was You', both 'With the Beatles and BBC...He only had maybe 8/16 bars to say what he had to say...'I Saw Her Standing There' another good one, and remember that the Gretsch Country Gentleman doesn't have the sustain of a Les Paul or even Tele unless you bump it through a Marshall or an amp like that.

 

The famous argument between him & Paul over playing on 'Hey Jude' lends some insight: Ever hear the Wilson Pickett recording of 'Hey Jude' with Duane Allman on lead?...Well, I believe George wanted to do something like this on the song, and you can hear how Allman's guitar adds to the song!

 

'Old Brown Shoe' gives a hint of what Harrison was hearing in the post Clapton/Hendrix school of lead playing...In any case, his playing is excellent as it stands....Plus, he shines on 'Abbey Road', electric and acoustic.

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Inner Light
Friar Park
528 Posts
(Offline)
20
14 November 2012 - 6.16pm

frankdialogue said
George was a great guitarist, but didn't really have a chance to stretch out in the Beatles...He has stated this many times, especially toward the end...For the early Beatles, check out the solos on 'Til There Was You', both 'With the Beatles and BBC...He only had maybe 8/16 bars to say what he had to say...'I Saw Her Standing There' another good one, and remember that the Gretsch Country Gentleman doesn't have the sustain of a Les Paul or even Tele unless you bump it through a Marshall or an amp like that.

 

The famous argument between him & Paul over playing on 'Hey Jude' lends some insight: Ever hear the Wilson Pickett recording of 'Hey Jude' with Duane Allman on lead?...Well, I believe George wanted to do something like this on the song, and you can hear how Allman's guitar adds to the song!

 

'Old Brown Shoe' gives a hint of what Harrison was hearing in the post Clapton/Hendrix school of lead playing...In any case, his playing is excellent as it stands....Plus, he shines on 'Abbey Road', electric and acoustic.

George was an excellent guitarist. I have said this many times on these blogs. He was very underrated do to his lack of flashiness and lack of ripping out fast solos. His strength was playing to the songs and adding just what they needed like adding icing to a cake or a few ingredients to make it sound better. 

George for me was a major force in The Beatles, standing between two huge egos and was kind of a calming factor being the humble one. I love a lot of his older solos from 1962 to 1966 when he played the Gretch Country Gentleman and Tennessean.

The further one travels, the less one knows

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