Please consider registering
Guest

sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —






— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

sp_Feed sp_TopicIcon
Do you think George really wanted to do the anthology documentary?
No permission to create posts
29 June 2015
10.29pm
mr. Sun king coming together
Nowhere Land
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 6411
Member Since:
19 September 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
121sp_Permalink sp_Print

Wigwam said

so calm down 'Sunny'.

We disagree. Clearly. But I do think a dose less of patronizing language and condescending tone would be warranted. I very well may have been a tad forceful last night, and for that I'll apologise. But for fuck's sake, don't ever call me that.

As if it matters how a man falls down.'

'When the fall's all that's left, it matters a great deal.

29 June 2015
10.50pm
Avatar
Pineapple Records
Shea Stadium
Members
Forum Posts: 844
Member Since:
14 May 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
122sp_Permalink sp_Print

Yeah, I made a comment here early on under my former name "Funny Paper" (like years ago!) that talked about detecting some frostiness between George and Paul in that video.  At the time, not being a diligent Beatlemaniac, I didn't know that Paul and George had been such close friends from the beginning even preceding the formation of the Beatles.  So, knowing that, I'd say there may well have been a touch of frost between them -- but that very specific and special kind of frost that close friends sometimes have now and then...

The following people thank Pineapple Records for this post:

penny lane

A ginger sling with a pineapple heart,

a coffee dessert, yes you know it's good news...

30 June 2015
3.31am
Wigwam
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1265
Member Since:
17 October 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

mr. Sun king coming together said

Wigwam said

so calm down 'Sunny'.

We disagree. Clearly. But I do think a dose less of patronizing language and condescending tone would be warranted. I very well may have been a tad forceful last night, and for that I'll apologise. But for fuck's sake, don't ever call me that.

Call you what?

 

Ahh…... I see. You've taken offense at being called 'Sunny' and asked to cool down……….A 'dose less of patronizing language' you say.

I agree..Just what the Dr ordered…..

Simple remedy really…….Be a tad less forceful and foul mouthed and we should get along famously. 

 

PS. Have you voted yet?

30 June 2015
4.18am
Avatar
bewareofchairs
London Palladium
Members
Forum Posts: 165
Member Since:
18 December 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
124sp_Permalink sp_Print

Pineapple Records said
Yeah, I made a comment here early on under my former name "Funny Paper" (like years ago!) that talked about detecting some frostiness between George and Paul in that video.  At the time, not being a diligent Beatlemaniac, I didn't know that Paul and George had been such close friends from the beginning even preceding the formation of the Beatles.  So, knowing that, I'd say there may well have been a touch of frost between them -- but that very specific and special kind of frost that close friends sometimes have now and then...

That's a great way of putting it.

George mentioned in an interview sometime in the mid-seventies that he was pretty upset about being just another person among a ton of other people at the Venus And Mars launch party. I've always felt like deep down he loved Paul a lot but resented the fact that Paul took his friendship for granted and never paid much attention to him until John was no longer around. I suspect he wanted him to go back to being the Paul he knew before he became Beatle Paul and before he was half of Lennon/McCartney. Eventually he accepted that was never going to happen and moved on.

That said, Paul's description of his last day with George and his quote about George telling him he smelt like home are among the sweetest things I've ever heard. Those stories clearly show how much they truly loved each other. 

Wigwam said

 Finally I just want to say something to reassure @bewareofchairs

Over the course of thousands of years of evolution nature has provided us with a way of detecting chairs, especially in the dark…..It's called a shin.

Lol, thank you. That really made me smile.

The following people thank bewareofchairs for this post:

Beatlebug
30 June 2015
4.33am
Wigwam
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1265
Member Since:
17 October 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
125sp_Permalink sp_Print

It's received humour and should be in quotation marks but I'm glad it made you smile…….

17 July 2015
4.12pm
castironshore
London Palladium
Members
Forum Posts: 126
Member Since:
12 May 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
126sp_Permalink sp_Print

I think george probably enjoyed the power he had during the making of 'anthology' having known mccartney had dearly coveted this project since not long after the band broke up. 

When he finally decided to grant his approval he certainly went out his way to prevent the full on beatle paul fest he must have feared. Criticising johns songwriting and the quality of the new tracks, putting his foot down over 'Carnival Of Light ' and of course famously refusing to do a 3rd reunion track which apparently infuriated paul. A cynic might think it was payback for some of paul's behaviour in the latter stages of the bands career.

I have no reason to doubt that they made their peace towards the end of george's life... but its sad to ponder what might have been.

The following people thank castironshore for this post:

Wigwam, trcanberra
17 July 2015
7.54pm
Wigwam
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1265
Member Since:
17 October 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
127sp_Permalink sp_Print

castironshore said
I think george probably enjoyed the power he had during the making of 'anthology' having known mccartney had dearly coveted this project since not long after the band broke up. 

When he finally decided to grant his approval he certainly went out his way to prevent the full on beatle paul fest he must have feared. Criticising johns songwriting and the quality of the new tracks, putting his foot down over 'Carnival Of Light ' and of course famously refusing to do a 3rd reunion track which apparently infuriated paul. A cynic might think it was payback for some of paul's behaviour in the latter stages of the bands career.

That's the feeling exactly........With Jeff by his side he was a force to be reckoned with in the studio too. 

Paul dances on egg-shells all the way through.

17 July 2015
8.13pm
Avatar
C.R.A.
Land of the Rising Sun
Carnegie Hall
Members
Forum Posts: 509
Member Since:
4 February 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
128sp_Permalink sp_Print

bewareofchairs said

I suspect he wanted him to go back to being the Paul he knew before he became Beatle Paul and before he was half of Lennon/McCartney.

Coincidentally, I'm watching Anthology (currently on the final chapters) and have watched the extras.  People can be influenced by the perception of others; I certainly didn't see... or actually should say, recognize... any animosity between George and Paul, the first time I watched it.  This time 'round, I seem to be detecting it.

The largest contributor to any animosity between these two could be precisely because of what you said; he views Paul as Paul; the kid he knew over on Forthlin Road, the kid he went to school with, the one he went hitchhiking with and the one who was his friend, long before McCartney grew into Beatle Paul, a persona McCartney longed for and would never let go of.

Wigwam said

Paul dances on egg-shells all the way through.

While a second viewing is being influenced by others to notice Harrison's ill-ease during some moments, this has been noticeable from the very first time.  You would expect McCartney to be dominant, but he's not.  I think that has a lot to do with his overall "performance" here.  He becomes annoying simply because he's not dominant.  If he had been, you could be irate or have your expectations met.  His waffling becomes annoying, where you start to dismiss his dialog.

 

Whenever the three of them are together, it's clear Harrison is the Alpha.  I found that hugely ironic.

The following people thank C.R.A. for this post:

Wigwam

“Send John out first; he’s the one they want.”

~ someone said it, dammit.

Memphis, 1966

18 July 2015
12.06am
Wigwam
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1265
Member Since:
17 October 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

C.R.A said:

"Whenever the three of them are together, it's clear Harrison is the Alpha.  I found that hugely ironic."

 

 

It's clear Paul's allowing it.........making amends.......A twist for the cameras and posterity...It's almost... 'I'll play what you want me to play George or I won't play if you don't want me too. Whatever it is that will please you I'll do it!"

 

'By the way George I wrote this really subtle song last night .......Its a heavy waltz,' bangs guitar....It's called, 'He, His, Yours' 

The following people thank Wigwam for this post:

trcanberra
20 July 2015
11.22am
castironshore
London Palladium
Members
Forum Posts: 126
Member Since:
12 May 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

The bonus material is perfectly clear in showing harrisons discomfort with certain aspects of mccartney's personality. At every point where paul nearly slips back into "beatle paul" mode harrison pulls the rug from under him. Whether its with a "make it a short one" comment when paul suggests jamming an oldie, or just a withering glance like when paul is reminiscing (rather overbearingly) about elvis presley you can almost read the subtext.......

Basically paul has been forced to keep the bullshit to a minimum when they are together, its fun watching paul's giant ego straining at the leash.

The following people thank castironshore for this post:

trcanberra, Wigwam
20 July 2015
11.30pm
Avatar
Pineapple Records
Shea Stadium
Members
Forum Posts: 844
Member Since:
14 May 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
131sp_Permalink sp_Print

I tentatively second castironshore's impression.  That was what I picked up too.  Especially one moment where the three Amigos are sitting outside in the grass, with one ukulele between them, Paul says he has something to offer, then George rudely redirects to another vibe, sort of like, "No Paul, you're not going to control this moment like you used to when I was low on the Beatles Totem Pole..." -- and Paul gently lets him have his way.  At least, that 's my memory of it...

The following people thank Pineapple Records for this post:

trcanberra, castironshore

A ginger sling with a pineapple heart,

a coffee dessert, yes you know it's good news...

23 April 2018
8.30am
Avatar
SunKing
Casbah Coffee Club
Members
Forum Posts: 18
Member Since:
13 April 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
132sp_Permalink sp_Print

I am new to this forum and not much of a Beatles scholar. I do have to say reading this past thread has been fascinating and people have such probing, thoughtful response that it's humbling.

A few thoughts because this thread really seems to come down to George's relationship to the other Beatles, particularly Paul.  Actually, many George discussions always are about George's role, which is a disservice to him but I believe we all innately understand why.

George's relationship to John seems not great but people take it as a given. I'm not sure if it's because John could be prickly so no one expects him to have gotten along well. No one seems to take John to task for not doing more. Or maybe it's just because their relationship was truncated in 1980 and there's less material to go on. I believe with the ubiquity of media, we'd have tons more John material had he lived - he'd be talking to every blog or probably blogging himself daily.  There would be so much more to excavate and interpret.

I feel like one facet of George's feelings is that while he knew how the Beatles were a one in a billion shot that he was fortunate to be in (all others were exactly as fortunate) there is a time element to this. George was only in his early 20s once. At that time there was no template for rock artists being productive into their 30s and beyond. Maybe he felt that during his most fertile period he was stifled but he also felt that was a time he will never get back.  He had a backlog of songs for ATMP but perhaps he felt that had he been more nurtured he could have been even more productive. Working *within* the Lennon/McCartney school more fully would have been a great exercise.  Age is just a number (and certainly spiritually George knew that it shouldn't be considered a factor in one's outlook) but maybe he felt his creative mind was most elastic at that time and can't shake the fact it won't be coming around again.  John was gone by 1980 so it's pretty hard to maintain that resentment (at least outwardly - he'd sound terrible deriding John) but Paul was still active, generally acknowledged to have some issues of being controlling, and Paul will sort of gladly put up with it.

I always feel I must put a disclaimer that none of this is a comment on the quality of George's solo work, but just trying to unpack any feelings he may have had.

The following people thank SunKing for this post:

Father McKenzie, Beatlebug, Pineapple Records, The Hole Got Fixed, Timothy, SgtPeppersBulldog, ewe2, bewareofchairs, penny lane
23 April 2018
9.59pm
Avatar
Timothy
Nutopia
Royal Command Performance
Members
Forum Posts: 265
Member Since:
14 June 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I think, based on my own intuition, that George knew the Beatles were great, popular and all that stuff, but he was always treading old ground and going back to the past, while he was content to look forward with his life. Just my two cents.

The following people thank Timothy for this post:

SunKing, Beatlebug, SgtPeppersBulldog

1.The Beatles 2.Sgt. Pepper 3.Abbey Road 4.Magical Mystery Tour 5.Rubber Soul 6.Revolver 7.Help! 8.Let It Be
9.A Hard Day’s Night 10.Please Please Me 11.Beatles For Sale 12.With The Beatles 13.Yellow Submarine

24 April 2018
8.59am
Avatar
SunKing
Casbah Coffee Club
Members
Forum Posts: 18
Member Since:
13 April 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
134sp_Permalink sp_Print

It must have been hard too because George often wanted to talk about spiritual matters because it was something he pursued so consistently over his solo years and infused everything he did. However, one can imagine the journalists rolling their eyes when he started talking like that. I'm guessing very few journalists bothered to ask any follow-up questions meant to expound on those ideas and instead just returned the conversation to Beatles inter-personal relations.  It must have been frustrating, even if he understood why people were interested.

The following people thank SunKing for this post:

TheWalrusWasBrian, Beatlebug, SgtPeppersBulldog, Timothy, bewareofchairs
24 April 2018
9.25am
Avatar
TheWalrusWasBrian
Meditating on a roof
Ed Sullivan Show
Members
Forum Posts: 470
Member Since:
17 December 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
135sp_Permalink sp_Print

@SunKing  said
It must have been hard too because George often wanted to talk about spiritual matters because it was something he pursued so consistently over his solo years and infused everything he did. However, one can imagine the journalists rolling their eyes when he started talking like that. I'm guessing very few journalists bothered to ask any follow-up questions meant to expound on those ideas and instead just returned the conversation to Beatles inter-personal relations.  It must have been frustrating, even if he understood why people were interested.  

I totally understand if he felt like that. I'm like George in that I do a lot of research in religion and spirituality, especially Eastern religions such as Buddhism and Hinduism. I love talking about it and discussing it, but sometimes people just don't care. I wish people were more open minded. 

The following people thank TheWalrusWasBrian for this post:

Beatlebug, SgtPeppersBulldog

"Oh, my goodness, this has gone very badly!"

~Siddhartha

25 April 2018
1.13am
Avatar
ewe2
Inside the beat
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 2642
Member Since:
8 January 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
136sp_Permalink sp_Print

Paul: Yay I'm great!

John: Yay I'm great-er than Paul!

Ringo: We're all great!

George: Great, but...

That's where I think George sits in the "panethon". He took it upon himself to be the leveller, and it suited him because spiky sarcasm was his favourite defence when he was insecure (it worked for John too). And we should also factor in George's relative age and the level of trauma he felt with Beatlemania. It almost seems like he felt it was his duty to put in the disclaimers, especially after losing John, to do otherwise would have felt wrong. So I think all that plays out in the Anthology. It didn't mean he hated Beatles (or perhaps it does) or the others, he just felt duty bound to point out these are fallible humans with points of view and there's nothing mysterious about it. And especially as @SunKing points out, he was rarely given time by media to be anything else than a reluctant Beatle George, instead of the man who'd grown-up since then and had his own concerns that he felt just as important as the band of his youth. That meant he was going to be extra spiky just because.

The following people thank ewe2 for this post:

Timothy, Beatlebug, bewareofchairs

I'm like Necko only I'm a bassist ukulele guitar synthesizer kazoo penguin and also everyone. Or is everyone me? Now I'm a confused bassist ukulele guitar synthesizer kazoo penguin everyone who is definitely not @Joe.  This has been true for 2016 & 2017 Sig-Badge.png but I may have to get more specific in the future.

25 April 2018
3.20am
Avatar
Timothy
Nutopia
Royal Command Performance
Members
Forum Posts: 265
Member Since:
14 June 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
137sp_Permalink sp_Print

Really good points, everyone. 

George was almost like an outsider. He was apart of the band and obviously was apart of the storm. But he wasn’t getting the majority of the attention - that was John and Paul, and that was also reflected in the track listing. It’s almost like this role allowed him to be an observer, to see the band from a different perspective. In their shadow but absolutely being a major talent in his own right, which would surely give you a sense of resentment at times.

It’s really interesting to think about. 

The following people thank Timothy for this post:

TheWalrusWasBrian, Beatlebug, bewareofchairs, bewareofchairs

1.The Beatles 2.Sgt. Pepper 3.Abbey Road 4.Magical Mystery Tour 5.Rubber Soul 6.Revolver 7.Help! 8.Let It Be
9.A Hard Day’s Night 10.Please Please Me 11.Beatles For Sale 12.With The Beatles 13.Yellow Submarine

25 April 2018
9.59am
Avatar
Beatlebug
Find me where ye echo lays
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 12250
Member Since:
15 February 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
138sp_Permalink sp_Print

Spot-on ewe2 john-lennon-salute_gif I like Spiky George ahdn_george_06 ...but his interviews were even better when he was allowed to not be Spike Wilbury. a-hard-days-night-george-10

The following people thank Beatlebug for this post:

ewe2

Listen to the music playing in your head
Silly-Girl-2016.png
Silly-Girl-2017.png
New to Forumpool? You can introduce yourself here

23 May 2018
5.16am
Avatar
bewareofchairs
London Palladium
Members
Forum Posts: 165
Member Since:
18 December 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
139sp_Permalink sp_Print

ewe2 said
Paul: Yay I'm great!

John: Yay I'm great-er than Paul!

Ringo: We're all great!

George: Great, but...

That's where I think George sits in the "panethon". He took it upon himself to be the leveller, and it suited him because spiky sarcasm was his favourite defence when he was insecure (it worked for John too). And we should also factor in George's relative age and the level of trauma he felt with Beatlemania. It almost seems like he felt it was his duty to put in the disclaimers, especially after losing John, to do otherwise would have felt wrong. So I think all that plays out in the Anthology. It didn't mean he hated Beatles (or perhaps it does) or the others, he just felt duty bound to point out these are fallible humans with points of view and there's nothing mysterious about it. And especially as @SunKing points out, he was rarely given time by media to be anything else than a reluctant Beatle George, instead of the man who'd grown-up since then and had his own concerns that he felt just as important as the band of his youth. That meant he was going to be extra spiky just because.  

Yes I think that's it exactly. 

The mention by Timothy of him being in an observer position is interesting because George himself described his position in that way in an interview around 1975. It was actually in the LitMW doc, but that bit was edited out (referring to him talking about spending years in the back of a limousine with Lennon/McCartney). The original interview should be floating around tumblr somewhere. 

If I was going to sum George up I'd say he was the Misunderstood Beatle. I think he viewed The Beatles as being two bands. There was the band as he knew it, and then there was the band the public saw. As early as 1964 he talked about how when he saw his picture in the press it was like looking at a different person, and that he tried to see himself as a "Beatle", but he couldn't. I believe he always loved The Beatles, but he became increasingly disturbed by the mythical version of the band that people had in their heads. The jump between being a working-class normal kid from Liverpool to being viewed as a literal God seemed deeply traumatic for him. He saw what it drove people to do whether out of love or hate, and had to come to terms with it at a very young age. You can see his love for The Beatles come through in the other projects he pursued in his life since he was clearly searching for another close knit group to be apart of, but the pressure from what people expected from him and the band took the joy out of it. There's an episode of The Crown which goes into the Queen's friendship with Billy Graham, and at one point she talks about how it was comforting for her to listen to him preach because it was the only time she was able to be a regular person. I wonder if George had a similar feeling from his relationship with spirituality. The idea that he actually wasn't important and none of it mattered in the grand scheme of things was comforting to him which is also why he loved things like Monty Python and The Rutles. 

Here are some telling answers from an interview he did for Men Only in 1978.

Int: What about The Beatles nostalgia craze of the past few years, and the current slew of nostalgia musicals, including I Wanna Hold Your Hand, which occurred during the same day you made your American debut?

Harrison: It’s lots of fun for me to relive the past from a distance. Trying to reunite all four of us with ridiculous sums, though, isn’t fun – it’s scary, as though everyone wants us to be what we once were, which we aren’t anymore. [...]

Int: Which of the ex-Beatles would most like The Beatles to reunite?

Harrison: Personally, I’m not opposed to the idea, if it’s done through mutual agreement. But the pressure seems to be bigger than any of us, and when they talk of sums like $50 or $60 million, it’s almost a farce. I know Paul’s booked for the next few years, and John may have lost interest in the idea. Ringo and I are closest on it; we both feel it’s not impossible, but it’s highly unlikely, if only because of the legal and business maze that would have to be resolved before the four of us set foot on stage together. Things have a way of complicating themselves once stardom strikes. The fun of the early days is how simple things are, how much control the performer has over his or her own destiny. Once that monster fame grabs hold, there’s less and less control and things aren’t done for the fun of it any more. It becomes a greedy corporation with dozens of associates trying to get their slice of the profits, which means they want you work even harder, do things their way, forget you’re a human being in love with music. I’m finally free of all that, and if bringing back The Beatles means returning to that, I’d never agree to it. As for one concert, one huge benefit from which genuinely deserving people would benefit, if that ever becomes possible, I’ll go along with it, as long as there’s a minimum of fuss. But I’m afraid the public would want to hear the old stuff, nothing that we’ve done individually, nor a new sound we’ve developed together. Nostalgia isn’t what it used to be, you know.

Int: So much has been written about your spirituality that at times it would appear you've earned the image of a saint. Does this bother you?

Harrison: It does, because I'm in no way saintly. And I don't think the people in the media who ascribe this image to me are doing it out of good motives. They just want to label me, to give me a readily recognisable tag that will sell them more copies and fit me into whatever slot they wish to peg me into. [...]

Int: You 'suffer' from being so famous?

Harrison: I would if I allowed myself to, if I kept up the pace I did when I was starting out. Everyone has to suffer the gimmicks and other stunts and machinations when they're starting out - only at the time, it doesn't feel like suffering; it's fun and different then. But a little fame goes a long way, and then one tries to cast off part of the heavy burden - a burden one can never totally escape. I don't mean to sound mysterious or try to baffle anyone, but when people come up to me expecting me to be just like what they thought a Beatle would be, they're disappointed. I never was a Beatle, except musically. I don't think any of us was. What is a Beatle anyway? I'm not a Beatle or an ex-Beatle or even the George Harrison . I'm just a man. Very ordinary.

The following people thank bewareofchairs for this post:

Beatlebug, SunKing, Pineapple Records, penny lane
23 May 2018
1.36pm
Avatar
Beatlebug
Find me where ye echo lays
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 12250
Member Since:
15 February 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
140sp_Permalink sp_Print

@bewareofchairs I love it whenever you pop onto the forum... your posts are always of the highest quality. john-lennon-salute_gifpaul-mccartney-thumb_gif

The following people thank Beatlebug for this post:

bewareofchairs

Listen to the music playing in your head
Silly-Girl-2016.png
Silly-Girl-2017.png
New to Forumpool? You can introduce yourself here

No permission to create posts
Forum Timezone: America/Chicago

Most Users Ever Online: 597

Currently Online:
1 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

Starr Shine?: 15266

Beatlebug: 12250

Ron Nasty: 8074

Necko: 7760

parlance: 7109

mr. Sun king coming together: 6411

Mr. Kite: 6148

trcanberra: 6039

AppleScruffJunior: 5426

mithveaen: 4613

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 87

Members: 2471

Moderators: 4

Admins: 2

Forum Stats:

Groups: 3

Forums: 44

Topics: 4554

Posts: 287996

Newest Members:

MichaelG, The Jet, stever, seamyth, haribol

Moderators: Ahhh Girl: 16383, meanmistermustard: 21745, Zig: 9779, Joe: 4977

Administrators: Joe: 4977, Ellie: 4

Members Birthdays
sp_BirthdayIcon
Today: Son of the King of Fuh
Upcoming: Paryam, Midori78, TheWigglyBeatle