Please consider registering
Guest

sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —






— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

sp_Feed sp_TopicIcon
Why is Beatles For Sale so underrated
No permission to create posts
8 March 2018
5.25pm
Avatar
sir walter raleigh
In our yellow (IN OUR YELLOW) submarine (SUBMARINE AHA!)
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 3761
Member Since:
26 January 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I agree with Special Cup. The lead vocal Paul delivers so so powerful, the harmonies bring it down a bit. I still love that take. All of the BFS outtakes are phenomenal. 

"The pump don't work cause the vandals took the handles!"

-Bob Dylan, Subterranean Homesick Blues

"We could ride and surf together while our love would grow"

-Brian Wilson, Surfer Girl

9 March 2018
5.04am
Avatar
Zig
The Toppermost of the Poppermost
Moderator

Moderators

Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 9764
Member Since:
14 April 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

While this album may not be a "go to" for me, I enjoy almost* every song on the album very much when one pops up at random. Overall Beatles For Sale is comparatively subdued, but has a few toe-tappers that even things out. A fine album.

*Sorry, 'Mr Moonlight '. You are not a terrible song, but oh that cheesy organ...a-hard-days-night-paul-3

I'll have to give it another proper listen today - already looking forward to it.

To the fountain of perpetual mirth, let it roll for all its worth. And all the children boogie.

9 March 2018
8.00am
Avatar
Timothy
London Palladium
Members
Forum Posts: 191
Member Since:
14 June 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Zig said
While this album may not be a "go to" for me, I enjoy almost* every song on the album very much when one pops up at random. Overall Beatles For Sale is comparatively subdued, but has a few toe-tappers that even things out. A fine album.

*Sorry, 'Mr Moonlight '. You are not a terrible song, but oh that cheesy organ...a-hard-days-night-paul-3


I'll have to give it another proper listen today - already looking forward to it.  

It’s the album I’ve been listening to quite a lot recently. I usually focus on an album for some time (something I feel is being neglected somewhat) before moving onto another. Beatles For Sale is interesting because it’s still the early days of their career with a number of covers, but it’s also right on the cusp of their evolution into something more. 

The following people thank Timothy for this post:

Zig

1.The Beatles 2.Sgt. Pepper 3.Abbey Road 4.Magical Mystery Tour 5.Rubber Soul 6.Revolver 7.Help! 8.Let It Be
9.A Hard Day’s Night 10.Please Please Me 11.Beatles For Sale 12.With The Beatles 13.Yellow Submarine

10 March 2018
3.43am
Avatar
QuarryMan
Shea Stadium
Members
Forum Posts: 872
Member Since:
26 January 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I disagree that this album is underrated, it's probably their worst IMO. There's a few tracks which are pretty damn great but the rest are either average or just a bit uninteresting 

Half of what I say is meaningless

10 March 2018
4.44am
Avatar
meanmistermustard
Moderator
Members

Reviewers


Moderators
Forum Posts: 21679
Member Since:
1 May 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I think barring tracks 6, 7 & 8 (cd/streaming listing) it's a fabulous album. 

The only thing is 'Honey Don't ' is better with John.

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris) 

"Don't make your love suffer insecurities; Trade the baggage of 'self' to set another one free" ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)

10 March 2018
9.15am
Avatar
Zig
The Toppermost of the Poppermost
Moderator

Moderators

Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 9764
Member Since:
14 April 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Timothy said

It’s the album I’ve been listening to quite a lot recently. I usually focus on an album for some time (something I feel is being neglected somewhat) before moving onto another. Beatles For Sale is interesting because it’s still the early days of their career with a number of covers, but it’s also right on the cusp of their evolution into something more.   

I used to do that a lot when I was a youngster. There was nothing like that new vinyl smell as the album slid out of its sleeve and was placed upon the turntable. Once the needle was dropped, I'd read the cover over and over. Then flip over to side two and read the cover again, or just stare at it. Lather, rinse, repeat.

That's one of the many things I love about the 2009 remasters - the original (or as close as possible) artwork, photos and liner notes. This album has some of the best. Derek Taylor's notes are entertaining, dripping with hyperbole and at times prophetic. This album appeals to most of the senses - I've never tasted it - and offers more than meets the ears. DT's liner notes, for those who have not seen them, are under the spoiler. This is one of those times I wish we had a Derek Taylor smiley - @Joe ??

This is the fourth by the four, Please Please Me , With The Beatles , Hard Day’s Night. That’s three. Now… Beatles For Sale .

The young men themselves aren’t for sale. Money, noisy though it is, doesn’t talk that loud. But you can buy this album – you probably have, unless you’re just browsing, in which case don’t leave any dirty thumbprints on the sleeve!

It isn’t all currency or current though. There’s a priceless history between these covers. None of us is getting any younger. When, in a generation or so, a radio-active, cigar-smoking child, picnicking on Saturn, asks you what the Beatle affair was all about – ‘Did you actually know them?’ – don’t try to explain all about the long hair and the screams! Just play the child a few tracks from this album and he’ll probably understand what it was all about. The kids of AD2000 will draw from the music much the same sense of well-being and warmth as we do today. 

For the magic of the Beatles is, I suspect, timeless and ageless. It has broken all frontiers and barriers. It has cut through differences of race, age and class. It is adored by the world.

This album has some lovely samples of Beatle music. It has, for instance, eight new titles wrought by the incomparable John Lennon and Paul McCartney , and, mingling with the new, there are six numbers culled from the rhythmic wealth of the past extraordinary decade; pieces like Kansas City , and Rock And Roll Music . Marvellous.

Many hours and hard day’s nights of devoted industry went into the production of this album, it isn’t a potboiling quick-sale any-old-thing-will-do-for-Christmas mixture.

At least three of the Lennon-McCartney songs were seriously considered as single releases until John popped with I Feel Fine . These three were Eight Days A Week , No Reply and I’m A Loser. Each would have topped the charts, but as it is they are an adornment to this LP, and a lesson to other artists. As on other albums, the Beatles have tossed in far more value than the market usually demands.

These are few gimmicks or recording tricks, though for effect, the Beatles and their recording manager George Martin, have slipped in some novelties. Like Paul on Hammond organ to introduce drama into Mr. Moonlight, which also, and for the first time, has George Harrison applying a thump to an elderly African drum because Ringo was busy elsewhere in the studio, playing bongos. George’s thump remains on the track. The bongos were later dropped. Ringo plays timpani in Every Little Thing , and on the Rock And Roll Music track George Martin joins John and Paul on one piano. On Words Of Love , Ringo plays a packing case.

Beyond this, it is straightforward 1964 disc-making. Quite the best of its kind in the world. There is little or nothing on the album which cannot be reproduced on stage, which is, as students and critics of pop-music know, not always the case.

Here it is then. The best album yet – quite definitely, says John, Paul, George and Ringo – full of everything which made the four the biggest attraction the world has ever known. Full of raw John and melodic Paul; a number from George, and a bonus from Ringo. For those who like to know who does precisely what, there are details alongside each title.

Derek Taylor

The following people thank Zig for this post:

meanmistermustard, The Hole Got Fixed

To the fountain of perpetual mirth, let it roll for all its worth. And all the children boogie.

10 March 2018
9.32am
Avatar
Timothy
London Palladium
Members
Forum Posts: 191
Member Since:
14 June 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

QuarryMan said
I disagree that this album is underrated, it's probably their worst IMO. There's a few tracks which are pretty damn great but the rest are either average or just a bit uninteresting   

If BFS is their worst then the Beatles were pretty damn good!

The following people thank Timothy for this post:

Zig, QuarryMan, C.R.A.

1.The Beatles 2.Sgt. Pepper 3.Abbey Road 4.Magical Mystery Tour 5.Rubber Soul 6.Revolver 7.Help! 8.Let It Be
9.A Hard Day’s Night 10.Please Please Me 11.Beatles For Sale 12.With The Beatles 13.Yellow Submarine

20 March 2018
2.50am
Avatar
C.R.A.
Land of the Rising Sun
Carnegie Hall
Members
Forum Posts: 509
Member Since:
4 February 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Personally, it's not possible for the Beatles to have a "worst" album.  Maybe "not the best" album or "this one would be last" album, but definitely not the "worst" album.

In fact, it may be physically dangerous to create such a label, as I'm sure it would cause a gravitational wobble in the space-time continuum that would distort the planet's collective notion of reality and hurl us all into a void where the only music comes from The Bay City Rollers.

No, wait... Hell already exists (supposedly).

Never the less, I contend there is no such thing as a "worst" Beatles album and you'll simply have to come up with a more logical description.

So... carry on, then.

The following people thank C.R.A. for this post:

Zig, Ahhh Girl, Beatlebug, Shamrock Womlbs

“Send John out first; he’s the one they want.”

~ someone said it, dammit.

Memphis, 1966

20 March 2018
6.20am
Avatar
Zig
The Toppermost of the Poppermost
Moderator

Moderators

Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 9764
Member Since:
14 April 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hello @C.R.A. ! Nice to see you again. apple01

To the fountain of perpetual mirth, let it roll for all its worth. And all the children boogie.

20 March 2018
6.59pm
Avatar
Father McKenzie
Liverpool England
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1038
Member Since:
14 November 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

QuarryMan said
I disagree that this album is underrated, it's probably their worst IMO. There's a few tracks which are pretty damn great but the rest are either average or just a bit uninteresting   

Worse than Yellow Submarine ? I respectfully disagree. BFS is an under rated gem in my opinion. I listened to it again the other day,and apart from a few fillers (Mr Moonlight , and the God awful Honey Don't ) I think it's an enjoyable listen.

My favourites are Rock N Roll Music,Eight Days A Week , Baby's In Black and Every Little Thing . Oh,and Words Of Love ,which is just brilliant.

 

@Zig: thumbs up for a Derek Taylor smiley mate paul-mccartney-thumb_gif

The following people thank Father McKenzie for this post:

Beatlebug, Zig

Still writing the words to the sermon that no one will hear......

20 March 2018
9.34pm
Avatar
PurplishRain
The Cold Waters of Lake Minnetoka
Royal Command Performance
Members
Forum Posts: 253
Member Since:
25 December 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I agree. Beatles For Sale is so underrated. I'd say that this is my 2nd favorite Early Beatles album (Second only to A Hard Day's Night ). This album kinda showed the precursor of mature songwriting that would appear on albums like Help and Rubber Soul

The following people thank PurplishRain for this post:

Father McKenzie, Beatlebug

"Dearly Beloved, We are gathered here today to get through this thing called life"

22 March 2018
3.34pm
Avatar
QuarryMan
Shea Stadium
Members
Forum Posts: 872
Member Since:
26 January 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Father McKenzie said

Worse than Yellow Submarine ? I respectfully disagree. BFS is an under rated gem in my opinion. I listened to it again the other day,and apart from a few fillers (Mr Moonlight , and the God awful Honey Don't ) I think it's an enjoyable listen.

My favourites are Rock N Roll Music,Eight Days A Week , Baby's In Black and Every Little Thing . Oh,and Words Of Love ,which is just brilliant.

 

@Zig: thumbs up for a Derek Taylor smiley mate paul-mccartney-thumb_gif  

Yellow Submarine ain't a proper album IMO. Don't get me wrong, I really like this album and there are plenty of songs I really like (No Reply , I'm A Loser , Baby's In Black , I'll Follow The Sun , Words Of Love , Eight Days A Week , What You're Doing ) the track listing is really unimpressive as a whole with far more duds than any other of their LPs. To me this album is a rare step backwards in their discography - after the creative explosion that was A Hard Day's Night , it doesn't really advance in any way other than a slight maturing of their lyricism. Then again, even that is limited because of the amount of covers on the thing. 

The following people thank QuarryMan for this post:

Father McKenzie

Half of what I say is meaningless

25 March 2018
2.01pm
Avatar
Little Piggy Dragonguy
Nowhere Land
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 3669
Member Since:
5 November 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

It's probably because when compared to their other albums it's kind of draggy. People mostly like The Beatles for the innocence and joy of their early stuff (mostly older generations), the psychedelic stuff, or their perfectly produced Abbey Road . Beatles For Sale is kind of an awkward phase where they weren't the teeny boppers singing things like "I Want To Hold Your Hand " anymore and weren't yet being as adventurous with their music as they were in their later years. I have never heard a young person say their favorite album was something other than Revolver , Sgt. Pepper 's, The White Album , or Abbey Road . The only times I've heard somebody recall a different album as their favorite, it has been a person who was alive when the albums were released.

The following people thank Little Piggy Dragonguy for this post:

Beatlebug

All living things must abide by the laws of the shape they inhabit 

25 March 2018
3.26pm
Avatar
The Hole Got Fixed
A Dock at Southampton
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 3687
Member Since:
27 November 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Just to derail you slightly, @Little Piggy Dragonguy, but my favourite album is A Hard Day's Night - and I'm not old. 

But there are exceptions to every rule, and an opinion like mine is very uncommon. 

Likewise, some of the older folk may choose a later album - though this is also uncommon. 

Part of why it's neither an early album or a psychedelic album is because of how it was recorded. That, I feel, is the biggest factor of why it's rarely held up as a favourite album. 

The following people thank The Hole Got Fixed for this post:

Beatlebug

Oh, by the way, this post was made by The Hole Got Fixed!

2016 awards: Username-Badge.png 2017 awards: The-Hole-Got-Fixed-2017.png

25 March 2018
3.38pm
Avatar
Beatlebug
Find me where ye echo lays
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 12116
Member Since:
15 February 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

It's rather Dylanish, but without the fire of, say, Rubber Soul . Even Help ! has more energy.

That having been said -- though it's not my #1, I do like Beatles For Sale . heart

Listen to the music playing in your head
Silly-Girl-2016.png
Silly-Girl-2017.png
New to Forumpool? You can introduce yourself here

25 March 2018
4.40pm
Avatar
meanmistermustard
Moderator
Members

Reviewers


Moderators
Forum Posts: 21679
Member Since:
1 May 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Maybe it's more about the context of the album; the four were knackered: the songs were recorded in the most insane period of their career, fitted in whenever a spare few days could be found. On that basis, there was never going to be a lot of energy as they themselves had little, and the titles and mood of many of the originals prove that whilst the covers aren't up there with those on the earlier albums. The nearest you get is 'Rock And Roll Music ' but it's not close to 'Twist And Shout ', 'Roll Over Beethoven ' or 'Long Tall Sally '. 

Whereas 'A Hard Day's Night ' highlights how exciting and mad Beatlemania was, 'Beatles For Sale ', from the title via the cover to the music within, shows the effect Beatlemania had on the four. It's very easy to get blown away by all the footage and caught up to the point where it all looks so much fun, however, this album reminds us of the effect it had on them. That they managed to even put together an album that demonstrates progress, and there is plently on offer, and is a very good album is a testament to them, most bands would have shoved together at the very best a placeholder.

Having said that, I adore the album, always have.  The first five songs are the best opening sequence on any Beatles album for me and I also love the album from 'Words Of Love ' onwards.

The following people thank meanmistermustard for this post:

Beatlebug, Zig

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris) 

"Don't make your love suffer insecurities; Trade the baggage of 'self' to set another one free" ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)

25 March 2018
4.51pm
Joey Self
A Beginning
Members
Forum Posts: 4
Member Since:
25 March 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I think if I'd heard BFS without knowing it followed AHDN , I would have liked it better.  I hear it as a retreat, at least because of the covers.  I am not that crazy about "I'm A Loser " and "Baby's In Black ," and "Mr. Moonlight" should have been the one we first got on ANTHOLOGY, with "Leave My Kitten Alone " in its place.

Also, it is the album that suffers most from the "no singles on albums" policy.  Sure, WITH THE BEATLES would have been improved with "I Want To Hold Your Hand /This Boy ," Rubber Soul could have used "We Can Work It Out /Day Tripper " and REVOLVER could have been even better with "Paperback Writer /Rain " (or at least "Rain "), but those albums had enough other things going for them, the loss of two tracks from the sessions as a single didn't hurt like pulling "I Feel Fine /She's A Woman " from BFS.  Those that remarked that BEATLES '65 was better are probably basing that in large part on the inclusion of the single. 

That's not to say the album is without charm.  I like the trio of originals that appear on side two in consecutive order.  "Rock And Roll Music " is a good cover; someone in this thread opined it might have been a good album opener, and that had not occurred to me.  The record would open with Lennon imploring "Just let me hear some of that Rock And Roll Music ..." 

So, of the 63-65 output, what I consider the "early" phase of their career, I'd put it 4th, ahead of PPM and WTB, but behind AHDN , HELP! and Rubber Soul .  Thus, I guess I'd answer the question "Why is BFS so underrated?" by saying "that assumes a fact not in evidence--I don't know that it IS underrated as much as it is properly assessed." 

 

JcS

The following people thank Joey Self for this post:

Beatlebug, QuarryMan
25 March 2018
5.07pm
Avatar
meanmistermustard
Moderator
Members

Reviewers


Moderators
Forum Posts: 21679
Member Since:
1 May 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

The Beatles always looked to push and promote their originals, there is very little chance they would have opted for 'Rock And Roll Music ' therefore.

Those who look to 'Beatles '65' as being better for including 'I Feel Fine ' and 'She's A Woman ' may have forgotten that Capitol used two horrendous fake mixes that are almost impossible to listen to. The songs are very good but 'Beatles '65' is actually worse for including them due to how they were included.

The following people thank meanmistermustard for this post:

Beatlebug, Father McKenzie, Heath

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris) 

"Don't make your love suffer insecurities; Trade the baggage of 'self' to set another one free" ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)

26 March 2018
10.57am
Avatar
Heath
The Star-Club
Members
Forum Posts: 73
Member Since:
7 May 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

meanmistermustard said

Those who look to 'Beatles '65' as being better for including 'I Feel Fine ' and 'She's A Woman ' may have forgotten that Capitol used two horrendous fake mixes that are almost impossible to listen to.

"I Feel Fine " spent three weeks at #1 in late '64/early '65 in the US, while "She's A Woman " made it to #4.  How we suffered through those weeks is the untold story the Beatles could still cover up in those early days.  You probably never heard about it elsewhere.  People having to turn off their radios every five minutes.  Billboards springing up overnight:

I FEEL FINE?  I'LL FEEL FINE when this piece of garbage is off the air - FOR GOOD!

SHE'S A  WOMAN?  SHE'S A PAWN to "Capitol"ism is what SHE IS!

Luckily for the Beatles, this all occurred prior to the days of hard-hitting journalism, such as found in Datebook magazine.

26 March 2018
11.52am
Avatar
QuarryMan
Shea Stadium
Members
Forum Posts: 872
Member Since:
26 January 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Heath said

meanmistermustard said

Those who look to 'Beatles '65' as being better for including 'I Feel Fine ' and 'She's A Woman ' may have forgotten that Capitol used two horrendous fake mixes that are almost impossible to listen to.

"I Feel Fine " spent three weeks at #1 in late '64/early '65 in the US, while "She's A Woman " made it to #4.  How we suffered through those weeks is the untold story the Beatles could still cover up in those early days.  You probably never heard about it elsewhere.  People having to turn off their radios every five minutes.  Billboards springing up overnight:

I FEEL FINE?  I'LL FEEL FINE when this piece of garbage is off the air - FOR GOOD!

SHE'S A  WOMAN?  SHE'S A PAWN to "Capitol"ism is what SHE IS!

Luckily for the Beatles, this all occurred prior to the days of hard-hitting journalism, such as found in Datebook magazine.  

I think MMM was saying that the mixes were different on the Beatles '65 album specifically

The following people thank QuarryMan for this post:

Beatlebug, Heath

Half of what I say is meaningless

No permission to create posts
Forum Timezone: America/Chicago

Most Users Ever Online: 597

Currently Online: Into the Sky with Diamonds, SunKing
1 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

Starr Shine?: 15235

Beatlebug: 12116

Ron Nasty: 7929

Necko: 7736

parlance: 7104

mr. Sun king coming together: 6411

Mr. Kite: 6147

trcanberra: 6035

AppleScruffJunior: 5362

mithveaen: 4613

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 87

Members: 2442

Moderators: 4

Admins: 2

Forum Stats:

Groups: 3

Forums: 44

Topics: 4545

Posts: 286153

Newest Members:

Sound One, Hannargy

Moderators: Ahhh Girl: 16153, meanmistermustard: 21671, Zig: 9764, Joe: 4968

Administrators: Joe: 4968, Ellie: 4

Members Birthdays
sp_BirthdayIcon
Today: None
Upcoming: Stuart Sutcliffe