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Sir Peter Jackson's Let It Be
20 May 2019
7.59pm
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Billy Rhythm
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It's just silly, in my opinion, to dismiss someone who the surviving members, including George before his death, have always respected, and have never disputed (so far) his take on their history, which often isn't flattering and often doesn't stick to what was thought yo have happened, while they have openly disparaged books by those who were Ron Nasty said

  

I don't "dismiss" his work...  I just don't adopt it as gospel like many of you have...  of course George Harrison didn't step up to the mike and state publicly that, "you know Mark, the Wah-Wah pedal wasn't even invented in 1965 so that's not what I'm playing on 'I Need You '"...  it's painfully obvious that Mark Lewisohn should spend a little more time researching the history of music itself...  gonna have to agree to disagree on what the criteria is for "Expert" status there...:-)

20 May 2019
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Ron Nasty
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But no more silly than Paul stating for many years that John complemented him on Here, There And Everywhere  while in Austria filming Help !, a year before he'd written it, and something he has recently said the complement actually happened during the Revolver  sessions.

As ML tweeted to me when I found a small error in Volume 1, "We all make mistakes."

Peace + Love heart

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The Beatles Non-Canon Poll List

21 May 2019
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Billy Rhythm
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"silly" was your word, not mine...  you have an extensive volume called 'Anthology' where the text is first hand accounts by those who were there...  there's no colourful adverbs/adjectives sprinkled on top of afterwards, it's a literal transcript of The Beatles own words during many different moments of their career...  sure, they get things mixed up at times but the others are there to elaborate further...  although they all shared the same experience together it was an individual one for them as well...  no one person, whether inside or on the outside looking in can possibly sum up the four lives better than those four themselves, they are "The Experts"...  I mean, are you going to favour the work of a bible scholar who's studied second hand information all of their lives over the words of Jesus himself?...  it's why the current edition doesn't mirror the ancient scriptures...

 

I always remember this film I saw back in the 90's of an exercise where about 2 dozen highly educated persons were sitting around one of them long executive style boardroom tables...  the object was to take a simple phrase (wish I could remember what it was but it was no more than 4 or 5 words) and whisper it into the next person's ear and pass it 'round the table...  they didn't even make it to halfway around when the phrase had all ready become altered beyond recognition...  and this is what has happened to The Beatles' legacy over the years...  with each second hand translation the author/historian adds their own personal touch, often with complete disregard to factual accounts...

 

even in the case of 'Carnival Of Light ', where Mark Lewisohn can stake claim to being one of the select few who've heard it outside of the original event...  he declares to those clamouring to hear it themselves that "it's just a circus"...  uh, no Mark, that's 'Being For The Benefit of Mr. Kite'...  while I plead ignorance for not having heard it myself, the details of the recording (many of which were provided by you) suggest that it's something much darker and disturbing than 'Being For The Benefit of Mr. Kite'...  his thorough research is unmatched, but should be presented in a way that one can draw their own conclusions, instead of imposing a "this is what really happened" scenario...  he's built a Marvelous Castle out of a House of Cards, the same thing Sir Peter Jackson is attempting to do now...:-)

21 May 2019
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Billy Rhythm said
"silly" was your word, not mine...  you have an extensive volume called 'Anthology' where the text is first hand accounts by those who were there...  there's no colourful adverbs/adjectives sprinkled on top of afterwards, it's a literal transcript of The Beatles own words during many different moments of their career...  sure, they get things mixed up at times but the others are there to elaborate further...  although they all shared the same experience together it was an individual one for them as well...  no one person, whether inside or on the outside looking in can possibly sum up the four lives better than those four themselves, they are "The Experts"...  I mean, are you going to favour the work of a bible scholar who's studied second hand information all of their lives over the words of Jesus himself?...  it's why the current edition doesn't mirror the ancient scriptures...

 

I always remember this film I saw back in the 90's of an exercise where about 2 dozen highly educated persons were sitting around one of them long executive style boardroom tables...  the object was to take a simple phrase (wish I could remember what it was but it was no more than 4 or 5 words) and whisper it into the next person's ear and pass it 'round the table...  they didn't even make it to halfway around when the phrase had all ready become altered beyond recognition...  and this is what has happened to The Beatles' legacy over the years...  with each second hand translation the author/historian adds their own personal touch, often with complete disregard to factual accounts...

 

even in the case of 'Carnival Of Light ', where Mark Lewisohn can stake claim to being one of the select few who've heard it outside of the original event...  he declares to those clamouring to hear it themselves that "it's just a circus"...  uh, no Mark, that's 'Being For The Benefit of Mr. Kite'...  while I plead ignorance for not having heard it myself, the details of the recording (many of which were provided by you) suggest that it's something much darker and disturbing than 'Being For The Benefit of Mr. Kite'...  his thorough research is unmatched, but should be presented in a way that one can draw their own conclusions, instead of imposing a "this is what really happened" scenario...  he's built a Marvelous Castle out of a House of Cards, the same thing Sir Peter Jackson is attempting to do now...:-)

  

I think he may have referred to Carnival Of Light being like a circus because of all the bells and whistles and not a literal circus which is what Being For The Benefit of Mr. Kite tries to be.

And in the end the lunch you take is equal to the lunch you bake.

9 July 2019
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Ron Nasty
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Speaking on SiriusXM in the past few days, Ringo has commented on the upcoming Jackson version:

I'm looking with Peter Jackson at all the footage that was never used. Prior to us doing that [the rooftop performance], we're all hanging out, and it's a lot of fun, lot of humour, and not like the one that came out.

He criticises the original for hanging itself on Paul and George's disagreement, with a narrative that framed that moment and missed much else with that artistic choice:

When Michael Lindsay-Hogg put his film together, which he's in quite a lot, too, they just stuck to those seconds of an argument. But there was a lot of joy, and I think Peter will show that ... this one, I think, will be more expressive and more like we were.

More here (though not much) a-hard-days-night-george-10!!!

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9 July 2019
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Leppo
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I was just reminded reading that of when i watched the recent Stan and Ollie film which features a major row between the two which in real life never happened but was clearly inserted to help sell the film. We can't dispute the Paul/George row was real but evidently overblown and likely for the same reasons. 

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10 July 2019
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Still, it's hard to ignore that the only reason we're getting a re-release is a version they like. So the real movie is irretrievably lost between editorial agendas. The real problem with the first movie is that it's badly edited, it drags. I'm not so confident that Jackson has a magic touch with editing.

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11 July 2019
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Ron Nasty said
Speaking on SiriusXM in the past few days, Ringo has commented on the upcoming Jackson version:

I'm looking with Peter Jackson at all the footage that was never used. Prior to us doing that [the rooftop performance], we're all hanging out, and it's a lot of fun, lot of humour, and not like the one that came out.

He criticises the original for hanging itself on Paul and George's disagreement, with a narrative that framed that moment and missed much else with that artistic choice:

When Michael Lindsay-Hogg put his film together, which he's in quite a lot, too, they just stuck to those seconds of an argument. But there was a lot of joy, and I think Peter will show that ... this one, I think, will be more expressive and more like we were.

  

So, where were them when the first movie was edited? Didn't they have to agree and say 'Ok, go on. We like what we see' before considering the movie as a finished product? Did Lindsay-Hogg hide those pieces of film, where it was all joy and they all were grining a grin and brotherhood was all around , at the very moment a Beatle set foot in the editing room? mccartney-shrug_01_gif

Isn't it a bit silly to say it was only Hogg's fault that the first movie is/was so ... "not presenting the real joy that they were going through when rehearsing and being filmed"...?  

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11 July 2019
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I hope I’m wrong but It looks like we’re going to get a nicer version of the film where the narrative is best mates having a hard few days but really they love each other and it was great fun. It’s Apple’s biggest marketing point. 

Its all well and good saying the row was overblown but it doesn’t address all four Beatles saying it was an utterly miserable time for all of them (even in 1995) and George quitting (absent from the film and not down to a row between Paul and himself). 

There were great moments during January 1969, fun times left on the cutting room floor, but there was almost a lot of misery. Let’s not get sidetracked by the folk involved now coming out with the party line after saying different for 49 years. 

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11 July 2019
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Shamrock Womlbs said

Ron Nasty said

Speaking on SiriusXM in the past few days, Ringo has commented on the upcoming Jackson version:

I'm looking with Peter Jackson at all the footage that was never used. Prior to us doing that [the rooftop performance], we're all hanging out, and it's a lot of fun, lot of humour, and not like the one that came out.

He criticises the original for hanging itself on Paul and George's disagreement, with a narrative that framed that moment and missed much else with that artistic choice:

When Michael Lindsay-Hogg put his film together, which he's in quite a lot, too, they just stuck to those seconds of an argument. But there was a lot of joy, and I think Peter will show that ... this one, I think, will be more expressive and more like we were.

  

So, where were them when the first movie was edited? Didn't they have to agree and say 'Ok, go on. We like what we see' before considering the movie as a finished product? Did Lindsay-Hogg hide those pieces of film, where it was all joy and they all were grining a grin and brotherhood was all around , at the very moment a Beatle set foot in the editing room? mccartney-shrug_01_gif

Isn't it a bit silly to say it was only Hogg's fault that the first movie is/was so ... "not presenting the real joy that they were going through when rehearsing and being filmed"...?  

  

There was a bum-numbing will-sapping rough edit that last about 2 and a half hours (I think) that the Beatles watched and then called for to be cut down (John gave one reason being the others felt there was too much Yoko).  There are photos of them watching it. By the time the final edit was put together I doubt any of them cared in the slightest. 

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11 July 2019
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Not sure where to put this so it goes here as there was discussion about the argument between Paul and George (unless someone else cares enough to suggest somewhere else). 

Quoted from the ‘Anthology’ book, Paul talks about the reason for the row that was in the film  and then you get George with his side of it all; George’s irritation to Paul’s working method is brilliant to see as it burns off the pages. 

PAUL: If I made a suggestion and it was something that, say, George didn't want to do, it could develop quite quickly into a mini-argument. In fact George walked out of the group. I'm not sure of the exact reason, but I think that they thought I was being too domineering.
It's easy for someone like me, who likes to get stuff done, to come on too strong. I get excited and I get too keen
about something, and talk too fast - 'Oh, we could do that and we'd be there on Monday morning - Twickenham - we'll do it - it's great...' And then it got a bit difficult. I would say, 'It would be great if we could film The Beatles working. It would be fabulous.' And they'd be like, 'Well, are you sure you want to do it that way?' It was getting a very lukewarm reception - and I didn't quite realise how I was.
Looking back at the film now, I can see it could be easily construed as someone coming on a bit too heavy; particularly as I was just a member of the band and not a producer or director. For my part it was just enthusiasm, and I'd sit and talk with the director. But I think it led to a couple of barneys, and in one of them George said, 'Right. I'm not having this!' I think I was probably suggesting what he might play, which is always a tricky one in a band.
On 'Hey Jude ', when we first sat down and I sang 'Hey Jude ...', George went 'nanu nanu' on his guitar. I continued, 'Don't make it bad...' and he replied 'nanu nanu'. He was answering every line - and I said, 'Whoa! Wait a minute now. I don't think we want that. Maybe you'd come in with answering lines later. For now I think I should start it simply first.' He was going, 'Oh yeah, OK, fine, fine.' But it was getting a bit like that. He wasn't into what I was saying.
In a group it's democratic and he didn't have to listen to me, so I think he got pissed off with me coming on with ideas all the time. I think to his mind it was probably me trying to dominate. It wasn't what I was trying to do - but that was how it seemed.
This, for me, was eventually what was going to break The Beatles up. I started to feel it wasn't a good idea
to have ideas, whereas in the past I'd always done that in total innocence, even though I was maybe riding roughshod.
I did want to insist that there shouldn't be an answering guitar phrase in 'Hey Jude ' - and that was important to me - but of course if you tell a guitarist that, and he's not as keen on the idea as you are, it looks as if you're knocking him out of the picture. I think George felt that: it was like, 'Since when are you going to tell me what to play? I' in The Beatles too.' So I can see his point of view.
But it burned me, and I then couldn't come up with ideas freely, so I started to have to think twice about anything I'd say - 'Wait a minute, is this going to be seen to be pushy?' - whereas in the past it had just been a case of, 'Well, the hell, this would be a good idea. Let's do this song called "Yesterday ". It'll be all right.'

 

GEORGE: Personally I'd found that for the last couple of albums – probably since we stopped touring – the freedom to be able to play as a musician was being curtailed, mainly by Paul. There used to be situation where we'd go in (as we did when we were kids), pick up our guitars, all learn the tune and chords and start talking about arrangements.
But there came a time, possibly around the time of Sgt Pepper (which was maybe why I didn't enjoy that so much), where Paul had fixed an idea in his brain as to how to record one of his songs. He wasn't open to anybody else's suggestions. John was always much more open when it came to how to record one of his songs.
With Paul, it was taken to the most ridiculous situations, where I’d open my guitar case and go to get my guitar out and he'd say, 'No, no we're not doing that yet. We're gonna do a piano track with Ringo, and then we'll do that later.' It got so there was very little to do, other than sit round and hear him going, 'Fixing A Hole ...' with Ringo keeping the time. Then he'd overdub the bass and whatever else.
It became stifling, so that although this new album was supposed to break away from that type of recording (we were going back to playing live) it was still very much that kind of situation where he already had in his mind what he
wanted. Paul wanted nobody to play on his songs until he decided how it should go. For me it was like: 'What am I doing here? This is painful!'
Then superimposed on top of that was Yoko, and there were negative vibes at that time. John and Yoko were out on a limb. I don’t think he wanted much to be hanging out with us, and I think Yoko was pushing him out of the band, inasmuch as she didn't want him hanging out with us.
IT'S IMPORTANT TO STATE THAT A LOT OF WATER HAS GONE UNDER THE BRIDGE AND THAT, AS WE TALK NOW, EVERYBODY'S GOOD FRIENDS AND WE HAVE A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF THE PAST. BUT TALKING ABOUT WHAT WAS HAPPENING AT THAT TIME, YOU CAN SEE IT WAS STRANGE.

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