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The Lives of John Lennon
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17 May 2010
6.01pm
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Alissa
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PeterWeatherby said:

Oh, right, and PS to Alissa: "I'm in to the Beatles like a typewriter is into paper" may just be my new favorite phrase (mostly because you said "typewriter", and for God's sakes, who even knows what a typewriter is these days, except for us old souls who somehow managed to find The Beatles even though we missed their original life-cycle). ūüôā


Hah, well thank you! -bows- a-hard-days-night-john-6

I came up with it on the spot... seemed to suffice in terms of professing the level of my love.
And I adore us old souls- we're rarities, aren't we. 
a-hard-days-night-george-7 

Tongue, lose thy light. Moon, take thy flight… see ya, George!

17 May 2010
8.42pm
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mithveaen
Sitarday's room
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PeterWeatherby said:


 

I've said it before, but I'll pimp it again: I really liked Philip Norman's John Lennon: The Life.  I'm also currently reading Lennon Revealed by Larry Kane.  I've heard that Kane is pretty solid, reputable source (he knew John personally from 1964-ish onward), and the advantage of his book (as opposed to Norman's) is that it's shorter and more condensed.  Norman's book is quite good, but I realize that the 700+ pages might seem a bit daunting for a lot of readers, who might look at this gigantic slab of bound paper and think, "It's All Too Much."


 

Ok, thanks. I'll check it out. I don't want to sound too snobish a-hard-days-night-george-5 but +700 pages isn't much. I'm used to books that big a-hard-days-night-john-3

 

So I'm adding this in my Amazon summer shopping list. thank you!!

Here comes the sun….. Scoobie-doobie……

Something in the way she moves…..attracts me like a cauliflower…

Bop. Bop, cat bop. Go, Johnny, Go.

Beware of Darkness… 

17 May 2010
11.42pm
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Von Bontee
A Hole In The Road
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In addition to "Lives" (which I received as an Xmas gift/certainly wouldn't have bought it for myself!), I also read Goldman's similar hatchet-job on Elvis, and the books are very similar: Start with an introductory chapter depicting a "typical day" set very late in the subject's life, pile on the sordid details, invent precise back-and-forth dialogue which nobody could've possibly witnessed, etc. And don't forget the bizarre, nasty homosexual and anti-Semitic allegations, etc...

One day, a tape-op got a tape on backwards, he went to play it, and it was all "Neeeradno-undowarrroom" and it was "Wow! Sounds Indian!"
-- Paul McCartney

18 May 2010
2.52am
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skye
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So he really did follow a formula. a-hard-days-night-ringo-12 It's a bit disappointing. But why bust your butt reinventing the wheel?

Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo! So little time! So much to know!

19 May 2010
11.27pm
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skye
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Question: I got to the part were John and Pete apparently beat up a sailor, failed to grab the money they were trying to steal, and leaves him for dead.  Goldman cites Jesse Ed Davis as his source for the story. This Newsweek article from 1988 says it was never documented.  That would be enough for me, but I rememered this from Anthology:

JOHN: We chose to roll a British sailor. I thought I could chat him up
in English, kid him on we could get him some birds. We got him drinking
and drinking and he kept on asking, 'Where's the girls?' We kept
chatting him up, trying to find out where he kept his money. We never
made it. We just hit him twice in the end, then gave up. We didn't want
to hurt him.67

As you can see, it's dated 1967. Is this the same event?  When did he have his heart to heart with Jesse Ed Davis?

Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo! So little time! So much to know!

20 May 2010
10.12am
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Joe
Pepperland
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If it's from 67 it might have come from Hunter Davies' book (published in 68, but much of the material was gathered the year before). I haven't got my copy with me right now but I'll try and remember to look when I get home.

The Newsweek article is very interesting. Thanks for sharing.

Please don't spoil my day; I'm miles away

Can buy me love! Please consider using these links to support the Beatles Bible: Amazon | iTunes

20 May 2010
12.01pm
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skye
AZ
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No problem. Let me know what you find, if anything. The bodies are starting to pile up!

Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo! So little time! So much to know!

21 May 2010
8.30am
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Joe
Pepperland
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The quote is from Davies, but there's not much more information given. Here's the introductory paragraph which puts the quote in context:

"The audiences [in Hamburg] were entranced by them, devoted to them, and the Beatles became less scared of the club, the waiters and the fights. They saw the waiters taking money out of the pockets of drunks and as they were hard up, John decided one night to try it himself.

'We chose a British sailor to roll...'"

I think the idea that they "left him for dead" would be slightly fanciful, so I guess Goldman was referring to another (made up?) incident.

Please don't spoil my day; I'm miles away

Can buy me love! Please consider using these links to support the Beatles Bible: Amazon | iTunes

21 May 2010
5.16pm
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skye
AZ
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Probably. If there was any truth to it, you would think someone would have come forward by now. Even if it was just a journal entry saying, "Some punks jumped me last night as I was coming out of this dive bar. Idiots didn't even grab my wallet". Or however a British sailor would phrase that.

I feel like a mythbuster (sans explosions) while reading this. Now I'm off in investigate the random beating of Stu and pissing on nuns on Easter.

Also, Rolling Stone is probably biased, but the article on this book is pretty convincing.

Edit: I knew there's was something on the nuns. From Anthology-

JOHN: There's big exaggerated stories about us in Hamburg, about us
pissing on nuns and things like that, but there was a lot of things that
went on. What actually happened with that was - we had a balcony in
these flats - one Sunday morning we were just pissing in the street as
all the people were going to church, and there were some nuns over the
road going into the church. It was just a Sunday morning in the club
district, with everyone walking about and three or four people peeing in
the street.72

 

Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo! So little time! So much to know!

21 May 2010
8.49pm
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Celebrated_Mr_K
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Stu's fiance', Astrid, said the alleged beating of Stu by John never happened.  Nor would it make sense...Stu was John's best friend.  The likely cause of Stu's eventual cerebral hemmorhage was the beating he took back in Liverpool from a couple of drunken Teddy Boys.  John actually came to Stu's rescue in that fight. 

21 May 2010
8.52pm
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PeterWeatherby
A Park in the Dark
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Celebrated_Mr_K said:

Stu's fiance', Astrid, said the alleged beating of Stu by John never happened.  Nor would it make sense...Stu was John's best friend.  The likely cause of Stu's eventual cerebral hemmorhage was the beating he took back in Liverpool from a couple of drunken Teddy Boys.  John actually came to Stu's rescue in that fight. 


I'm not sure.  Larry Kane mentions the incident in his book too (Lennon Revealed), and I think his stuff is a bit more reputable than Goldman.

Not a bit like Cagney.

21 May 2010
9.06pm
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skye
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I've read it too, I think it came up in one of Stu's letters to or from his sister, but I can't remember where I saw it. What doesn't make sense is how Goldman presented it. The two them are walking down the street, John goes berserk and starts beating on Stu. Why? It's just something John did, according to Goldman. I want to know:

    Did it happen?
    If yes, then was it unprovoked? An arguement?

Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo! So little time! So much to know!

22 May 2010
3.36pm
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McLerristarr
A Place
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I heard that John and Stu may have been having a "relationship" and John beat him out of jealousy or something. John Lennon was a complicated man although I'm not sure he would do something like that, and if he did, I would have thought there would be a hidden message in a song.

22 May 2010
11.49pm
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Alissa
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McLerristarr said:

I heard that John and Stu may have been having a "relationship" and John beat him out of jealousy or something. John Lennon was a complicated man although I'm not sure he would do something like that, and if he did, I would have thought there would be a hidden message in a song.


I don't think John would be concerned of "hidden messages" at all. He was always one to say exactly what he was thinking, "How Do You Sleep" being exhibit A.

a-hard-days-night-john-7

Tongue, lose thy light. Moon, take thy flight… see ya, George!

23 May 2010
12.27am
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skye
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Wouldn't Norwegian Wood and You've Got To Hide Your Love Away be counter examples?

Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo! So little time! So much to know!

23 May 2010
1.43am
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Alissa
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skye said:

Wouldn't Norwegian Wood and You've Got To Hide Your Love Away be counter examples?


Perhaps, but I don't know if I would consider them hidden messages. Maybe just a metaphorical song and one with an allusion. a-hard-days-night-john-6

Tongue, lose thy light. Moon, take thy flight… see ya, George!

24 May 2010
12.16am
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McLerristarr
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Alissa said:

skye said:

Wouldn't Norwegian Wood and You've Got To Hide Your Love Away be counter examples?


Perhaps, but I don't know if I would consider them hidden messages. Maybe just a metaphorical song and one with an allusion. a-hard-days-night-john-6

 

 

That's what I meant. I didn't mean secret messages like the Paul is dead crap, I don't think anyone could be bothered to do that.

I don't believe the allusions in those songs anyway. They're just songs for the sake of writing good songs.

28 May 2010
5.10pm
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skye
AZ
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I've just read a brief biography of Yoko before she met John, and I've come to the conclusion that I don't really know a damn thing about the woman. With the outrageous sections on John, I have other sources to fall back on. Goldman's trick seems to be to take well know stories (which are bad enough on their own) that involve only people who are dead or are unwilling to talk, and embellish it. 

Can anyone tell me how extreme Goldman's portrayal is of Yoko?

Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo! So little time! So much to know!

28 May 2010
8.27pm
Marcelo
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Come on, let's face it: John was a f**king murderer. First a sailor, later Stu.blue-meanie

 

What a jackass, that Goldman…

I'd like to say "thank you" on behalf of the group and ourselves and I hope we passed the audition.
John Lennon

28 May 2010
8.41pm
Marcelo
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PeterWeatherby said:

I'm still a big fan of Norman's book, even though I know he gets accused of being a little too pro-John at times.  I'm re-reading through it again (haven't read it since 2008), and have been posting snippets of it at my blog; I'll let you know when I get to the post-Beatles section.  I know Norman covers the "primal scream therapy" years, but I don't remember if he covers that entire period from 1970-1980.  Still - a decent book, I thought, which brings out some of the "hidden" tender side of John, but also doesn't sugar coat the bitterness that was undeniably there.


 

I don't agree with those accusations. My impression about Norman's bio: Some parts really makes me feel that John was very talented in being an asshole and/or an idiot, skills that flourished in the last years of The Beatles and the first of his solo carreer. That's a very depressing part of the book.

I'd like to say "thank you" on behalf of the group and ourselves and I hope we passed the audition.
John Lennon

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