Please consider registering
Guest
sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_Feed sp_TopicIcon
John: Cynthia Lennon
22 April 2015
10.38am
Avatar
LittleBeatlemaniac
Royal Command Performance
Members
Forum Posts: 206
Member Since:
7 September 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I just finished the book and thought it was pretty interesting to read from Cynthia’s perspective. I feel even worse for Julian, he had such a rough childhood. 

"Time you enjoy wasting, was not wasted.” - John Lennon.

1 June 2019
5.05am
Avatar
paulmccsassy
England
The Cavern Club
Members
Forum Posts: 80
Member Since:
22 May 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

May be a bit late to the thread but wanted to add to it anyway! I really enjoyed this read I felt it was like a harsh reality and Cynthia didn’t whitewash over things like she could have about her years with John. It gives us so much personal insight into her relationship with John especially the distance she felt between them during those later years and her descriptions of how it felt to be with someone who was there but not ‘really there’ seem so accurate and heart wrenching. I feel it helped us see not only what John was like in his romantic relationships but also his character as a father and friend. What stuck with me the most and was probably the most saddening was the last sentence of the book in which she wrote:

“But the truth is if I’d have known as a teenager what falling for John Lennon would lead to, I would have turned round right then and walked away.”

The following people thank paulmccsassy for this post:

forn

"Who's that little old man?

1 June 2019
5.25am
Avatar
Ron Nasty
Apple rooftop
Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 11806
Member Since:
17 December 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I’ve always thought that an incredibly cruel line because, at its most basic, it’s saying she’d be willing to not have had Julian.

The following people thank Ron Nasty for this post:

Beatlebug, forn

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

To @ Ron Nasty it's @ mja6758
The Beatles Bible 2020 non-Canon Poll Part One: 1958-1963 and Part Two: 1964-August 1966

1 June 2019
6.09am
Avatar
paulmccsassy
England
The Cavern Club
Members
Forum Posts: 80
Member Since:
22 May 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

That’s the difficult thing, because she says she could never regret having Julian yet of course we know there is no Julian without John.

The following people thank paulmccsassy for this post:

Beatlebug

"Who's that little old man?

2 June 2019
5.45am
Avatar
QuarryMan
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 3730
Member Since:
26 January 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I suppose she would most likely have had a child with someone else.. but it wouldn’t have been Julian. 

“While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I’m a naysayer and hatchet man in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I’ll gladly take another - because I choose to live my life in the company of Ghandi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression and retaliation. The foundation of such a method is love. I love you, Sheriff Truman.”

 

2 June 2019
7.26pm
Avatar
Timothy
Nutopia
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1728
Member Since:
14 June 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

LittleBeatlemaniac said
I just finished the book and thought it was pretty interesting to read from Cynthia’s perspective. I feel even worse for Julian, he had such a rough childhood. 

  

Julian’s childhood is what makes him more authentically like John than Sean. John really had bastard aspects of his personality, especially as a younger guy, and through his attitude towards Sean he basically repeated how he himself was raised. I am not an untrustworthy liar, but I have sociopathic aspects to my personality. I think, like John, it’s about holding onto a sense of individuality and having a sense of control. These things are very hard to shake, nigh impossible. It’s either in your DNA or it’s not. 

The following people thank Timothy for this post:

Beatlebug

1.The Beatles 2.Sgt. Pepper 3.Abbey Road 4.Magical Mystery Tour 5.Rubber Soul 6.Revolver 7.Help! 8.Let It Be
9.A Hard Day’s Night 10.Please Please Me 11.Beatles For Sale 12.With The Beatles 13.Yellow Submarine

Most Avid John Fan 2020 and 2021: john.png john.png

3 June 2019
12.57pm
Avatar
Beatlebug
Find me where ye echo lays
Moderator

Moderators
Forum Posts: 17711
Member Since:
15 February 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

^I thought that (broadly speaking) sociopathy was environmental while psychopathy was genetic?

It verges from the sublime to the ridiculote
New to Forumpool? You can introduce yourself here.
ScotsIrishFlag-1.jpeg avatar_creative_signature_Hmm.png Vietnam Heritage and Freedom Flag
StarSpangledBanner.png

3 June 2019
1.08pm
Avatar
Ron Nasty
Apple rooftop
Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 11806
Member Since:
17 December 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

No, it’s to do with the severity of the illness, @Beatlebug. Psychopathy is a more severe form of sociopathy. All psychopaths are also sociopaths, but not all sociopaths are psychopaths.

The following people thank Ron Nasty for this post:

Beatlebug, Timothy

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

To @ Ron Nasty it's @ mja6758
The Beatles Bible 2020 non-Canon Poll Part One: 1958-1963 and Part Two: 1964-August 1966

3 June 2019
8.21pm
Tangerine
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1276
Member Since:
29 April 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Well technically both are outdated terms for what is now called anti-social personality disorder.

8 June 2019
3.05pm
Avatar
Little Piggy Dragonguy
Nowhere Land
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4055
Member Since:
5 November 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I read this book a few years ago, and I remember being really disturbed by it. It made me lose a lot of respect for both John and Yoko. Julian was a strong kid to allow his father back into his life after being neglected for so long. A lot of people wouldn’t have given him that chance. 

All living things must abide by the laws of the shape they inhabit 

8 June 2019
3.25pm
Avatar
Ron Nasty
Apple rooftop
Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 11806
Member Since:
17 December 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Julian was no more neglected by the parent who didn’t have custody and lived abroad than any child in that situation. While Julian says he rarely saw his father in the last years of his life, there are photographs that contradict that, and also quotes from Julian that contradict his more damning appraisals of John as a father. It all needs balancing.

The following people thank Ron Nasty for this post:

Expert Textpert

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

To @ Ron Nasty it's @ mja6758
The Beatles Bible 2020 non-Canon Poll Part One: 1958-1963 and Part Two: 1964-August 1966

8 June 2019
3.59pm
Avatar
Little Piggy Dragonguy
Nowhere Land
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4055
Member Since:
5 November 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Whether or not Julian saw John a couple more times than he claims doesn’t make much of a difference. John was the one who made the decision to move to New York and abandon his child. His absence did not start with his and Cyn’s separation, either. Julian was born while The Beatles were on tour, and when John finally got a break from touring, he decided that going on a two week vacation was more important than spending time with his wife and newborn child. He started this pattern in the very beginning of Julian’s life. 

All living things must abide by the laws of the shape they inhabit 

8 June 2019
4.20pm
Avatar
Ron Nasty
Apple rooftop
Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 11806
Member Since:
17 December 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Given the choice that not going to New York would have meant that Yoko had no chance of getting Kyoko back, since Anthony Cox was hiding her in a US-based cult. Many children of broken relationships only see their parents during school breaks, and Julian was no different. Lots of those who were there have said Cynthia made it difficult for John to see as much of Julian as he might have wanted. Sadly kids often become the battleground in parental break-ups, and Julian and Kyoko were victims of this. Life is what happens when you’re busy making other plans.

The following people thank Ron Nasty for this post:

Timothy, Beatlebug, Expert Textpert

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

To @ Ron Nasty it's @ mja6758
The Beatles Bible 2020 non-Canon Poll Part One: 1958-1963 and Part Two: 1964-August 1966

13 June 2019
8.52pm
Avatar
Expert Textpert
In bed.
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4938
Member Since:
18 April 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I’m glad I haven’t read this book.

"If you're ever in the shit, grab my tit.” —Paul McCartney 

14 June 2019
3.31pm
Avatar
Capri
The Indra
Members
Forum Posts: 36
Member Since:
18 March 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I finished the book 2 months ago. It was really good, but depressing. 

I found it unpersonal though, whenever she mentioned happenings in The Beatles timeline that she didn’t witness. I guess it was to not confuse the new fans about what happended when.

Even though I got more respect for Cynthia for what she went through and got to understand better why a lot of people hate Yoko, I wouldn’t had wished that John had stayed with Cynthia because they would had fallen apart no matter what (gosh, how I wish some fans on the internet would stop romanticizing their relationship based on photos) and in the end it was better for both of them to leave eachother.

The following people thank Capri for this post:

Beatlebug, Tangerine
21 June 2019
4.47am
Avatar
Shamrock Womlbs
Waiting for the van to come
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 3498
Member Since:
24 March 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Expert Textpert said
I’m glad I haven’t read this book.

  

To each his own. I’m glad i did it. a-hard-days-night-john-1

The following people thank Shamrock Womlbs for this post:

The Hole Got Fixed, Timothy, Rube

"I Need You by George Harrison"

2 July 2019
6.19am
Avatar
Timothy
Nutopia
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1728
Member Since:
14 June 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Shamrock Womlbs said

Expert Textpert said

I’m glad I haven’t read this book.

  

To each his own. I’m glad i did it. a-hard-days-night-john-1

  

Yep, it’s essential reading IMO to get the full, real picture of the man. No matter what people say about John’s past dark ways, he’d still carve up today’s pathetic pop stars. His sharp wit is just the best. 

The following people thank Timothy for this post:

The Hole Got Fixed, Beatlebug, Capri, Rube

1.The Beatles 2.Sgt. Pepper 3.Abbey Road 4.Magical Mystery Tour 5.Rubber Soul 6.Revolver 7.Help! 8.Let It Be
9.A Hard Day’s Night 10.Please Please Me 11.Beatles For Sale 12.With The Beatles 13.Yellow Submarine

Most Avid John Fan 2020 and 2021: john.png john.png

1 October 2021
3.22pm
Toxic34
West Palm Beach, FL
London Palladium
Members
Forum Posts: 117
Member Since:
24 August 2021
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

The problem with the book is not that Cynthia lies, she certainly does not, except for the moment where she insists that John was “pleased as punch” to get the MBE and would have wanted to be knighted. That’s a real stretcher right there. The insistence that “Yoko took credit for Julian saying the ‘tennis court’ conversation with Sean” is also likely a misunderstanding if not an outright invention. It could just as easily have been Yoko who said that.

Other than those moments, everything Cynthia says is true, but she often puts things out of context. She paints everything in the harshest light possible and it is a very transparent ploy for sympathy from the crowd. This is not to say she was undeserving, on the contrary. John admitted he treated Cynthia and Julian horribly, and was doing his best to make things up to them by the time he was gunned down. So dealing with John at his worst cannot have been remotely pleasant, and anyone who was on the receiving end deserves love and understanding to be shown to them.

But there’s a difference between telling one’s truth to reach understanding, and flogging the same stories and leaning on them as a crutch, going “take pity on me, and I want your money.” Cynthia never truly moved on, and just wallowed in the past, because it sold. Yoko tried to work in good faith to be civil with Cynthia, but Cynthia rejected it out of hand and immediately cast it as insincere, which meant that Yoko stopped trying; and yet Cynthia bitched about the fact Yoko didn’t try harder. What do you actually want, Cyn?

The worst part is that Cynthia’s recalcitrance infected Julian and made him just as bitter. All his constantly going on in interviews to slag John comes from her. Whereas in the ’80s and so forth, Julian was much more relaxed and saying how John was making the effort to connect with him because of how well he was raising Sean. Time hardened Cyn, and it hardened Julian, so it became nothing more than repeating sob stories all the time for clickbait-hungry vultures and alogrithms.

While not as malevolent or acting in bad faith as so many of this type of figures playing the victim card and refusing to move on and/or refusing to admit responsibility for their own actions, the book and the way Julian speaks now is still emblematic of what Don Henley attacked in The Eagles’ comeback single “Get Over It.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?…..iDCZyYrJ5M

The following people thank Toxic34 for this post:

Rube
1 October 2021
5.49pm
Avatar
Ron Nasty
Apple rooftop
Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 11806
Member Since:
17 December 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I find the problem with this book is that it has a strong element of bitterness that was absent from her previous book, 1978’s A Twist of Lennon. In 1978, with John alive, she knew she could be sued by him for libel and defamation had she made statements that were disputed which she could not support with evidence – with their being evidence that she did remove statements from that book she was unable to substantiate. With this second book, facing no fear of John suing because the dead can’t sue, she felt able to make accusations and offer opinions she would not have done when she could have faced legal repercussions.

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

To @ Ron Nasty it's @ mja6758
The Beatles Bible 2020 non-Canon Poll Part One: 1958-1963 and Part Two: 1964-August 1966

Forum Timezone: America/Chicago
Most Users Ever Online: 700
Currently Online:
Guest(s) 1
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
Starr Shine?: 16100
Ron Nasty: 11806
Zig: 9832
50yearslate: 8743
Necko: 7962
AppleScruffJunior: 7525
parlance: 7111
mr. Sun king coming together: 6403
Mr. Kite: 6147
trcanberra: 6064
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 88
Members: 2727
Moderators: 5
Admins: 1
Forum Stats:
Groups: 3
Forums: 44
Topics: 5087
Posts: 363631
Newest Members:
meaigs, sagedaddy, polsmith07, Fred_number9, Franz75
Moderators: Joe: 5268, meanmistermustard: 24268, Ahhh Girl: 20398, Beatlebug: 17711, The Hole Got Fixed: 8365
Administrators: Joe: 5268