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John: Cynthia Lennon
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22 January 2013
1.59pm
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DrBeatle
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I finished this a few weeks ago...I enjoyed it, and it adds more to the knowledge base when it comes to John and the Beatles. And the last paragraph says it all, when Cynthia says when asked if, knowing what she knows know and how her life would turn out, if she'd have still gotten with John when he asked her back in 1958, and she says something to the effect of no, and she'd "just keep walking by." (the only caveat she says if she wouldn't trade Julian for anything in the world, and I know what she means by that...if she could go back and still have Julian as her son but not ever be with John, she would).

"I know you, you know me; one thing I can tell you is you got to be free!"

 

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22 January 2013
2.10pm
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parlance
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DrBeatle said
I finished this a few weeks ago...I enjoyed it, and it adds more to the knowledge base when it comes to John and the Beatles. And the last paragraph says it all, when Cynthia says when asked if, knowing what she knows know and how her life would turn out, if she'd have still gotten with John when he asked her back in 1958, and she says something to the effect of no, and she'd "just keep walking by." (the only caveat she says if she wouldn't trade Julian for anything in the world, and I know what she means by that...if she could go back and still have Julian as her son but not ever be with John, she would).

It's the saddest story. You get the feeling that, with the exception of Julian, John ruined her life.

parlance

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22 January 2013
2.57pm
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DrBeatle
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He kind of did...I mean, he did truly love her for many years but he was never overly warm or affectionate, certainly not in a sustained way, rather for shortened manic bursts, and he was an abysmal father to Julian...he knew it and admitted as much many times, even in his letters, but he never did anything to change it. As a father of 4 kids, this cut me deep because I feel awful when I even just snap at my kids when they're being naughty, and John is on record as having said some really cruel things to Julian (making fun of his laugh and saying "don't ever fuckin' laugh like that in front of me again!" almost made me tear up :-( ). And then she and Julian were tossed aside like yesterday's paper when he got with Yoko. He did try to atone for that when he had Sean, but I can understand Cynthia's hurt and bitterness.  That being said, there were so many instances in the book where she relates a story and I was screaming "YOU SHOULD HAVE STOOD UP FOR YOURSELF AND SAID SOMETHING!" And she never really got over John, which is understandable, but she was damaged goods after the divorce and she's on marriage #4 now (and I hope it lasts, for her sake and happiness).

A very sad, yet intriguing, life for all 3 (John, Cyn, Julian) of them.

"I know you, you know me; one thing I can tell you is you got to be free!"

 

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25 January 2013
7.44pm
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fabfouremily
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DrBeatle said
He kind of did...I mean, he did truly love her for many years but he was never overly warm or affectionate, certainly not in a sustained way, rather for shortened manic bursts, and he was an abysmal father to Julian...he knew it and admitted as much many times, even in his letters, but he never did anything to change it. As a father of 4 kids, this cut me deep because I feel awful when I even just snap at my kids when they're being naughty, and John is on record as having said some really cruel things to Julian (making fun of his laugh and saying "don't ever fuckin' laugh like that in front of me again!" almost made me tear up :-( ). And then she and Julian were tossed aside like yesterday's paper when he got with Yoko. He did try to atone for that when he had Sean, but I can understand Cynthia's hurt and bitterness.  That being said, there were so many instances in the book where she relates a story and I was screaming "YOU SHOULD HAVE STOOD UP FOR YOURSELF AND SAID SOMETHING!" And she never really got over John, which is understandable, but she was damaged goods after the divorce and she's on marriage #4 now (and I hope it lasts, for her sake and happiness).

A very sad, yet intriguing, life for all 3 (John, Cyn, Julian) of them.

 

Me too! I just don´t think that she was like that though, which I suppose is a shame. John could´ve done with being stood up to sometimes, imo. Told when he was out of line (to put it nicely).

I think Cyn´s happy now, living in Mallorca (or Tenerife, I can´t remember), to a husband who she believes to be her soulmate (tho, really, she´s thought that quite a few times - bless her). I´m glad at that, she´s had a harder life than anyone could have ever imagined, especially her.

Moving along in our God given ways, safety is sat by the fire/Sanctuary from these feverish smiles, left with a mark on the door.

(Passover - I. Curtis)

25 January 2013
8.49pm
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DrBeatle
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Well said.

And to your point, you're right, who knows how it may have been different if she'd stood up to him? Maybe he would have respected her more and been more interested. It's not uncommon for many men to get bored and resentful of women who let them walk all over them, when you'd actually think this is what they'd want. That wasn't in Cynthia's nature, which is good because she tried to please, but bad because even though she was strong inside (and she had to be to endure what she did), it made life very hard for her and Julian and allowed John to do as he pleased.

"I know you, you know me; one thing I can tell you is you got to be free!"

 

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25 January 2013
9.37pm
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meanmistermustard
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Im not convinced their relationship would have survived for very long after Beatlemania began to really take off if Cyn hadnt become pregnant, especially with John going away for a long time and sleeping with so many women. I know it worked for the others (tho Paul wasnt faithful in the slightest to Jane) but to my mind John would have been more content with the single life being in and around London like Paul was. He disliked being stuck out in Weybridge with the bankers and the like, finding it incredibly boring.

Its a difficult situation to comment on because it must be incredibly difficult being in that type of relationship especially with a child. Im just happy Cynth seems to have found happiness and isnt a bitter lonely old woman living in a shack.

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris) 

"Don't make your love suffer insecurities; Trade the baggage of "self" to set another one free" ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)

26 January 2013
10.46am
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fabfouremily
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No me neither. In fact, I don´t think it would´ve lasted that long. John loved her but I don´t think it was ever meant to be forever. Like you say tho, it´s hard to comment on somebody else´s relationship.

Moving along in our God given ways, safety is sat by the fire/Sanctuary from these feverish smiles, left with a mark on the door.

(Passover - I. Curtis)

26 January 2013
9.57pm
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Ron Nasty
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I'm not even so sure it would have lasted through 1962. It's surely interesting that, other than John who'd already married because of the unplanned pregnancy, Ringo was only one to take a romance that started in Liverpool to London and eventual marriage. Paul and George both saw that they were entering a world of new possibilities, and I think the chances are John would have done the same. The marriage was certainly never so important to him as to cause him to remain any more faithful to her than he had been before their exchange of vows.

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

26 January 2013
10.20pm
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Linde
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Maureen was pregnant too when she was proposed to.

26 January 2013
10.24pm
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Ron Nasty
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She was pregnant, but she had survived their move from Liverpool to London. Paul and George's attentions moved quickly from Liverpool girlfriends once they made it to London. Ringo stuck with Maureen through the height of Beatlemania.

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

26 January 2013
11.33pm
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DrBeatle
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mja6758 said
She was pregnant, but she had survived their move from Liverpool to London. Paul and George's attentions moved quickly from Liverpool girlfriends once they made it to London. Ringo stuck with Maureen through the height of Beatlemania.

Hell, Ringo stuck with her through George shagging her multiple times after the band broke-up!

"I know you, you know me; one thing I can tell you is you got to be free!"

 

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26 January 2013
11.45pm
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LongHairedLady
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DrBeatle said

 

Hell, Ringo stuck with her through George shagging her multiple times after the band broke-up!

a-hard-days-night-ringo-6

"Please don't bring your banjo back, I know where it's been..  I wasn't hardly gone a day, when it became the scene..  Banjos!  Banjos!  All the time, I can't forget that tune..  and if I ever see another banjo, I'm going out and buy a big balloon!"

 

26 January 2013
11.56pm
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Ron Nasty
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LongHairedLady said

DrBeatle said

 

Hell, Ringo stuck with her through George shagging her multiple times after the band broke-up!

a-hard-days-night-ringo-6

But George was at least polite enough to offer a swap with Patti! Strange the way some people choose to live their lives. Doesn't take away from the original point I was trying to make, back on topic, that I believe John would have been like Paul and George and left his Liverpool girlfriend behind with the move to London had he already not had married her just because on the unplanned pregnancy.

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

27 January 2013
12.02am
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LongHairedLady
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Lots of people in that generation (my parents-baby boomers) got married when the pregnancy came along.  My parents got married when my mom was pregnant with my (older) sister.  

 

I'm sure everyone knows this, but Linda was also pregnant when she married Paul.  Three months I believe.

"Please don't bring your banjo back, I know where it's been..  I wasn't hardly gone a day, when it became the scene..  Banjos!  Banjos!  All the time, I can't forget that tune..  and if I ever see another banjo, I'm going out and buy a big balloon!"

 

27 January 2013
12.09am
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Ron Nasty
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Paul I think would have married Linda, pregnant or not. Someone who made all The Beatles troubles seem less difficult to face, and who was prepared to dedicate herself to him. Ringo I think would have got around to marrying Maureen, just because he's Ringo. John I don't think would ever have married Cynthia were it not for the pregnancy.

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

27 January 2013
12.11am
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LongHairedLady
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mja6758 said
Paul I think would have married Linda, pregnant or not. Someone who made all The Beatles troubles seem less difficult to face, and who was prepared to dedicate herself to him. Ringo I think would have got around to marrying Maureen, just because he's Ringo. John I don't think would ever have married Cynthia were it not for the pregnancy.

Touche. a-hard-days-night-george-10

"Please don't bring your banjo back, I know where it's been..  I wasn't hardly gone a day, when it became the scene..  Banjos!  Banjos!  All the time, I can't forget that tune..  and if I ever see another banjo, I'm going out and buy a big balloon!"

 

27 January 2013
12.38am
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DrBeatle
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mja6758 said
Paul I think would have married Linda, pregnant or not. Someone who made all The Beatles troubles seem less difficult to face, and who was prepared to dedicate herself to him. Ringo I think would have got around to marrying Maureen, just because he's Ringo. John I don't think would ever have married Cynthia were it not for the pregnancy.

Perfectly said, and accurate. 

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27 January 2013
1.11am
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meanmistermustard
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Paul would have married Linda in a heartbeat. Right from their first meeting he went all gooey thinking about her tho it took a while for them to get together for one reason or another. Considering he nearly went with every girl in town and in the nearby village when with Jane, that all stopped with Linda. No doubt he had grown up and matured (still only 26 tho) but it does say a lot about how he felt towards her, and Heather of course - very quickly they bonded and Paul took to the role of Father. Plus Linda wouldnt have taken any crap, i think she was a little more hesitant because of past relationships and the effect a man coming into the scene would have had on Heather.

 

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris) 

"Don't make your love suffer insecurities; Trade the baggage of "self" to set another one free" ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)

27 January 2013
9.27am
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Ron Nasty
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LongHairedLady said
Lots of people in that generation (my parents-baby boomers) got married when the pregnancy came along.  My parents got married when my mom was pregnant with my (older) sister.  

Should also have said I come from a similar marriage. My parents were forbidden to marry by their parents, 1962, so came up with a planned "unplanned" pregnancy (my older sister) to get around the objections. Not that it lasted.

 

meanmistermustard said
Paul would have married Linda in a heartbeat. Right from their first meeting he went all gooey thinking about her tho it took a while for them to get together for one reason or another. Considering he nearly went with every girl in town and in the nearby village when with Jane, that all stopped with Linda. No doubt he had grown up and matured (still only 26 tho) but it does say a lot about how he felt towards her, and Heather of course - very quickly they bonded and Paul took to the role of Father. Plus Linda wouldnt have taken any crap, i think she was a little more hesitant because of past relationships and the effect a man coming into the scene would have had on Heather.

 

But, on topic, what about John and Cynthia?

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

27 January 2013
11.56am
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Funny Paper
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Paul's relationship with Linda was the only relationship that really seemed to have been true love -- not only compared with the other Beatles, but I can't think of any other celebrity, musicians or actors, who quite had what Paul and Linda had. 

 

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