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Things We Learned Today...
28 November 2019
3.15am
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The Hole Got Fixed
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I would struggle to think of a criticism of a non-christian holiday, wigwam, purely because they aren't celebrated enough where I am for me to know the pros and cons.

Oh, by the way, this post was made by The Hole Got Fixed!

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28 November 2019
7.48am
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Dark Overlord
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I see where you're coming from but i have to agree with Wigwam and Beatlebug, although i think a better idea would be to get rid of officially recognized holidays and instead just give employees an extra 2 weeks of vacation time. That way, they can celebrate whatever they want, whenever they want.

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28 November 2019
8.11am
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Ron Nasty
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No, they couldn't, @Dark Overlord. An employee can turn down a holiday request if too many other employees have opted for that day/week/whatever. Official holidays allow for communal celebrations by telling employers that they should shut for the day, and that if they want to remain open they can't force employees to work and should pay a bonus to someone who agrees to work on those days.

Recognised communal holidays allow employers to shut down for day knowing that, in most industries, their competitors have also shut down for the day. Were you to abolish nationally recognised holiday days, it would mean, for instance, many people wanting Christmas Day off would be turned down because too many staff have asked for Christmas Day off.

National holidays give the incentive to a business to shut down for the day rather than decide which of their staff they will/won't allow to take a holiday day to mark that celebration.

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28 November 2019
8.21am
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Ahhh Girl
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Ahhh Mom (retired Registered Nurse) had to work on holidays sometimes. Hospitals don't close. She got other days off as her "holiday."

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28 November 2019
8.36am
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Dark Overlord
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Good point, i didn't think of that. We could try mandating that employers can't deny someone a vacation day which would be another incentive for employers to close on the holidays.

Alternatively, we could replace Columbus Day with Religion Day where people of all religions (including atheism and agnosticism) celebrate their religious beliefs with giant festivals. This way, we replace a depressing holiday glorifying colonialism and western imperialism with a more positive holiday where people of all religions celebrate their religion. And since now all religions have an officially recognized holiday, we can still keep Christmas (which TBH isn't really too Christian anyways since people of most religions (including Satanism) willingly celebrate it).

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28 November 2019
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Wigwam said
Not getting at anyone here.....(in particular).....I was stating a general gripe.....Criticising Christmas began with the bloody Puritans...The Pilgrim Fathers too.....Surprised it's survived it's own 'congregation's' attempts to scupper it...But it has...... 

No one is attacking Christmas here, other than to voice a criticism of the unfairness of the prominence of a traditional  Christmas holiday.... (in  predominantly Christian countries) when there are so many other non Christian religious festivals....... it's a fair point...... but......I'd wager no one here would dare voice a criticism of any kind... of a celebration of a non Christian tradition....

I'm not someone to encourage One-eyed-wokeness.......... Not my cup of tea.

  

1. What do you mean by criticism?

2. Why are you challanging is to criticize holidays? What are you trying to prove?

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28 November 2019
11.41am
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50yearslate
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Dark Overlord said
Good point, i didn't think of that. We could try mandating that employers can't deny someone a vacation day which would be another incentive for employers to close on the holidays.

Alternatively, we could replace Columbus Day with Religion Day where people of all religions (including atheism and agnosticism) celebrate their religious beliefs with giant festivals. This way, we replace a depressing holiday glorifying colonialism and western imperialism with a more positive holiday where people of all religions celebrate their religion. And since now all religions have an officially recognized holiday, we can still keep Christmas (which TBH isn't really too Christian anyways since people of most religions (including Satanism) willingly celebrate it).

  

Agree- Columbus Day is a ridiculous holiday. Columbus doesn’t deserve to be celebrated. (Sorry for the double post.)

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28 November 2019
11.58am
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Von Bontee
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50yearslate said 

(P.P.S. Totally unrelated and not especially important but has anyone noticed the disappointing lack of Hanukkah songs? All these Christmas songs and all there is for Hanukkah is the dreidel song... I wonder why that is)

  

Here ya go, fiddy! (I posted this on the "Turn it up or down" thread awhile back...check the thread out sometime!)

(I assumed you were Jewish; I think you mentioned travelling to attend a seder earlier in the year)

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28 November 2019
12.02pm
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50yearslate
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Von Bontee said

50yearslate said 

(P.P.S. Totally unrelated and not especially important but has anyone noticed the disappointing lack of Hanukkah songs? All these Christmas songs and all there is for Hanukkah is the dreidel song... I wonder why that is)

  

Here ya go, fiddy! (I posted this on the "Turn it up or down" thread awhile back...check the thread out sometime!)

a-hard-days-night-george-9 Thank you 

(I assumed you were Jewish; I think you mentioned travelling to attend a seder earlier in the year)

  

Indeed I did. As for whether I’m Jewish, it’s hard to tell, because Judaism is matrilineal and so *technically* I’m not? And I never had a bat mitzvah or anything, I’m not religious, but we still do the holidays and stuff and a lot of my family are practicing Jews. I guess I’m sort of a nominal Jew? Not sure.

Oh, and I forgot all about the Hanukkah song a-hard-days-night-george-9 

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28 November 2019
7.21pm
Wigwam
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50yearslate said

Wigwam said

Not getting at anyone here.....(in particular).....I was stating a general gripe.....Criticising Christmas began with the bloody Puritans...The Pilgrim Fathers too.....Surprised it's survived it's own 'congregation's' attempts to scupper it...But it has...... 

No one is attacking Christmas here, other than to voice a criticism of the unfairness of the prominence of a traditional  Christmas holiday.... (in  predominantly Christian countries) when there are so many other non Christian religious festivals....... it's a fair point...... but......I'd wager no one here would dare voice a criticism of any kind... of a celebration of a non Christian tradition....

I'm not someone to encourage One-eyed-wokeness.......... Not my cup of tea.

  

1. What do you mean by criticism?

2. Why are you challanging is to criticize holidays? What are you trying to prove?

  

1.I'm sure you understand the word 'criticism' and what it means 'to criticise' .........So no more needs to be said.

 

2. If I understand your last point??

I'm not in any way making a 'criticism' of holidays or challenging their validity....The more holidays the merrier.

I'm not attempting to 'prove' anything either.

I suppose, if it isn't obvious to you from my post......My 'gripe'...(not argument, not trying to prove anything).....is that Christmas seems to come in for attack in a way that people wouldn't dare to voice of the festivals of other religions.....

For example: 'It's often heard that Christmas has become overly commercial'......I can agree with that. I think we can all see that's true. However, I believe it's easy to miss the point that underneath all the superficial and cynical commercialism there is still at it's heart a 'love'......Love of family that draws families closer together....and a love for our fellow man....Generosity and charitable acts abound around Christmas. 

Something else I've noticed.......I'm not a religious man but last time I was in the UK I found it very difficult in major card outlets to find a card with a nativity scene to send to someone I knew would appreciate that type of card....

The religious aspect of Christmas, out of sensitivity in most cases, and PC coercion in a few is downplayed or avoided all together in UK schools with large numbers of non-Christians......That's fair I suppose but I feel sorry for the kids missing out........(I made great paper chains but crap angels).

There was a call to phrase out 'Merry Christmas' and replace it with 'Season's Greetings'....Again this would be more sensitive....A silly example some would say

I'm all for sensitivity if it's a two way street.......Live and let live.......I say.

It's just feeling but I don't see that as being the case from all other religions where tolerance and acceptance of criticism is concerned......It's only 'open season'  for Christianity ......... 

28 November 2019
7.27pm
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1. There is a reason I asked, you know. Do you mean criticism as in “this holiday is terrible” or criticism as in “this one small aspect of this holiday could use improvement?” Because they’re very different things.

2. Sorry, I think I misunderstood what you were trying to say. To check: you’re disappointed that the religious part of Christmas is being overlooked? There’s nothing wrong with that, and I’m sorry if I misunderstood.

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28 November 2019
7.42pm
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Don't worry '50'.......'Alf the time I 'haven't a clue what I'm on about myself!!

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2 December 2019
6.33pm
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QuarryMan
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Genuine question: do people really want everyone to stop saying Merry Christmas? I'm one of the most 'woke' (in the way that @Wigwam_1 doesn't like, at leasta-hard-days-night-george-10a-hard-days-night-john-6) people I know, and I've never seen anyone actually advocating for that, only this weird annual movement for people to claim they'll say Merry Christmas anyway, in spite of the (apparently) overwhelming backlash mccartney-shrug_01_gif

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2 December 2019
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I’m confused, what do you mean? What do they want to say instead?

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3 December 2019
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At my work (social care), the spoken rule from the head people is that you cannot have Christmas or New Year as annual leave, you alternate having one-off and working the other (generally half-shifts tho I and another worker do full shifts thru our choice). If people were allowed it as holidays those with families would want it off and how do you provide care whilst not favouring one worker over the other? It's the same for many others who work in care.

I say spoken rule as it is possible as I found out when I asked last year and got it off as I was happy working New Year and had worked the previous Christmas, it just doesn't go down as annual leave so as not to cause issues (so you can technically argue both sides of the issue) I ask each year as I can then book up being elsewhere; this year I am off New Year and have a hotel booked. 

 

Going beyond Christmas, there are also a number of Christians who still believe that working on a Sunday/Sabbath is contrary to their faith and it then comes down to how their work views it and the rules in place; most employers would expect them to work it nowadays. 

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3 December 2019
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50yearslate said
I’m confused, what do you mean? What do they want to say instead?

Apparently there is some atheist 'war on Christmas' with a campaign to replace it with 'happy holidays' or 'season's greetings'. 

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3 December 2019
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The first 17 Kidz Bop albums contained an adult on lead vocals with children on backing vocals, making for some god awful covers.

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4 December 2019
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QuarryMan said

50yearslate said

I’m confused, what do you mean? What do they want to say instead?

Apparently there is some atheist 'war on Christmas' with a campaign to replace it with 'happy holidays' or 'season's greetings'. 

  

Is there? Most people seem not to care as long as it's not rammed down their throats. It's generally those who don't want people to be offended are the ones who pretend they are offended as someone has to be and if those who should be aren't then those who aren't are (in voice and action only).

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4 December 2019
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I mean? If you want to wish someone a merry Christmas I don’t see anything wrong with that? 

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4 December 2019
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meanmistermustard said

QuarryMan said

50yearslate said

I’m confused, what do you mean? What do they want to say instead?

Apparently there is some atheist 'war on Christmas' with a campaign to replace it with 'happy holidays' or 'season's greetings'. 

  

Is there? Most people seem not to care as long as it's not rammed down their throats. It's generally those who don't want people to be offended are the ones who pretend they are offended as someone has to be and if those who should be aren't then those who aren't are (in voice and action only).

  

I think QM's point was that some people try to attack the 'woke' people for 'trying to change our language, them damn PC users' but in actual fact the 'woke' people aren't trying to wage war on Christmas - most aren't really taking any part in it. The few that are generally supporting other religions, and instead of saying 'Merry Christmas and Happy Hannukah', they are suggestion 'Happy Holidays', as it's shorter and more inclusive

idk @meanmistermustard it confuses me too....

Oh, by the way, this post was made by The Hole Got Fixed!

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