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The "Incredibly Impossible to Derail This Thread" thread
9 January 2023
4.58am
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Ron Nasty
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One thing to remember, @Neely, is that Aunt Mimi, who brought John up, famously told him during his teenage years, “A guitar’s alright (for a hobby), John, but you’ll never make a living out of it.”

He didn’t do too bad.

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The Beatles Bible 2020 non-Canon Poll Part One: 1958-1963 and Part Two: 1964-August 1966

9 January 2023
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Neely
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@Ron Nasty 

That’s John though… I haven’t even written my own song yet. I really need to get on that but damn it’s hard. I have no ideas at all. I think the reason I struggle to is because I haven’t lived enough life to write a song about said life. 

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9 January 2023
5.28am
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Ron Nasty
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John didn’t start writing songs until he was 16/17 in 1957, @Neely, and then only because he met Paul. Sometimes you need to wait until you find your people, friends that will support and help make sense of who you’re wanting to be, and they help you find your path. What’s ahead is often scary, but with belief (and I don’t mean religious, though nothing wrong with that if you are), as you move forward you’ll find the people who will help you find and help you be who you want to be.

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The Beatles Bible 2020 non-Canon Poll Part One: 1958-1963 and Part Two: 1964-August 1966

9 January 2023
5.35am
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Neely
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  @Ron Nasty

You’re just smart lol. Also finally, people don’t assume I’m religious. Living in the bible belt while atheist is interesting. Thanks for the advice 🙂

9 January 2023
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Ron Nasty said
John didn’t start writing songs until he was 16/17 in 1957, @Neely, and then only because he met Paul. Sometimes you need to wait until you find your people, friends that will support and help make sense of who you’re wanting to be, and they help you find your path. What’s ahead is often scary, but with belief (and I don’t mean religious, though nothing wrong with that if you are), as you move forward you’ll find the people who will help you find and help you be who you want to be.

  

Finding someone to jam with that you also click with musically, that would be the best thing for any budding hopeful musician.

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Now today I find, you have changed your mind

9 January 2023
2.04pm
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Neely
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I just moved here, and I still don’t have any friends. i need to get on that.

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9 January 2023
7.28pm
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Sea Belt
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Back when I was in high school, I had big ambitions to get into music, but in the end I didn’t do much about it. I did try to find peers I could jam with Now And Then — I even put an ad out in the newspaper (we’re talking 1974) and some guy hooked me up with some other guys that I didn’t even know, and I ended up not really jamming with them but just kind of sitting around watching them do that song For the Love of Money by The O’Jays. I was impressed at how professional they sounded and just like the record, until it was revealed that they were actually playing along with the record which was on a stereo in the next room, and I couldn’t tell which was which. I tried playing along by hitting the ride cymbal at key junctures that I thought were right, but they said no don’t do that LOL.
 
Another time a classmate who was a guitarist (his dad in fact owned a locally well known music store) invited me over to his house and we were going to jam but we never got around to it. One problem for me was that at that time my instrument was piano and Oregon [this is how my phone voice-to-text spells out “organ”] at the time. Somehow I had gotten, or my mother had gotten for me, a Lowry organ, which could almost sound like a Hammond B3 if you turned it on and off again over and over while you play chords. But the problem was moving it around to different jam sessions.
 
Anyway, then there was a class that I took in high school, easily the coolest class of all taught by Patrick Doyle it was basically a piano class where each student was given his own Fender Rhodes electric piano (that must have cost the school a pretty penny). He would have an exercise every week where all the students played a kind of three chord blues comp and then he would point at different students and ask them, or command them, to do a jazz solo while the rest of the class was playing the chords. So one day I played my solo which must have impressed this guy named Ribi (he was a Latino and half Arab), and after class he said hey I got a band you want to jam with us? So we ended up taking my organ to his house and he had a friend on conga drums, another guy on bass, another guy on drums, not sure if there was a guitar, and we did Latin Rock stuff. However personality problems began to crop up and it fizzled out.
 
Anyway I’m just blathering on cuz I got nothing else better to do and I’m recovering from a back injury. But what I would say is that high school would be a perfect context to try to find someone who is simpatico musically to jam with. Surely, out of a population of 1500 students (I’d say the average for a high school) there should be at least one person who might fit the bill, even with a prevailing anti-Beatles climate.

Now today I find, you have changed your mind

9 January 2023
8.38pm
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Sea Belt
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The continuing saga of bungalow bill

I put music on hold until my later college years (I went to college for two ba degrees, the first one took me 5 years and I took a year off, then the second one took me one year). During that year off I began becoming enamored with becoming a folk musician and taught myself acoustic guitar. I had a romantic notion of hitchhiking around and “riding the rails” and dropping in on cafes and other open mic situations. And I did do that to a great extent but at the end of the day, it kind of fizzled out. I recall becoming obsessed with not making even one mistake on stage with my fingerpicking on my acoustic guitar. When I got to a venue, I would be sure to get there early and backstage (which sometimes would be just the kitchen or some stoop out back of the establishment) and I would play my songs over and over and over again, each time I made one mistake I would redo it all over again. This went on for I’d say about 3 years, so it was great practice for my guitar work. Of course I never did any picking with a plectrum, it was all finger-picking, so I still cannot really play electric guitar for beans

Now today I find, you have changed your mind

10 January 2023
1.42am
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Neely
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@Sea Belt 

I’m awful at finger picking. I got the intro to stairway and gave up fingerpicking. I stick to standard guitar picks.

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10 January 2023
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@Neely 

Here’s an interesting video showing James Taylor’s fingers from a cam looking out from inside his guitar

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Now today I find, you have changed your mind

12 January 2023
1.22am
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Neely said
@Ron Nasty 

That’s John though… I haven’t even written my own song yet. I really need to get on that but damn it’s hard. I have no ideas at all. I think the reason I struggle to is because I haven’t lived enough life to write a song about said life.   

Honey, I didn’t write a song until I was like 18… and it was crap. a-hard-days-night-john-6a-hard-days-night-paul-10a-hard-days-night-paul-7 I didn’t start writing songs I was actually okay with until I was 20 or so. I’m not a professional musician either, but I see myself in you in how I felt like I was behind and probably destined to never be a songwriter of any merit because I’m not Paul McCartney writing my first song at like 15. It’s really not a competition though.

You are right that you need to live more before you can get more song ideas. You can also take inspiration from other songs or literature or poetry – maybe try setting a poem to music, just to get a feel for the process. And be okay with the fact that your first attempts are probably gonna suck – there’s only one way to gain experience. a-hard-days-night-paul-7

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12 January 2023
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Well I don’t mean to throw cold water on budding songwriters, but I kind of have the philosophy Kurt Vonnegut had about fiction writing. For a while after he became famous he taught a class in writing, and he told his students that he can’t teach them anything, because if it’s in you it’s going to come out of you, or you have to figure out a way to draw it out of you. But it’s either there or it’s not. In my experience of songwriting, it begins with a flash of inspiration, usually in the form some lick I’m doing on the guitar or some chord changes that catch my ear and make me think I could possibly build upon them. Sometimes this never pans out, and sometimes it does. The process of building upon it may also involve additional flashes of inspiration, but not necessarily. It’s more like a process of trying to flesh out that initial inspiration and make sure you don’t get in its way or detract from it while you’re making it larger and more complex.

It’s kind of like that experience or idea that I think Michelangelo described where when he’s making a sculpture he’s got just a big hunk of granite and as he’s chipping away he’s not so much imposing the form on the granite, he’s letting the form in the granite come out and he’s just chipping away what’s not it. So if you do have an inspired song, the initial seed of inspiration has the potential to grow into some structure that is also inspired, but you have to make sure you let it unfold on its own terms instead of forcing anything on it. Again, in activities of inspiration there’s no formula or instructions on how to do this. You just feel it along the way, and it either feels right or you end up realizing that you’ve been trying to hammer some kind of form into this thing you have and it’s just a misshapen mess at the end (I’ve got a drawer full of songs like that!)

As for needing to live life before you do art, I’m not so sure that’s always necessary. There’s the famous example of the poet Emily Dickinson, who wrote some of the finest poetry about love, and yet she lived the life of a spinster and never married or apparently never had even a lover.

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24 January 2023
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Off for a snow day today so I’ve had time to Beatles a little bit more.

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Sacher Torte in one of her pink coats just hanging out with her BFF – Rags.

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5 February 2023
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In another thread, The Baker’s Dozen, where the theme now is Beatles songs that mention things related to “cold”, I thought of a Chicago song (Song of the Evergreens), where aside from the main lyrics of the first three minutes which contain 11 illusions to snow & winter, the final two minutes have the singers singing the word “snow” over and over again, with a total of 107 times!
 

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5 February 2023
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ahdn_paul_06 Thanks SB, I never heard that one before. Very appropriate for some of us this weekend.

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Paul’s getting squashed.paul-mccartney

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5 February 2023
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I wonder if any Baker’s Dozen posts failed to get 13 references? I don’t think I’m going to browse through 363 pages to find the answer lol. 

That would be a fun exercise, to try to come up with a Baker’s Dozen challenge that you don’t want to succeed! For example, “name 13 Beatles & Solo songs that reference ice cream.” And the rule would be it has to be ice cream — it can’t be sherbet or gelato or pudding etc. nor can it be merely “ice” or “snow” etc.  The only one I can think of is Monkberry Moon Delight , insofar as a milkshake is technically made of ice cream, is it not?

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6 February 2023
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We’ve abandoned a few prompts because they required too much effort, but I don’t think there have been any actual failures. Not positive though…a-hard-days-night-paul-7

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6 February 2023
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Ron Nasty
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@Sea Belt said
That would be a fun exercise, to try to come up with a Baker’s Dozen challenge that you don’t want to succeed! For example, “name 13 Beatles & Solo songs that reference ice cream.” And the rule would be it has to be ice cream — it can’t be sherbet or gelato or pudding etc. nor can it be merely “ice” or “snow” etc.  The only one I can think of is Monkberry Moon Delight , insofar as a milkshake is technically made of ice cream, is it not?

I think knowingly creating a round that couldn’t be completed would see anyone who did it getting heavily criticised by other Forumpudlians for wasting their time and derailing the game (after all, however long it was strung out for, an impossible round wouldn’t give us someone to start the next list).

I’d predict the only result of such a pointless exercise would see them viewed as untrustworthy by others here, possible complaints to the mods, and an immediate change to the game rules stating that anyone creating a new list topic had to be confident there were at least 13 items which would allow the list to be completed.

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Ron Nasty said

@Sea Belt said

That would be a fun exercise, to try to come up with a Baker’s Dozen challenge that you don’t want to succeed! For example, “name 13 Beatles & Solo songs that reference ice cream.” And the rule would be it has to be ice cream — it can’t be sherbet or gelato or pudding etc. nor can it be merely “ice” or “snow” etc.  The only one I can think of is Monkberry Moon Delight , insofar as a milkshake is technically made of ice cream, is it not?

I think knowingly creating a round that couldn’t be completed would see anyone who did it getting heavily criticised by other Forumpudlians for wasting their time and derailing the game (after all, however long it was strung out for, an impossible round wouldn’t give us someone to start the next list).

I’d predict the only result of such a pointless exercise would see them viewed as untrustworthy by others here, possible complaints to the mods, and an immediate change to the game rules stating that anyone creating a new list topic had to be confident there were at least 13 items which would allow the list to be completed.

  

It seems the fun of a game like this lies optimally in between knowing and not knowing (so that each challenge is a risk) — and for the Beatles expert who knows there are 13 he can have fun challenging others (and they can have fun trying to come up with all of them).  But I guess if someone already knows there aren’t 13, that would not be very fun. I was thinking as a thought experiment, not literally.  I’m such a non-expert, the only way I could come up with one is by posing a wildly implausible and obvious one like “Name 13 Beatles songs that mention upside-down unicycles ridden by purple gorillas”.  Anyway, that’s why I posted the whimsical thought experiment in this thread.

Now today I find, you have changed your mind

6 February 2023
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Neely said
I haven’t even written my own song yet. I really need to get on that but damn it’s hard. I have no ideas at all.

 

Update:

I wrote 5 songs in 6 days because I had a snow break and used it for creativity. I began meditating and all of a sudden I can write.

 

Other update: 

One of my teachers said I looked like Paul McCartney today. I am having a great day. And I have Jazz Band Practice after school and we are playing my favourite jazz chart, Ain’t Misbehavin’ by Fats Waller. I am on vocals and bass!!

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