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Philosophy
8 May 2019
8.22am
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QuarryMan
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Well, Bernie is technically an independent when he sits in Congress, he's just running as a Democrat for President. 

Tall, dark-haired QuarryMan likes basketball, music, and naturally, girls. He was a valuable participant on the track team. He is one of Freeport's great contributors to the recording world. As for the immediate future, QuarryMan has no plans, but will take life as it comes. 

 

8 May 2019
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Beatlebug
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I think having politicians who align themselves with parties is fine (as long as their policies are based on their own principles and not just toeing the party line) but more voters need to be independent and not vote based on party affiliation.

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8 May 2019
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Beatlebug said
I think having politicians who align themselves with parties is fine (as long as their policies are based on their own principles and not just toeing the party line) but more voters need to be independent and not vote based on party affiliation.

  

yesYESyesYESyes

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9 May 2019
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Beatlebug said
I think having politicians who align themselves with parties is fine (as long as their policies are based on their own principles and not just toeing the party line) but more voters need to be independent and not vote based on party affiliation.

  

A thousand times yes! Especially in the US when the labels 'Democrat' and 'Republican' could describe a huge spectrum of different views. Like how the more libertarian, socially liberal Republicans are worlds apart from the more authoritarian hardcore conservatives, or the conservative 'blue dog' Democrats are completely different from the likes of Bernie. 

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9 May 2019
6.51pm
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Is oppressing oppression oppressive?

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9 May 2019
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The Hole Got Fixed
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50yearslate said
Is oppressing oppression oppressive?

  

Yes. You're oppressing something.

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9 May 2019
9.28pm
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Beatlebug
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The Hole Got Fixed said

50yearslate said
Is oppressing oppression oppressive?

Yes. You're oppressing something. 

Two wrongs don't make a right... though three rights make a left*. a-hard-days-night-george-10

In other news, affirmative action is discriminatory... ahdn_george_06

*

Does this mean that, if you put three right-wingers together, they cancel each other out and become one left-winger? Are three right-wingers equal to one lefty? Show your work. ahdn_george_01

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9 May 2019
9.33pm
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Kaniffee
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Beatlebug said

The Hole Got Fixed said

50yearslate said

Is oppressing oppression oppressive?

Yes. You're oppressing something. 

Two wrongs don't make a right... though three rights make a left*. a-hard-days-night-george-10

In other news, affirmative action is discriminatory... ahdn_george_06

*

Does this mean that, if you put three right-wingers together, they cancel each other out and become one left-winger? Are three right-wingers equal to one lefty? Show your work. ahdn_george_01

  

*I think that just means that someone's an inefficient driver.

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10 May 2019
11.34am
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QuarryMan
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In what context, @50yearslate ? I feel like the question plays into several debates which would be very interesting to discuss.

One would be punching Nazis. As entertaining as it is to watch the likes of Richard Spencer get absolutely clobbered, whether it is justified is a whole debate in itself. Is it oppressive to use violence (basically, to oppress) those whose ideology centres around violently oppressing other groups? I'd be inclined to say yes it is oppressive, but that the nature of Nazi ideology opens them up to it as a justified means of combatting them. It'd be different to say, punching conservatives or democratic socialists. 

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10 May 2019
11.48am
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Yeah that's sort of what I was thinking of. I saw a news article the other day about a Cubs fan who was banned for life because  they did some white power sign, and it sort of led to me coming up with the question (though of course they're not directly related). I was just curious to see people's thoughts.

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10 May 2019
12.37pm
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QuarryMan
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It's a complicated question which, as usual, goddess ContraPoints can answer better than I could, I think. 

This video is a very clever and well scripted illustration of the dangers of how the liberal mindset of being sympathetic to Naziism (in the name of free speech and the free marketplace of ideas) can end badly. What I'm sure people will appreciate about it is how none of the characters are presented as consistently good or bad, and all of their viewpoints have their merits and their problems (though admittedly the Nazi character has more than the others). 

This video is an interesting exploration of political violence. 

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13 May 2019
2.37pm
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Dark Overlord
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Sorry for being late to the party, i have been trying to keep my online usage to a minimum.

Anyways, it depends on what you mean by oppressing oppression. If you're referring to reverse discrimination, then yes, it's absolutely oppression. Even if women and minorities are still oppressed, it's not the white man's fault and trying to get revenge on the white man will only create oppression. If you're referring to overthrowing a corrupt government, then no, it's not oppression. This time the leader is to blame and must be removed in order to create a better world.

Also, i'm with Bernie, he's one of the few politicians who actually cares about people. If Hillary wins the primaries, i'm voting Republican, even if that means voting for Trump.

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13 May 2019
3.35pm
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QuarryMan said
One would be punching Nazis. As entertaining as it is to watch the likes of Richard Spencer get absolutely clobbered, whether it is justified is a whole debate in itself. Is it oppressive to use violence (basically, to oppress) those whose ideology centres around violently oppressing other groups? I'd be inclined to say yes it is oppressive, but that the nature of Nazi ideology opens them up to it as a justified means of combatting them. It'd be different to say, punching conservatives or democratic socialists.

There's 3 problems with what happened to Richard Spencer:

1. He's not a Nazi. He may espouse views we disagree with but he's a white supremacist, not a Nazi. Falsely accusing people of being Nazis makes the Holocaust seem not as bad as it actually was.

2. Even if he is, everyone should have the right to free speech, even Nazis and white supremacists. It doesn't mean we agree or are sympathetic with them, it just means we are anti-censorship and pro-free speech, something the above groups aren't.

3. Even if they shouldn't, using violence to silence those you disagree with is wrong and is something Nazis would do. Violence should only be used if you need to defend yourself or someone you love and there's nothing else you can do.

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13 May 2019
3.46pm
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Do you 100% support free speech in all of its capacities DO? Do you not think it could be dangerous to allow people, such as white supremacists who spread vile, bigoted and A LOT of false information to be given a platform that could easily allow more people to be turned to your opinions. If you keep on hearing 'all Irish people are thieves and crooks who deserve to be locked up' constantly, there will be a part of you that starts to believe it immediately. 

 

At my homestead, a lot of anti-vaxxers are being allowed to speak on television. They spew unproven lies that easily collapse when you look into them yourselves but gullible people or people who don't have the time to do their own research may go "oh well if her daughter became sick after getting the cervical cancer jab than I'm not vaccinating mine, despite the fact 000s of girls have had the vaccine without side effects. It's by giving people like this a platform to preach their untruths that their misinformation and deception is spread. 

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13 May 2019
4.15pm
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Yes, as long as you aren't harassing people, directly inciting violence, or making baseless or knowingly false and serious accusations (IE false rape accusations).

As for you're examples:

1. All groups of people have stereotypes associated with them but we need to accept that stereotypes aren't true and instead base people on individual merit, you don't need censorship to do this.

2. I don't see the problem there. I've seen both sides of the argument and personally believe that it should be up to the parents whether or not their child gets vaccinated. Sure, it makes no sense that scientists would intentionally inject people with poison but at the same time, there are a lot of stories of people getting immunized and shortly thereafter becoming autistic, intellectually disabled, or even dying.

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13 May 2019
5.41pm
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Yes, but that doesn't mean anti-vaxxers should be able to attack people for their personal choices. I've read a lot of really horrible things about parents who have lost their children and then been slammed on social media with awful messages blaming them for the death of their child. If an anti-vaxxer doesn't want to vaccinate their kid, that's fine, I don't care, but they need to respect other people's choices.

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13 May 2019
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Was my post stolen? where'd it go?

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13 May 2019
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Dark Overlord said

QuarryMan said

One would be punching Nazis. As entertaining as it is to watch the likes of Richard Spencer get absolutely clobbered, whether it is justified is a whole debate in itself. Is it oppressive to use violence (basically, to oppress) those whose ideology centres around violently oppressing other groups? I'd be inclined to say yes it is oppressive, but that the nature of Nazi ideology opens them up to it as a justified means of combatting them. It'd be different to say, punching conservatives or democratic socialists.

There's 3 problems with what happened to Richard Spencer:

1. He's not a Nazi. He may espouse views we disagree with but he's a white supremacist, not a Nazi. Falsely accusing people of being Nazis makes the Holocaust seem not as bad as it actually was.

So he wasn't in the German army in the 1930s, big deal. If you fraternise with Nazis, go to rallies with Nazis, and share identical views with Nazis, then in my opinion you are the same as a Nazi. And that doesn't really make sense to me, surely it makes the Holocaust seem worse? That the world didn't learn its lesson? The mere existence of Naziism in 2019 is enough for despair really. 

2. Even if he is, everyone should have the right to free speech, even Nazis and white supremacists. It doesn't mean we agree or are sympathetic with them, it just means we are anti-censorship and pro-free speech, something the above groups aren't.

Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from the consequences of speech. Spencer can spew his hate if he wants, but it does leave him open for someone to respond.

3. Even if they shouldn't, using violence to silence those you disagree with is wrong and is something Nazis would do. Violence should only be used if you need to defend yourself or someone you love and there's nothing else you can do.

  

I agree with this in principle, but if someone's ideology revolves around the use of violence to suppress and murder vulnerable groups, then they forgo the same rights to be free of violence, in my opinion. 

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13 May 2019
8.18pm
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The problem with silencing certain viewpoints is that that's the quickest way to further radicalise the people espousing those viewpoints. Silencing leads to radicalising which leads to violence against innocent people. So, yes, I don't care how bad an idea may be, someone has a right to shout about their bad ideas as long as they're not calling for violence.

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15 May 2019
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QuarryMan said
The mere existence of Nazism in 2019 is enough for despair really.

Not really, Nazis may still exist but they're such a small minority that doesn't get taken seriously so there's nothing to worry about.

Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from the consequences of speech. Spencer can spew his hate if he wants, but it does leave him open for someone to respond.

Of course, you can't have free speech without the right to criticize others views.

I agree with this in principle, but if someone's ideology revolves around the use of violence to suppress and murder vulnerable groups, then they forgo the same rights to be free of violence, in my opinion.

I have to disagree with you there, using violence to silence those you disagree with is wrong and when you do so, you're no better than those who you're attacking.

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