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Philosophy
3 May 2019
6.57am
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Timothy
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I grappled with this concept for a long time, and I don’t think voting should be compulsory. Deciding not to do something is true freedom, and if people aren’t engaged in the first place they’re not going to be voting properly anyway - or they’re simply getting their name ticked off. Those who follow politics and the issues are motivated to vote (and value its power) and vote from the heart. I don’t think non compulsory voting risks democracy. 

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3 May 2019
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50yearslate
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Wigwam said
Couldn't say the same for my UK experience.........

Had I had a vote at 16, or even earlier I'd vote for the sweet shop owner in the Socrates video every time.

  

I'm 15, and I'd certainly like to think that I'm mature enough and informed enough to make a decent decision. Most people I've met around my age are just as informed and would be just as capable.

(in other words, what Holey said.)

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3 May 2019
2.15pm
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Dark Overlord
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Not to mention, these laws apply to us so i think it's only fair that the voting age is lowered to at least 16. Personally, i would use a test instead of a age requirement. If you pass the test, you can vote but if you fail, you can't. Unfortunately, this would mean that people with intellectual disability wouldn't be able to vote but overall, i think this system would be better.

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3 May 2019
3.19pm
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QuarryMan
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I voted for the first time yesterday! It was exciting and somewhat humbling to take part in democracy, even if it was just a local council election. Personally, I feel that 16 year olds should have the right to vote, but that schools should simultaneously increase education about political matters. In fact, I'd even suggest that covering current affairs should be part of the curriculum so that students can't be oblivious to what is going on.

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3 May 2019
7.51pm
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Kaniffee
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Dark Overlord said
Not to mention, these laws apply to us so i think it's only fair that the voting age is lowered to at least 16. Personally, i would use a test instead of a age requirement. If you pass the test, you can vote but if you fail, you can't. Unfortunately, this would mean that people with intellectual disability wouldn't be able to vote but overall, i think this system would be better.

  

They used literacy tests to keep black people from voting in the US.  Any kind of test proposed in the US would probably be opposed on that principle alone.  And if it did succeed in passing it probably would actually disproportionately affect black people and prevent them from voting.

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3 May 2019
8.38pm
Wigwam
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Socrates did have a point.....If you look at any election the parties try to bribe you with goodies.

Labour pledges to abolish tuition fees as early as autumn 2017. New university students will be freed from paying £9,000 in tuition fees as early as this autumn if Labour wins the election, Jeremy Corbyn will say on Monday.May 21, 2017

Lots of sweets to vote for there.....And it worked.

 

But then.........

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-po.....s-40697326

 

Mind you they are mostly all as bad as each other........They know they have to appeal to voter's vested interests. It ain't rocket science. 

'Ill play whatever you want me to play, or I won't play at all. Whatever you want me to do I'll do it'.......They'll say.

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4 May 2019
4.46am
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QuarryMan
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Maybe I'm being naive, but isn't that the whole point of it? You let the public know what you have to offer them in exchange for their votes. Whether or not he's stuck with it, I don't see Corbyn's student debt write off as any different to any other manifesto promise. It's just policy, albeit one that would benefit a lot of people. 

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4 May 2019
5.34pm
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Dark Overlord
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To be fair, free college isn't as perfect of an idea as it may seem. Don't get me wrong, nothing sucks more than having to pay off student loans but to get free college, you have to charge taxpayers a pretty penny.

Is it worth it? That's hard to say but it's not surprising that Jeremy would back out once he realized the costs.

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4 May 2019
6.07pm
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The Hole Got Fixed
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The costs of paying means more will go there, which means you get a higher skilled workforce. 

Oh, by the way, this post was made by The Hole Got Fixed!

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4 May 2019
6.40pm
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The Hole Got Fixed said
The costs of paying means more will go there, which means you get a higher skilled workforce. 

  

Which leads to wages going up, more people working, more people coming to your country to study (thus spending money in the local economy), and most importantly for the government- more people paying more taxes a-hard-days-night-george-10.

There's a reason why so many multi-nationals have made their European headquarters in Ireland* (alongside our very low corporation tax of course), 53.5% of 30-34 year olds in Ireland have a 3rd level degree compared to the EU average of 40%. Over 30% of students are also enrolled in STEM courses which along with the pharmaceutical companies are the big businesses that are located here.

In saying that universities aren't free here for EU students you're paying €3,000 a year but a lot of the time you will get some of that subsidised or completely paid off, some students get a maintenance grant as well. 

Education is the greatest thing you can give to people, yes it will be expensive in the short-run but in the long-term it very much pays off. 

However, I do prefer the education system Germany has. In Ireland once you turn 18 you're expected to go to college even if you are not academically-suited you're expected to go and do some course and dropout after a year when you realise you're better off working in a factory, shop etc. Or worse you end up with kids who drift through the system taking advantage of low/free fees and end up with a terrible degree in a subject that's very hard to get work in like English and geography (the classic combination) or philosophy. 

The German system places more emphasis on trades and short-term courses that last a year or two that will provide you with good training and will let you get a job. I can imagine Ireland being screwed in 30 years when barely anyone bothered to go do plumbing, electrical, tiling, plastering, painting blah blah blah. Universities in Germany there are about €400 for the year and you get free travel in the state you're living in, basically a win-win and all us EU kids are idiots for not going to Germany for college. 

 

*Some of these include: Google, Facebook, Paypal, eBay, Microsoft, LinkedIn, Intel, Pfizer (fun fact the world's supply of Viagra is produced in Cork, the fumes of the factory give off *clears throat* an effect sometimes on the local male population), IBM, and Apple.

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4 May 2019
6.47pm
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Kaniffee
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Oof I know Euros are different than dollars and I don't know the exact conversion, but I wish college was that cheap in the US.

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4 May 2019
6.54pm
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Dark Overlord
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@AppleScruffJunior Wouldn't higher wages mean less people working?

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4 May 2019
7.06pm
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AppleScruffJunior
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I forgot to mention I don't think college should be free (or healthcare for that matter), however it should cost virtually nothing but still have a price tag.

Paying €300-€600 for university per year is something that most people would be able to do and if you couldn't meet those costs obviously you would be supported but even paying €50 a year, you're still paying something- it's not being handed to you.

The same for visiting a doctor I think you should be paying (if you receive a medical card which allows you to visit the GP for free currently) €5 because it might make people stop and consider not going into the doctors for such a stupid thing as a cold if they have to pay for it. Once again if you have something like a chronic illness that means you have to check in with a doctor regularly than that would be waived. Under-sixes get free healthcare here and every time I'm into the doctor's getting new prescriptions or renewing them, the amount of three or four year olds in there is crazy- surely most of them just need some Calpol and they'd be right as rain rather than clogging up waiting rooms.

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4 May 2019
7.09pm
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Dark Overlord said
@AppleScruffJunior Wouldn't higher wages mean less people working?

  

I mean if you have people who have higher skills e.g. they did a computer science degree because their education is supplemented than they will be qualified for jobs that offer better wages than saying doing unskilled labour like being a waiter that they might have to be if they can't afford third-level education.

Having a highly-skilled population attracts more businesses to locate in your country allowing for the creation of more jobs which leads to competition which leads to higher wages. 

 

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5 May 2019
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QuarryMan
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Dark Overlord said
To be fair, free college isn't as perfect of an idea as it may seem. Don't get me wrong, nothing sucks more than having to pay off student loans but to get free college, you have to charge taxpayers a pretty penny.

Is it worth it? That's hard to say but it's not surprising that Jeremy would back out once he realized the costs.

  

We used to have free university up until the 1990s. It wasn't perfect, but it's far better than what we have now. 

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6 May 2019
12.22pm
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PurplishRain
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I was never able to vote. I turned 18 16 days after Election Day 2018. It kinda sucked but i am not as interested in politics as i used to be. 

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6 May 2019
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QuarryMan
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Which of the US Democratic presidential nominees that have so far announced do you guys prefer? Preferably not for the purposes of comparison with President Trump but rather with one another. Personally, I'm solidly in the Bernie Sanders camp. 

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6 May 2019
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I'm an ignorant piece of slime and I don't know who the nominees are yet...

well I know a few. But not all.

I don't know enough to have formed an opinion yet mccartney-shrug_01_gif

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6 May 2019
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QuarryMan
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There are quite a lot of them, and most of them will pretty soon be rendered irrelevant or drop out so I wouldn't worry about that. 

The main ones so far have been: 

Joe Biden, best known for his time as Democratic senator for Delaware and as Obama's vice President. Ideologically, he is probably a centre right candidate. Personally I am solidly anti-Biden and I really hope he does not get the nomination. 

Kamala Harris is the ex-attorney general of California, who is currently a senator for California.

Bernie Sanders, best known for his time as a senator for Vermont and his presidential run in 2016. He's my personal favourite on policy and I believe he is the most able to beat Trump. 

Beto O'Rourke is an ex-representative for Texas who almost beat Ted Cruz for the senate in 2018.

Pete Buttigeg is a former naval officer and a mayor of a town in Indiana.  

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6 May 2019
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Kaniffee
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I don't think they're considered nominees until, they've run the primaries.  Right now they're just running.

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