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Philosophy
9 April 2019
4.50pm
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The Hole Got Fixed
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Yeah, speaking as a gay person I couldn't agree more with QuarryMan. 

The one argument that is used the most in favour of same-sex marriage etc is that scientifically it isn't a choice, it's how your brain is hard-wired. You read stories about LGBTQI+ people fleeing persecution from generally the Middle East all the time - why would they risk death because of a 'choice'

It simply isn't a choice - there's no second way of explaining the answer. 

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Oh, by the way, this post was made by The Hole Got Fixed!

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9 April 2019
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Getbackintheussr
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a-hard-days-night-ringo-8Y E S

P E A C E  &  L O V E

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9 April 2019
5.41pm
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QuarryMan
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Absolutely a-hard-days-night-ringo-8People realising that they are gay usually works just the same as straight people experiencing their hormones for the first time. The only difference is that straight people probably assume that's what they are anyways, so it's not really a realisation. 

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Tall, dark-haired QuarryMan likes basketball, music, and naturally, boys. He was a valuable participant on the track team. He is one of Freeport's great contributors to the recording world. As for the immediate future, QuarryMan has no plans, but will take life as it comes. 

 

9 April 2019
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It's funny......People here are ready to go with homosexuality not being  a choice, 'that's down to nature they say'..... I agree....99%

....But when it comes to women having no biological leanings towards certain professions, 'that's down to nurture' they chorus. The grip of the feminist mantra is so strong. Observation and sovereign thinking is not allowed here.... 'Bad nurture.. the evil male patriarchy and lack of choice holding back their sisters in Engineering and the Boardroom.'

When choice is exactly what it's down to...... women don't in general find tinkering round with inanimate objects and abstract numbers as rewarding as interacting with people or animals .....Whereas men given the choice will play happily for hours tinkering around with their cars.....Or building steam engines in their man dens.

Come on!!!......Consider the possibility that men and women are different and mostly have different proclivities. 

We fit together that way......

I'm not having a go at homosexuals.....Sparta was built on it.....'Love' helped to hold those shields together.

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9 April 2019
6.15pm
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Dark Overlord
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The Hole Got Fixed said
The one argument that is used the most in favour of same-sex marriage etc is that scientifically it isn't a choice, it's how your brain is hard-wired.

It's unfortunate that some people think this way. There's nothing wrong with being gay because homosexuality is harmless and can be done between consenting adults, it's a real shame that some people are only okay with it because "they can't help it".

Why would they risk death because of a 'choice'

Because of freedom, wouldn't you try to run away to a better place if you were being denied the freedom to do what you want to do?

I must say though, you guys have real good responses. I think we're seeing it from different angles. I view it from the angle of does the guy have relationships with guys or girls whereas you guys appear to view it from the angle of does the guy get turned on by guys or girls.

There's 2 reasons i view it from this angle. First, some may argue that since homosexuality isn't a choice, any sexual preference isn't a choice since you can only get an erection by that specific thing. Second, there are men who are only turned on by other men who prefer to have relations with women and men who are only turned on by girls who prefer to have relations with other men, they're rare but they do exist.

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9 April 2019
6.16pm
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50yearslate
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(whoops, a Fiddy-- this is in response to Wigwam's post.)

"Men and women are different" 

ugh.

I know there are biological differences between the two genders but I hate this generalisation. I'm sure there are plenty of men who enjoy tinkering with their cars, but there are also plenty who don't, and there are plenty of women who also enjoy such activities. I hate these stereotypes. People should be able to do what they enjoy, whether it's "feminine" or "masculine"-- it shouldn't make the slightest bit of difference.

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Love one another.

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9 April 2019
6.22pm
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QuarryMan
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See, the thing is that we aren't denying that biology has an influence in the predispositions of men and woman... to a point. What we're opposed to (or at least, what I'm opposed to) is that being used as an excuse to deny women an even shot at things. I think the most logical diagnosis is that it is a mixture between the factors of nature and nurture, but I don't like restricting people's choices based on an expectation of how they're going to behave according to the categories they fall into. 

After all, critics of giving women the vote or the ability to seek employment and be financially independent from men argued that this wasn't what women wanted anyway due to their inherent nature, but this hasn't stopped billions of women voting and finding jobs once they had the chance. It's easy to see an equality and pass it off as due to nature, but I think this process should be subject to much scrutiny at the very least to ensure its not due to other factors. 

Tall, dark-haired QuarryMan likes basketball, music, and naturally, boys. He was a valuable participant on the track team. He is one of Freeport's great contributors to the recording world. As for the immediate future, QuarryMan has no plans, but will take life as it comes. 

 

9 April 2019
6.23pm
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Exactly.

You get my points...... And even demonstrate them.

I know when khen khrok khuen khao......Pushing a rice pounder up a hill is beyond my capacity..... So knowing my limits this probably will be my last fruitless contribution, not on feminism...and its fallacies....

But on it's mean attributes.

The feminist harpies I've met have been brittle, intolerant, unforgiving and narcissistic in the extreme, believing their world view is the norm. A world where feminists do our science for us is not a good one. (as you will have seen if you watched the videos I posted)..... All they produce is chaos and alienation.

Men in general will keep their heads down......But I don't have anything to lose anymore and do my own sovereign thinking.

Over a game of chess I asked my son very carefully about his experience at Uni' and what the political situation is like there and specifically about the strident feminism minorities that are so prevalent and vocal.

My son is laconic, maths and sports mad... and easy going...He shrugs, "There's some....I'm not interested"

Probing delicately a little further..'What do you think about the feminists on campus?'

"They're  okay.....but who'd marry one?' 

 

Edit:

Quarry man 'Thanked' me before my long edit and so doesn't necessarily agree with anything following....'Even demonstrate them'

I don't want him tarred with the same brush.....He could lose his pavement cred'

cheers

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9 April 2019
6.33pm
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Dark Overlord said

Why would they risk death because of a 'choice'

Because of freedom, wouldn't you try to run away to a better place if you were being denied the freedom to do what you want to do?

If it was a choice then gay people who lived in places like Nazi Germany would simply choose not to be gay. Clearly, they couldn't do that. 

I must say though, you guys have real good responses. I think we're seeing it from different angles. I view it from the angle of does the guy have relationships with guys or girls whereas you guys appear to view it from the angle of does the guy get turned on by guys or girls.

There's 2 reasons i view it from this angle. First, some may argue that since homosexuality isn't a choice, any sexual preference isn't a choice since you can only get an erection by that specific thing. Second, there are men who are only turned on by other men who prefer to have relations with women and men who are only turned on by girls who prefer to have relations with other men, they're rare but they do exist.

I'm not following. Why would someone prefer having relations with people they're not attracted to? I can understand all the poor closeted gay people from previous generations who married someone of the opposite gender since that's what was expected of them, but that's a completely different thing.

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Tall, dark-haired QuarryMan likes basketball, music, and naturally, boys. He was a valuable participant on the track team. He is one of Freeport's great contributors to the recording world. As for the immediate future, QuarryMan has no plans, but will take life as it comes. 

 

9 April 2019
7.03pm
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The Hole Got Fixed
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QuarryMan said

Dark Overlord said

Why would they risk death because of a 'choice'

Because of freedom, wouldn't you try to run away to a better place if you were being denied the freedom to do what you want to do?

If it was a choice then gay people who lived in places like Nazi Germany would simply choose not to be gay. Clearly, they couldn't do that. 

Exactly.

I must say though, you guys have real good responses. I think we're seeing it from different angles. I view it from the angle of does the guy have relationships with guys or girls whereas you guys appear to view it from the angle of does the guy get turned on by guys or girls.

There's 2 reasons i view it from this angle. First, some may argue that since homosexuality isn't a choice, any sexual preference isn't a choice since you can only get an erection by that specific thing. Second, there are men who are only turned on by other men who prefer to have relations with women and men who are only turned on by girls who prefer to have relations with other men, they're rare but they do exist.

I'm not following. Why would someone prefer having relations with people they're not attracted to? I can understand all the poor closeted gay people from previous generations who married someone of the opposite gender since that's what was expected of them, but that's a completely different thing.

  

If someone is heteroromantic but homosexual or vice-versa. 

 

There are a tiny number of such people. It just further proves how complicated sexuality is.

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Oh, by the way, this post was made by The Hole Got Fixed!

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9 April 2019
7.28pm
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Dark Overlord
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QuarryMan said
If it was a choice then gay people who lived in places like Nazi Germany would simply choose not to be gay. Clearly, they couldn't do that.

The problem is that it's likely that the Nazis persecuted those with stereotypical gay attributes, but since these are stereotypes, they don't always add up and you'd get straight people getting captured for displaying these features and gay people avoiding capture for not displaying these features.

For example, although i'm turned on by girls, i have a stereotypical gay voice, so i'd likely be sent to a concentration camp despite not being gay.

So i don't think it would matter much whether or not homosexuality was a choice.

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9 April 2019
7.53pm
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Starr Shine?
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People risk death with beliefs like religion despite their being no logical reason to hold such beliefs.

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9 April 2019
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Religion a foolish answer to a foolish question........

'Tommy Selby Peaky Blinders' 

10 April 2019
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QuarryMan
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Don't worry about pavement cred, @Wigwam . The beauty of the 'thank' feature is that you can show your appreciation for someone's contribution without necessarily agreeing with it.

Dark Overlord said

QuarryMan said

If it was a choice then gay people who lived in places like Nazi Germany would simply choose not to be gay. Clearly, they couldn't do that.

The problem is that it's likely that the Nazis persecuted those with stereotypical gay attributes, but since these are stereotypes, they don't always add up and you'd get straight people getting captured for displaying these features and gay people avoiding capture for not displaying these features.

For example, although i'm turned on by girls, i have a stereotypical gay voice, so i'd likely be sent to a concentration camp despite not being gay.

So i don't think it would matter much whether or not homosexuality was a choice.

  

But you can choose how you sound, you can't choose who you're attracted to. How a person acts in terms of appearance or voice or campness doesn't change either way who they're attracted to. 

Tall, dark-haired QuarryMan likes basketball, music, and naturally, boys. He was a valuable participant on the track team. He is one of Freeport's great contributors to the recording world. As for the immediate future, QuarryMan has no plans, but will take life as it comes. 

 

10 April 2019
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Dark Overlord
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The way you sound is similar to your sexuality in that regards. If you really wanted to, you could fake your way through the proper accent but it typically doesn't feel right. As for your second point, that's true but but your voice and appearance can mean the difference between being caught and not being caught in certain homophobic areas, regardless of your sexuality.

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10 April 2019
8.47am
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How is your voice linked to your sexuality? I'm bisexual and I don't do any particular accent or sound camp at all. I live in a very homophobic rural area so I don't know many other gay people, but only one of those I've met has had a stereotypically camp voice. 

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10 April 2019
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Here is a link about it

https://youtu.be/52nwiTs7bk8

Brainwashed by RadiantCowbells.

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10 April 2019
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Men and women are different.....Someone found my stating that truth as worthy of his contumely. This indicated to me that it needed saying again.   

Around 20 years ago I attended a very interesting lecture on the different ways the majority, (80/20% split) of boys and girls learnt. As part of that lecture a fascinating difference between the sexes was pointed out that I had never noticed before......

We were all asked to......

Take a look at our left hand. Laying it flat on a surface and comparing finger length between index and ring finger, to see if the ring finger is noticeably longer. I noticed my ring finger was about 2cms longer. My hands are not big but this difference was very pronounced.

In roughly 80% of men the ring finger is longer and in 80% of women they are the same.

Previous research has found that this "2D:4D" ratio — the ratio of the length of the second digit (the index finger) to that of the fourth digit (the ring finger) — reveals the amount of male hormones, mainly testosterone, a person is exposed to in the womb. The more testosterone, the longer the ring finger grows.

Typically in women, the index and ring fingers are similar in length, while in men there is a greater difference between the two fingers. However, lesbians were found to have more “male-typical” finger-length ratios than their straight co-twins — but just in their left hand.Oct 22, 2018

If you're interested read on...

There's lots more research if you do a search.

This is only the first I turned up...

https://www.nbcnews.com/featur.....dy-n922291

10 April 2019
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QuarryMan
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Again, no one is denying that there are biological differences between men and women. What we're saying is that we can't put any instances of inequality in the workplace (and in life in general) solely down to biology when there are other factors that play a role that is just as big or even bigger. 

Tall, dark-haired QuarryMan likes basketball, music, and naturally, boys. He was a valuable participant on the track team. He is one of Freeport's great contributors to the recording world. As for the immediate future, QuarryMan has no plans, but will take life as it comes. 

 

10 April 2019
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My ring finger is longer.

 

til i'm a dude. Woah

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