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Philosophy
7 April 2019
12.37am
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50yearslate
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I'll admit I often make the same mistake with QuarryMan because of the Björk avatar... sorry QM! :/

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7 April 2019
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QuarryMan
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Beatlebug said
Also find it ironic that Wigwam assumed QuarryMan was a girl (maybe partly because of Björk in his avatar there?) even though his username is QuarryMan a-hard-days-night-john-6

Which reminds me, @QuarryMan I noticed you referred to me as 'they' a while back, why? I'm pretty pronoun-apathetic but I think it's also been made pretty clear that I'm female (albeit a not very feminine female who occasionally is mistaken for a boy IRL), based on my history around here... so I was just curious. mccartney-shrug_01_gif

  

Huh, I'd never actually realised that my username sounded that way, amusing I guess a-hard-days-night-john-6

I think I remember why that was, for some reason I couldn't remember so I just went with they as an option that wouldn't cause offence either way mccartney-shrug_01_gifDidn't your username used to be Silly Girl anyway? 

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7 April 2019
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50yearslate said
I'll admit I often make the same mistake with QuarryMan because of the Björk avatar... sorry QM! :/

  

No problem! Honestly the idea that I could be mistaken for Björk is in itself amazing a-hard-days-night-john-6john-lennon-salute_gif

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7 April 2019
5.22pm
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QuarryMan said
Didn't your username used to be Silly Girl anyway?   

Yes.

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8 April 2019
4.03am
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Make of this what your conditioning ..  you want.....I'd prefer you applied maths and logic .

Similar videos without the condescending triumphant commentary .

8 April 2019
4.34am
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QuarryMan
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The gender pay gap is a really interesting issue, and it's one I believe a lot of feminists misunderstand or approach incorrectly, which kinda makes them fish in a barrel for people like that.

I think a lot of people assume that when we say something like "women only make 85 cents for every dollar that men make" it means that women are directly paid less for doing the same work. This isn't really the case in the Western world since it's illegal pretty much everywhere, and while it happens in isolated cases, its few and far between.

The real pay gap I think is that overall men have a higher net salary since there are more men in highly paying positions, making their total earnings correspondingly higher even though there aren't a huge amount more men in the workplace or anything. So why aren't there more women in highly paying positions? Well, part of the reason is that often by the time women get to the age they'd normally be promoted to those positions, in their early to mid 30s or so, they want to have kids, so their career takes a backseat to that. I think the solution there is for husbands to do their fare share of looking after children, as well as increasing childcare options for these women outside of that. 

There are more reasons but I don't have the time right now to type it all out, so hopefully there'll be some discussion on this in the meantime.

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8 April 2019
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Getbackintheussr
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I agree with that. The gender pay gap is based on median salary, which means there are more women in lower-paid jobs than men. A lot of this has to do with women having kids, which mostly can't be helped. But there's also a lot of discrimination when it comes to promoting women and men. There's a reason there hasn't been a female American president yet. So basically, I think there's always going to be a gap, but the gap should be way smaller. 

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8 April 2019
5.33am
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The Hole Got Fixed
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Women aren't usually payed less than men, they usually have less opportunity (I recall reading somewhere but don't have the means to look it up right now that there are 20x more male CEOs than female)

Lleyonhelm gets on my nerves something shocking and I did not expect to see him on this forum. Luckily for me it looks like he won't hold onto his seat in the upcoming election. 

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8 April 2019
6.27am
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QuarryMan
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The Hole Got Fixed said
Women aren't usually payed less than men, they usually have less opportunity (I recall reading somewhere but don't have the means to look it up right now that there are 20x more male CEOs than female)

Lleyonhelm gets on my nerves something shocking and I did not expect to see him on this forum. Luckily for me it looks like he won't hold onto his seat in the upcoming election. 

  

What does he stand for? 

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8 April 2019
6.30am
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Obviously for equal work there must be equal pay.........I actually believe that is law in most western countries.

However, i would have thought the women in these clips, due to the simple fact of their professional and passionate involvement with this subject  would have had a much greater command of it....They should have been able to fend off this senator with consummate ease but they were completely baffled.

THAT tends to suggest to me that because of a set of bias' they haven't interrogated the stats' with any objectivity.....Only with a previous planned purpose.

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8 April 2019
6.41am
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I think you're probably right. Frustratingly, this seems to be a losing issue for feminism because many simply don't understand the issue and are then made to look stupid by those who do. It's annoying, because I think it's something the majority of reasonable people across the political spectrum can agree on once they know the reality of the situation. 

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8 April 2019
6.47am
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The Hole Got Fixed said
Women aren't usually payed less than men, they usually have less opportunity (I recall reading somewhere but don't have the means to look it up right now that there are 20x more male CEOs than female)

Lleyonhelm gets on my nerves something shocking and I did not expect to see him on this forum. Luckily for me it looks like he won't hold onto his seat in the upcoming election. 

  

I usually focus on Beatles only on here but yes, I expect many people to lose their seats in the coming election. Serves them right, to be honest. People are fed up with them all.

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8 April 2019
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The idea of women getting paid less for the same work is absurd not just because of the Equal Pay Act of 1963 but also because there's a good chance they'd sue the second they found out they were getting paid less then their equally important male colleague (or vice versa if the employer paid her female employees more for the same work) and it's great to hear this from other feminists.

But one thing i'd like to point out is that we should only have a woman president if she's a worthy candidate, i would never vote for someone just because of their gender and or race.

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8 April 2019
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The Hole Got Fixed
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QuarryMan said

The Hole Got Fixed said

Women aren't usually payed less than men, they usually have less opportunity (I recall reading somewhere but don't have the means to look it up right now that there are 20x more male CEOs than female)

Lleyonhelm gets on my nerves something shocking and I did not expect to see him on this forum. Luckily for me it looks like he won't hold onto his seat in the upcoming election. 

  

What does he stand for? 

  

A lot of things I don't stand for (though apparently he supports same sex marriage and abortion? Didn't know that). He's more tolerable than some people in our parliament, but from wikipedia:

He supported the repeal of the Minerals Resource Rent Tax and carbon tax, but opposed the Abbott Government's proposed paid parental leave and "direct action" on climate change schemes as "bad in principle" and "a waste of taxpayers' money", respectively. The LDP's position on climate change is that the scientific evidence is not yet "compelling" and that "changes in human activity could realistically reverse those consequences", but the party "would favour market-based options" if the science is confirmed by further study. Notably, Leyonhjelm has proposed charging a fee for permanent residency in Australia as a way of discouraging people smuggling.

I said 'Luckily for me it looks like he won't hold onto his seat in the upcoming election.'

In my research I just did I found out he resigned to run for a state senate seat in March, so that's interesting.

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8 April 2019
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Dark Overlord said
The idea of women getting paid less for the same work is absurd not just because of the Equal Pay Act of 1963 but also because there's a good chance they'd sue the second they found out they were getting paid less then their equally important male colleague (or vice versa if the employer paid her female employees more for the same work) and it's great to hear this from other feminists.

But one thing i'd like to point out is that we should only have a woman president if she's a worthy candidate, i would never vote for someone just because of their gender and or race.

  

Sure, but I don't think either of those things are 100% preventative. It's often considered pretty rude for employees to question each other about their salary amounts, so I bet a lot of the time women don't even realise they're being conned. That said, it is illegal so any occurrences are pretty rare anyway. 

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8 April 2019
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QuarryMan said
The real pay gap I think is that overall men have a higher net salary since there are more men in highly paying positions, making their total earnings correspondingly higher even though there aren't a huge amount more men in the workplace or anything. So why aren't there more women in highly paying positions? Well, part of the reason is that often by the time women get to the age they'd normally be promoted to those positions, in their early to mid 30s or so, they want to have kids, so their career takes a backseat to that. I think the solution there is for husbands to do their fare share of looking after children, as well as increasing childcare options for these women outside of that. 

I think it's also important to point out that many women choose to give up career opportunities for family life because that's what they want, and that is really quite a commendable sacrifice to make. Women are, in general, biologically programmed to favour those kinds of nurturing roles. Exceptions do exist of course, and perhaps we should have better childcare options available. And dads definitely need to be involved -- their involvement has improved over the past few decades, but there's still a huge absent-father problem in many communities (at least in the US, I don't know about other countries).

I've also heard that women in the workplace tend to be less aggressive about requesting pay raises and that sort of thing, so that may be a factor as well. mccartney-shrug_01_gif

Getbackintheussr said
But there's also a lot of discrimination when it comes to promoting women and men. There's a reason there hasn't been a female American president yet.  

There are a lot of reasons there hasn't been a female American president yet, and I don't think discrimination against women is a big factor.

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8 April 2019
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Definitely. I think a lot of anti-feminists believe that feminists want to stop women having or raising kids or force them into a career even if they want to be a stay at home mother. I think the point is that it should always be the woman's choice, and that's the major achievement of feminism. If a woman wants to do as Beatlebug says, as likely encouraged by hormonal factors, then that's great, and they should be supported in that decision. 

As for the female American president, remember that Hillary did win the popular vote in 2016 by at least a couple million! Even though the electoral college favoured Trump, it's still a great thing that the public accepted a female candidate so strongly. Plus, I didn't see her gender actually brought up that much except by only the most sexist of Republicans. Plus she was a flawed candidate who was mostly seen as the lesser of two evils at best. Imagine what the support would be like for a younger, more popular female candidate. 

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9 April 2019
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Do you think homosexuality is a choice, i think yes. While the erection isn't a choice, there's nothing stopping someone who's turned on by people of the same sex to have relations with someone of the opposite sex besides the fact that they just don't want to.

Sadly, a lot of people will either say that homosexuality is wrong because it's a choice or homosexuality isn't wrong because they can't help it, like as if something being a choice immediately makes it bad.

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9 April 2019
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I don't understand-- how on earth is homosexuality a choice? How is any kind of sexuality a choice? I can't choose who I'm attracted to any more than I can choose the color of the sky.

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9 April 2019
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Erm... what??? It isn't a choice. You think all the gay people that have been historically persecuted - and are persecuted to this day - could just choose not to be gay? That's not how it works at all. You can suppress your sexuality and you can force yourself into heterosexual relationships, but at the end of the day it's still going to be part of you. Speaking as a bisexual person I know this firsthand. 

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