Please consider registering
Guest
sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_Feed sp_TopicIcon
Philosophy
5 April 2019
5.49am
Avatar
QuarryMan
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 2602
Member Since:
26 January 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1221sp_Permalink sp_Print

I understand but I can't support battling unfairness in the system with systemised unfairness. .....because it's unfair.

Even though I disagree, this is a very reasonable and justified conclusion to make, and to some degree I share that viewpoint. I guess, in regards to our discussion about Peterson, we both differ from him in that we can agree that inequality is down to far more than just biology, power influence and celebrity as you put it, amongst other things. Where we differ is in the steps that should be taken to reverse said inequality. 

And thank you! heartI'm going to be studying politics at university next year, but I don't think I will actually become a politician... at least until Brexit is over and done with a-hard-days-night-john-6

Tall, dark-haired QuarryMan likes basketball, music, and naturally, boys. He was a valuable participant on the track team. He is one of Freeport's great contributors to the recording world. As for the immediate future, QuarryMan has no plans, but will take life as it comes. 

 

5 April 2019
6.15am
Wigwam
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1876
Member Since:
17 October 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1222sp_Permalink sp_Print

One of my A levels back in 1968 was 'British Constitution'....It wasn't taken-up out of any interest in politics but mainly because it could be squeezed it into a year AND girls from the sister school joined the course.

A great motivator in a boys only school.......Mind you there wasn't a #Me Too movement then......Although it was the age of free love our primitive advances were still called for good reason a bit of 'slap and tickle'.

Different times.

The following people thank Wigwam for this post:

QuarryMan, Beatlebug
5 April 2019
7.54am
Avatar
QuarryMan
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 2602
Member Since:
26 January 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1223sp_Permalink sp_Print

I find it so odd how common single sex schools used to be. I'm glad there aren't many around anymore, I think I would have found school unimaginably dull with only other boys. I think the boys at my school would still be the exact same in that situation, though a-hard-days-night-john-6

Tall, dark-haired QuarryMan likes basketball, music, and naturally, boys. He was a valuable participant on the track team. He is one of Freeport's great contributors to the recording world. As for the immediate future, QuarryMan has no plans, but will take life as it comes. 

 

5 April 2019
4.47pm
Avatar
Dark Overlord
Nowhere Land
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4015
Member Since:
9 March 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I think a better way to fix inequality is to have it so everyone's application says nothing about their:

Biological sex/gender identity

Biological ethnicity/racial identity

Sexual interests (as long as it's between consenting adults)

Disabilities (if any)

Religious/political beliefs (if any)

Weight/height

Class

Now employers have no choice but to hire solely based on their credentials. It would mean that we can no longer have interviews but it's far better than affirmative action since now everybody has equal opportunity and an employer who might reject people based on one of these things can't because now he won't know until after he hires them and if she fires them based on these things, they'll get in big trouble.

The following people thank Dark Overlord for this post:

Wigwam, 50yearslate

If you're reading this, you are looking for something to do.

5 April 2019
5.12pm
Avatar
The Hole Got Fixed
A Dock at Southampton
Moderator

Moderators
Forum Posts: 6995
Member Since:
27 November 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1225sp_Permalink sp_Print

I agree but interviews are necessary. 

Also..

"because now he won't know until after he hires them and if she fires them based on these things, they'll get in big trouble."

The pronouns in this section confused me a lot!

Oh, by the way, this post was made by The Hole Got Fixed!

2016 awards: Username-Badge.png 2017 awards: The-Hole-Got-Fixed-2017.png 2018 awards:The-Hole-Got-Fixed-2018.png

5 April 2019
5.16pm
Avatar
Dark Overlord
Nowhere Land
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4015
Member Since:
9 March 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I intentionally distorted the pronouns to be as non-sexist as possible.

Although looking back, i wish i said "because now he won't know until after she hires them and if he fires them based on these things, she'll get in big trouble." since that's a better alteration.

If you're reading this, you are looking for something to do.

5 April 2019
5.24pm
Avatar
The Hole Got Fixed
A Dock at Southampton
Moderator

Moderators
Forum Posts: 6995
Member Since:
27 November 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1227sp_Permalink sp_Print

Just use 'they'. 'They' also includes gender non-conforming people, and prevents me from getting totally and utterly confused by changes in gender to the subject half way through a sentence!

The following people thank The Hole Got Fixed for this post:

50yearslate

Oh, by the way, this post was made by The Hole Got Fixed!

2016 awards: Username-Badge.png 2017 awards: The-Hole-Got-Fixed-2017.png 2018 awards:The-Hole-Got-Fixed-2018.png

5 April 2019
5.37pm
Avatar
QuarryMan
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 2602
Member Since:
26 January 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1228sp_Permalink sp_Print

That sounds reasonable, but also pretty tricky to implement. It's interesting to consider though, and seems like it could be a way forward. 

Tall, dark-haired QuarryMan likes basketball, music, and naturally, boys. He was a valuable participant on the track team. He is one of Freeport's great contributors to the recording world. As for the immediate future, QuarryMan has no plans, but will take life as it comes. 

 

5 April 2019
5.58pm
Avatar
Dark Overlord
Nowhere Land
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4015
Member Since:
9 March 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1229sp_Permalink sp_Print

I guess i could just use they but wouldn't it make more sense to use it since it's singular and they is plural.

If you're reading this, you are looking for something to do.

5 April 2019
6.01pm
Avatar
The Hole Got Fixed
A Dock at Southampton
Moderator

Moderators
Forum Posts: 6995
Member Since:
27 November 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1230sp_Permalink sp_Print

They can be singular or plural

Oh, by the way, this post was made by The Hole Got Fixed!

2016 awards: Username-Badge.png 2017 awards: The-Hole-Got-Fixed-2017.png 2018 awards:The-Hole-Got-Fixed-2018.png

6 April 2019
6.19am
Avatar
QuarryMan
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 2602
Member Since:
26 January 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1231sp_Permalink sp_Print

Continuing on from the above discussion, I'm Just Curious™ - how do people feel about pronoun usage with trans people? Personally I see no good reason why we shouldn't refer to someone by their preferred pronouns, but I'd find it interesting to see views on the opposing side, provided we keep it civil and respectful.

Tall, dark-haired QuarryMan likes basketball, music, and naturally, boys. He was a valuable participant on the track team. He is one of Freeport's great contributors to the recording world. As for the immediate future, QuarryMan has no plans, but will take life as it comes. 

 

6 April 2019
6.30am
Avatar
The Hole Got Fixed
A Dock at Southampton
Moderator

Moderators
Forum Posts: 6995
Member Since:
27 November 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1232sp_Permalink sp_Print

Can't offer you opposing views - I think you should use what the person wants you to use!

Also, when online like here, I'm a strong advocate for 'they' if you don't know the preferred pronouns!

The following people thank The Hole Got Fixed for this post:

QuarryMan, 50yearslate

Oh, by the way, this post was made by The Hole Got Fixed!

2016 awards: Username-Badge.png 2017 awards: The-Hole-Got-Fixed-2017.png 2018 awards:The-Hole-Got-Fixed-2018.png

6 April 2019
7.09am
Avatar
Dark Overlord
Nowhere Land
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4015
Member Since:
9 March 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1233sp_Permalink sp_Print

I agree with both of you in that i will always use people's preferred pronouns. However, i will guess if i'm unaware of their pronouns and they look male/female.

The following people thank Dark Overlord for this post:

QuarryMan

If you're reading this, you are looking for something to do.

6 April 2019
8.14am
Avatar
QuarryMan
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 2602
Member Since:
26 January 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1234sp_Permalink sp_Print

Definitely. I was considering this question after watching conservative pundit Ben Shapiro talk about how he will call Caitlyn Jenner "Caitlin Jenner" but he won't refer to her as "she" because he thinks its a lie to refer to someone with pronouns that don't match their chromosomes.

This assumes that one's pronouns are determined by their chromosomes, but I think this is a poor understanding of this issue and language in general. 

1) Firstly, chromosomes were only discovered in 1905, while the origins of gender specific pronouns can be traced back to around 500BC. So they're not inherently tied together. 

2) Secondly, Ben's argument rests on the idea that a word's meaning is set in stone and unchangeable, what we might call a prescriptive view of language. However, most linguists recognise that the approach should actually be descriptive, as meanings of words change over time and through their use. For example, the word "straight' has gained the additional meaning of heterosexuality through usage in that context. Therefore, if trans women live their lives as women and are referred to as "she" or "her" throughout their everyday experience, then they're not lying. 

Another interesting way of looking at it is by comparing it to adoptive parents. They're not parents biologically, but in every context except medical (where a doctor has to know if they are the parents biologically to properly diagnose hereditary conditions) they act as the parents, and I'm sure most everyone would have no problems referring to them as their child's parents. The same goes for trans people as while they may be required to be treated according to chromosome medically, in every other context they can live their life as their chosen gender. 

The following people thank QuarryMan for this post:

Getbackintheussr, The Hole Got Fixed, Beatlebug

Tall, dark-haired QuarryMan likes basketball, music, and naturally, boys. He was a valuable participant on the track team. He is one of Freeport's great contributors to the recording world. As for the immediate future, QuarryMan has no plans, but will take life as it comes. 

 

6 April 2019
8.31am
Avatar
Dark Overlord
Nowhere Land
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4015
Member Since:
9 March 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1235sp_Permalink sp_Print

While i will refer to someone with their preferred pronouns, we must remember that they're still biologically a man (or woman). So while i would refer to someone like ContraPoints as a woman and use female pronouns, i know her as a man. Same thing with transracials, i'll refer to someone like Rachel Dolezal as black but i know her as white.

If you're reading this, you are looking for something to do.

6 April 2019
8.40am
Avatar
Getbackintheussr
The Void
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1243
Member Since:
13 January 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Transracials actually exist? I really don't know how to feel about that. a-hard-days-night-paul-10It's pretty weird.

I think everyone should refer to people by their preferred pronouns regardless of how they feel about it. It's just the right thing to do, and it doesn't hurt anyone. 

P E A C E  &  L O V E

Sunglasses-Emoji-PNG-Transparent-Background.pngstar-emoji-by-google.png1f549.png1f98f.pngbroccoli_1f966.pngdrum-with-drumsticks_1f941.pngmultiple-musical-notes_1f3b6.pngkisspng-emojipedia-whatsapp-peace-symbols-text-messaging-5af2ba93ab48a4.1265377915258569157016.jpgSparkling_Pink_Heart_Emoji_large.pngOctopus_Emoji_large.png262e.png

6 April 2019
8.45am
Wigwam
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1876
Member Since:
17 October 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1237sp_Permalink sp_Print

Thailand has a large trans population. Without being asked to when I’m in conversation with a jadyboy I will use feminine terms..... this comes naturally and without thought and is I think appreciated.

But if you ask me logically to categorize whether a ladyboy is male or female there’s no doubt in my mind she is a he.

ladyboys can be stunning and affect feminine graces,,,, but they never.......er... pull it off. Not quite.

Treat people with respect....Be accepting of each other.... But that goes for me as well. Rude demands get nowhere when applied to me. 

The following people thank Wigwam for this post:

Beatlebug, QuarryMan
6 April 2019
9.38pm
Avatar
Beatlebug
Find me where ye echo lays
Moderator

Moderators
Forum Posts: 15320
Member Since:
15 February 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

The 'transracial' thing is nonsense and is not at all equivalent to transgender people, who are just doing their best to live with a debilitating mental illness?/condition?/whatever you want to call it.

I believe in respecting the preferred pronouns of trans people if they don't prove themselves not to deserve it (ugh - double negatives! What I mean is, a person is automatically worthy of respect unless they prove otherwise). My brain is automatically going to categorise you by your secondary sex characteristics/appearance anyway, and I'll just go with whatever seems natural. I'll make an effort to use a certain pronoun if someone explicitly requests, unless they're a jerk about it/it's some neopronoun no one's ever heard of. (Sorry. Just can't do it. I'll call you 'they' instead.) On the Internet or whatever I'll fall back on 'they' -- it's grammatically imperfect, but it's the best we have in the English language for when someone's gender is unspecified mccartney-shrug_01_gif

I respect Ben Shapiro on a lot of points, but his pronoun argument is rubbish. a-hard-days-night-ringo-13 You can acknowledge the biological reality of, say, a trans man being biologically female in some senses whilst also acknowledging him as a man in the social/psychological sense and, if he's medically transitioned, other biological senses. It's not black and white. a-hard-days-night-paul-7

The following people thank Beatlebug for this post:

Getbackintheussr, QuarryMan

It verges from the sublime to the ridiculote

Silly-Girl-2016.png Silly-Girl-2017.png bbbadge2018.jpg

New to Forumpool? You can introduce yourself here

6 April 2019
9.55pm
Avatar
Beatlebug
Find me where ye echo lays
Moderator

Moderators
Forum Posts: 15320
Member Since:
15 February 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1239sp_Permalink sp_Print

Also find it ironic that Wigwam assumed QuarryMan was a girl (maybe partly because of Björk in his avatar there?) even though his username is QuarryMan a-hard-days-night-john-6

Which reminds me, @QuarryMan I noticed you referred to me as 'they' a while back, why? I'm pretty pronoun-apathetic but I think it's also been made pretty clear that I'm female (albeit a not very feminine female who occasionally is mistaken for a boy IRL), based on my history around here... so I was just curious. mccartney-shrug_01_gif

It verges from the sublime to the ridiculote

Silly-Girl-2016.png Silly-Girl-2017.png bbbadge2018.jpg

New to Forumpool? You can introduce yourself here

6 April 2019
10.04pm
Avatar
Starr Shine?
Waiting in the sky
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 15584
Member Since:
1 November 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1240sp_Permalink sp_Print

They is good though I make mistakes on pronouns.

https://youtu.be/52nwiTs7bk8

Brainwashed by RadiantCowbells.

If you can't log in and can't use the forum go here and someone will help you out.

Forum Timezone: America/Chicago
Most Users Ever Online: 700
Currently Online: freid
1
Guest(s)
Top Posters:
Starr Shine?: 15584
Ron Nasty: 9798
Necko: 7856
50yearslate: 7575
parlance: 7111
mr. Sun king coming together: 6403
AppleScruffJunior: 6391
Mr. Kite: 6147
trcanberra: 6063
mithveaen: 4621
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 87
Members: 2733
Moderators: 6
Admins: 2
Forum Stats:
Groups: 3
Forums: 44
Topics: 4772
Posts: 329235
Newest Members:
SirJamesPaulMcCartney, Bohaind, aNowhereMan, osteo, NDDPM
Moderators: Joe: 5062, Zig: 9807, meanmistermustard: 22279, Ahhh Girl: 18440, Beatlebug: 15320, The Hole Got Fixed: 6995
Administrators: Joe: 5062, Ellie: 4