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Philosophy
21 February 2019
5.49am
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Dark Overlord
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@Ron Nasty Thanks for joining in.

On the topic of compulsory voting, i don't like the idea of forcing people to vote and there seems to be no good reason to enforce such a law, especially here in the US where if the Republican doesn't win, then the Democrat will.

I think a better solution would be for a 3rd party to get 1 vote for every person who didn't vote, so if 300,000 people didn't vote, the Libertarian party would get 100,000 votes, the Green party would get 100,000 votes, and the Independent party would get 100,000 votes.

This would be much more fair since those who don't vote often do so because they don't like either of the 2 main parties, would encourage people to vote if they didn't want their vote to immediately go to a party they don't care about, would make not voting matter just as much as voting itself since you're vote is going to someone regardless, and would give 3rd parties more representation.

BTW @The Hole Got Fixed Ron Nasty didn't disprove our point, he only proved that there are exceptions to the rule.

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21 February 2019
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Ron Nasty
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I would just make this point on compulsory voting, @Dark Overlord, it doesn't actually force you to vote for anyone. What it does do is force you to visit the polling station you're registered at and put a ballot paper in the box, or whatever other system is used. If you don't want to vote for anyone, you just spoil your ballot, which can be done with even electronic voting systems.

The point of compulsory voting is to make people think about what they're going to do. Yes, you would get more spoiled ballots from those who really didn't want to participate, but you would also get many who currently choose not to take part thinking that, if they have to visit the polling station they might as well choose between the different offers being made by the politicians.

The big curse of elections in the Western democracies at the moment is the disengagement of people who take it for granted. If you get people to actually think about how taking part in elections - even if it's just a spoilt ballot - is an important part of being a citizen, the chances are that you get more people making a positive contribution just because they have to do something on the day of the vote instead of just ignoring it because they can't be arsed to go to their polling station.

Australia, for instance, has compulsory voting, and has since 1924. It's voter turnout has never dropped below 91%. In the UK, where we do not have a compulsory vote, it rarely goes above 65%, while in the US - in a Presidential election year - you're down to around 60% taking part, and in midterms you'll often drop to around 40% (the 2014 midterms saw a turnout of 36.7% of the electorate).

When you let the percentages taking part drop that low you are more likely to have a very left or very right-wing party or candidate getting in, not because they have majority support but because the majority just couldn't be bothered.

That way disaster lies ahead with extremes holding the political levers.

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21 February 2019
10.46am
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Beatlebug
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I think public education is an important aspect as well. I don't know about y'all, but it seems to me that we do a pretty poor job in America of teaching our citizens about the way our country works and why we should care. To be a citizen of a democratic republic is a responsibility and a privilege, and it's easy for a lot of people to take that for granted.

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21 February 2019
12.36pm
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QuarryMan
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I think compulsory voting is a step countries may have to take to preserve democracy at some point down the line, but before that is introduced then there should be an education programme introduced in schools about politics and different ideologies, so that people have some idea what the different parties are standing for. This would also help people realise how politics affects their everyday life, since too many people take stability for granted and act as if it has no impact on them.

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21 February 2019
2.34pm
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AppleScruffJunior
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I don't have a particular attachment to any Irish political party. There's a popular photo that makes the rounds every few months of Ireland's politics.

Image Enlarger

The only ones that have any power are the top 4 and Fianna Fáil are corrupt, Fine Gael tries to act 'woke' but are the same as Fianna Fáil behind closed curtains, Labour is practically dead, and Sinn Féin are terrorists who are the one party that I would never ever vote for.

 

The geniuses of SF tried to collapse our government yesterday by trying to get a no-confidence vote against our Minister for Health. Now our MfH is doing a terrible job (the current Irish controversy is our new national children's hospital which should have cost €650 million now looking to be minimum €1.4 billion). That along with the cervical cancer crisis, it hasn't been a good time for Minister Harris. Everyone knows the Irish MfH job is a curse as the Irish health system is a wreck and will continue to be a wreck until a lot of useless office staff are fired (which will never happen) so whoever is the current MfH always gets berated and it helps prematurely end your political career.

Anyhoo, SF's no-confidence vote didn't work which was good but they seem to have forgotten that Brexit is meant to come up next month and if Ireland had a collapsed government that would be the stupidest thing to have ever happened in Irish politics. 

Once again for any SF voters, SF caring more about their own image and lust for power over the interests of the nation. 

 

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21 February 2019
6.58pm
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Dark Overlord
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I feel the same way about compulsory voting as i do about banning plastic straws. While it may be better for society, enforcing such laws would be denying people freedom.

I best fit with the Libertarian party, although i disagree with them on a few issues, mainly gun control.

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21 February 2019
9.53pm
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Ron Nasty said
I've generally gone for the general principle, @50yearslate, that I don't support a political party but vote for the one that supports me.

Means I'll vote, and I'll always vote, for the party I disagree with least and agree with most based on that election's offering.

It's not important to have a political party, it's always important to take part in the process and vote though. Not only have people around the world and throughout history died for the right to vote, but you're also more likely to find yourself with a Government doing things you totally disagree with and hate if you choose not to take part in the process.

I hate those who don't vote and spend the next few years complaining about what their Government's up to. I'm quite a fan of enforced compulsory voting as too often it's the can't-be-bothered's who dictate an election's result.

  

Yes, I agree completely. Well said. apple01

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22 February 2019
6.13pm
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50yearslate
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Here's a topic which is smaller but could still lead to interesting discussion; what do you guys think about animal showmanship?

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22 February 2019
8.18pm
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Dark Overlord
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While i'm not typically a fan of wild animals in captivity, i think it's great that these trainers get along with their pets so much and can teach them to do great things like having gorillas communicating with sign language. However, i do have a problem with animal showmanship.

Since it's not family friendly, i will keep it in spoilers:

Some people will use animals like this as a reason to justify bestiality, ignoring that even the smartest non-human animals are only as smart as an elementary school student and are therefore incapable of giving sexual consent.

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22 February 2019
8.41pm
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Timothy
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At work my colleague said they liked going to funerals to appreciate life. I said don’t do that. They asked why. To which I said if the deceased person was alive, they wouldn’t be attending a funeral. They’d be out there living their own life like us. So if you really want to honour the dead, live your life. 

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22 February 2019
8.43pm
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Dark Overlord said
While i'm not typically a fan of wild animals in captivity, i think it's great that these trainers get along with their pets so much and can teach them to do great things like having gorillas communicating with sign language. However, i do have a problem with animal showmanship.

Since it's not family friendly, i will keep it in spoilers:


Some people will use animals like this as a reason to justify bestiality, ignoring that even the smartest non-human animals are only as smart as an elementary school student and are therefore incapable of giving sexual consent.


  

I'm confused... what does bestiality have to do with animal showmanship?!?

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23 February 2019
5.06am
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Dark Overlord
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People will look at the showmanship animals and suggest that because they can do all this stuff, they can give sexual consent, which isn't true but that's what they think.

It's not really an example of animal showmanship but rather a concern i have related to it.

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23 February 2019
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Beatlebug
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Timothy said
At work my colleague said they liked going to funerals to appreciate life. I said don’t do that. They asked why. To which I said if the deceased person was alive, they wouldn’t be attending a funeral. They’d be out there living their own life like us. So if you really want to honour the dead, live your life.   

I go to funerals to support the people who are alive. That's the whole point of funerals anyway. It's really not about the dead person but rather the grief of the person's family/friends. mccartney-shrug_01_gif

Animal showmanship: don't really know a whole lot about it but if it's done humanely (obviously no bestiality or general abuse) I guess I don't have a problem with it.

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23 February 2019
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Dark Overlord said
People will look at the showmanship animals and suggest that because they can do all this stuff, they can give sexual consent, which isn't true but that's what they think.

It's not really an example of animal showmanship but rather a concern i have related to it.

  

Huh, I've never heard of that happening. That's terrible though. 

Beatlebug said

Timothy said

At work my colleague said they liked going to funerals to appreciate life. I said don’t do that. They asked why. To which I said if the deceased person was alive, they wouldn’t be attending a funeral. They’d be out there living their own life like us. So if you really want to honour the dead, live your life.   

I go to funerals to support the people who are alive. That's the whole point of funerals anyway. It's really not about the dead person but rather the grief of the person's family/friends. mccartney-shrug_01_gif

I agree. Funerals are for the living.

Animal showmanship: don't really know a whole lot about it but if it's done humanely (obviously no bestiality or general abuse) I guess I don't have a problem with it.

I agree. 

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7 March 2019
4.43pm
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Dark Overlord
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What are your thoughts on anarchy. I think it's the best out of the 4 systems (the other 3 being communism, fascism, and capitalism) since the lack of hierarchies means there's no chance for a leader to abuse their power. Some will say that people will abuse this much freedom but there's an anarchist town in California called Slab City and this doesn't appear to be the case there so it's possible that this won't be a problem.

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7 March 2019
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Beatlebug
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No.

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7 March 2019
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I've heard of Slab City. Anarchy might work in a really tiny environment like that, maybe, but on a larger scale I doubt it. Also, the people in Slab City are there by choice, so that probably makes a difference.

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7 March 2019
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Beatlebug said
No.

Why?

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7 March 2019
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Dark Overlord said
What are your thoughts on anarchy. I think it's the best out of the 4 systems (the other 3 being communism, fascism, and capitalism) since the lack of hierarchies means there's no chance for a leader to abuse their power. Some will say that people will abuse this much freedom but there's an anarchist town in California called Slab City and this doesn't appear to be the case there so it's possible that this won't be a problem.

  

No thanks.

The anarchy I believe you're describing would be an extreme form of libertarian capitalism, so no. That would mean every industry could easily be taken over by huge corporations, who would form monopolies through exploiting their workers in the name of efficiency, therefore allowing them to overtake other businesses and control the whole industry. Plus, since there would be no government to regulate them, they could get away with paying starvation wages, allowing horrendous working conditions, proving a poor value service and there would be nothing to stop them polluting the environment further. This stuff already happens in the social democracies that make up the Western world and is barely stopped by what regulation there is. It would be ten times worse with no government at all. 

People often say that communism has failed every time it has been tried (I would argue it has never been tried, but that's a different point). Consider this - anarchism in the post-industrial Revolution would be so terrible that it has never been tried. 

Slab City has no electricity, running water, sewers, proper toilets or trash collection service. It's hardly a model society. 

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7 March 2019
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I say
people will abuse this much freedom

and that's really all the thoughts I have on the subject, it's not something I've studied. Basically, I just don't like extremes.

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