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Philosophy
8 January 2019
1.46pm
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50yearslate
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a-hard-days-night-ringo-8Thank thank thank thank thank

(I'm doing the best that I can...)

edit: okay why is it that whenever I use a pointing Ringo smiley, my post is the first one on the next page? paul-mccartney-facepalm_gifpaul-mccartney-facepalm_gifpaul-mccartney-facepalm_gif

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8 January 2019
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Dark Overlord
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QuarryMan said
The reason why it's called feminism and not humanism, is because it's always been women's rights that have been far behind those of men in the past.

But women have caught up and in some cases are doing better than men, such as in school.

As for women not being oppressed, hasn't all the MeToo movement over the past couple years shown that there are still entire industries where women are objectified and coerced into sexual favours in exchange for career advancement from rich and powerful men?

I agree with most of that.

However, as far as objectified goes, women sometimes choose to be objectified and we should give them the choice to do so.

Women have just about got equal rights legally in most modern countries, but that doesn't necessarily prevent oppression less obvious to the naked eye.

Oppression is a strong word IMO that should be used to describe things like slavery or corrupt leaders who will have you executed if he doesn't like you, IMO using it to describe little (in comparison) things like the ones feminists talk about, it belittles things like the holocaust.

I do agree that more focus needs to be on helping Islamic women, as they are certainly in a much worse situation than most women living in the developed world, but we must be very careful that this doesn't lead to hatred against Islamic people themselves. Personally, I feel that all of the Abrahamic religions are outdated and problematic at this point, but the problems need to be addressed rationally rather than the rampart hatred that seems to be the tactic of a lot of people.

I couldn't agree more. What i like to point out when criticizing Sharia law without criticizing Islam is that most Muslims don't support Sharia law, this way i'm able to make clear both that Sharia law needs to go and that most Muslims are good people.

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8 January 2019
2.50pm
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AppleScruffJunior
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Feminism= good

When all men learn not to treat a woman walking down the street alone as some kind of object he can holler and whistle at, then I'll be a happy girl.

 

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8 January 2019
3.43pm
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The Hole Got Fixed
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DO has already quizzed me extensively on this issue away from the forum so he knows my views. For the rest of the forum:

Absolutely I'm a feminist, and will be until men get off their pedestal and release women more than deserve to be treated rationally and equally. Yes the tides are slowly starting to turn, but even if the government legislated it (hell, even here in Australia we still had a tax on tampons until 9 days ago!) we have to realise people don't always do what the government tells it to do, and often find loopholes. 

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8 January 2019
4.09pm
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50yearslate
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Dark Overlord said

 

Women have just about got equal rights legally in most modern countries, but that doesn't necessarily prevent oppression less obvious to the naked eye.

Oppression is a strong word IMO that should be used to describe things like slavery or corrupt leaders who will have you executed if he doesn't like you, IMO using it to describe little (in comparison) things like the ones feminists talk about, it belittles things like the holocaust.

Well but those are extremes. I don't think it's fair to say "Oh, this woman has been abused and objectified and treated as inferior to men, but she's never been a slave or experienced the Holocaust, so really she doesn't have any problems at all and she should be happy the way she is." I want to be clear that I am not at all trying to belittle such huge issues, but just because somebody has problems on a lesser level doesn't mean those problems aren't still significant.

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8 January 2019
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Dark Overlord
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disagree that the government should legislate equality since that often leads to misandry, especially considering how some feminists pretend that sexual dimorphism doesn't exist.

A perfect example of this is when people try to make quotas to get more women in male dominated fields like tech, despite most women being uninterested in these fields and therefore men miss job opportunities solely because of their gender because employers are afraid to hire him in fear of getting sued.

Anyways, great post, i'd thank it if i could.

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8 January 2019
4.37pm
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Dark Overlord
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50yearslate said
Well but those are extremes. I don't think it's fair to say "Oh, this woman has been abused and objectified and treated as inferior to men, but she's never been a slave or experienced the Holocaust, so really she doesn't have any problems at all and she should be happy the way she is." I want to be clear that I am not at all trying to belittle such huge issues, but just because somebody has problems on a lesser level doesn't mean those problems aren't still significant.  

They are but that's because i see oppression as a strong word and i don't like the idea of getting catcalled and being toyed with by the Angel Of Death being labelled under the same word. That's not to say i condone mistreatment of women, i strongly oppose the mistreatment of women, but i prefer the term discrimination.

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8 January 2019
4.52pm
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The Hole Got Fixed
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Dark Overlord said

A perfect example of this is when people try to make quotas to get more women in male dominated fields like tech, despite most women being uninterested in these fields and therefore men miss job opportunities solely because of their gender because employers are afraid to hire him in fear of getting sued.

How do you know? Have you asked them? How do you know that it's not because it's such a male dominated field that they can't break through, lose interest, and go somewhere else?

In the computing class of my year level last year (I wasn't in it but I walked past a number of times) there was probably a 60/40 split of male/female. Bearing in mind that it's an elective, so that means that I wouldn't say they're uninterested but taking it anyway. 

Oh, by the way, this post was made by The Hole Got Fixed!

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8 January 2019
5.42pm
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Dark Overlord
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There are biological differences between men and women, women are biologically programmed to be mothers and therefore typically prefer to work with children, animals, and other people in need. This is why women dominate fields like teacher, babysitter, therapist, nurse, and veterinarian whereas men dominate when it comes to more hands on fields like construction, tech, military, police, and sports. While there certainly are male babysitters and tech workers and there's nothing wrong with that, they're the minority.

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8 January 2019
6.01pm
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50yearslate
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a-hard-days-night-ringo-8Is it biology? Or is it hundreds of years of people dividing jobs into "women's work" and "men's work?" Many girls have been conditioned to believe that they have no chance of a career in a male-dominated field because of these prejudices. 

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8 January 2019
7.32pm
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Dark Overlord
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To be honest, it's probably a solid mix of both.

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8 January 2019
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My son's pretty smart....get's it from his mum.

For the maths degree he's doing, and for other STEM degrees in Australia......girl's are advantaged over boys. In two ways... They can apply with lower high school scores and qualify for a scholarship with a much lower score than a boy.

My son accepts this is the way things are......Because it is.

White and Asian boys have the deck stacked against them.

I feel engineering of outcomes is wrong......Equality of opportunity is right.

8 January 2019
8.04pm
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Dark Overlord said
There are biological differences between men and women, women are biologically programmed to be mothers and therefore typically prefer to work with children, animals, and other people in need. This is why women dominate fields like teacher, babysitter, therapist, nurse, and veterinarian whereas men dominate when it comes to more hands on fields like construction, tech, military, police, and sports. While there certainly are male babysitters and tech workers and there's nothing wrong with that, they're the minority.  

Replace biological with social. If you look at social groups from around the world, different women would do different sorts of jobs.  Some cultures, men would basket weave while woman would basket weave in others.

 

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8 January 2019
8.07pm
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50yearslate
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Wigwam said

I feel engineering of outcomes is wrong......Equality of opportunity is right.  

I agree. It would be nice if gender didn't play a role at all when applying to schools/jobs. When I started high school I applied for this leadership program they have, only to be rejected because too many girls applied and not enough boys, and they wanted to make the program "equal." They seem to have a different idea of "equal" than I do. ahdn_paul_01

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8 January 2019
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Dark Overlord
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Wigwam, i agree since we've exited the realms of equality and now it's misandry.

Starr Shine? good point, there are certainly cultural differences when it comes to gender, with some cultures even having a matriarchy.

50yearslate, i never realized these bullshit quotas also affected females, i'm sorry to hear about that.

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8 January 2019
8.35pm
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Starr Shine?
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I don't think it is misandry at this stage. Not when things like the tampon tax still exist.

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8 January 2019
8.49pm
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Dark Overlord
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But i don't think that's the way to go. I'd rather we just put tampons, birth control, and condoms in every public restroom, then the problem would be solved without having to make up for it with equity.

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8 January 2019
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I don't think condoms are on the same level as tampons imo.

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8 January 2019
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Starr Shine? said
I don't think condoms are on the same level as tampons imo.  

true, you only need condoms if you're having sex, you need tampons/other supplies because of a bodily function that happens without anyone deciding it.

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8 January 2019
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Dark Overlord said
But i don't think that's the way to go. I'd rather we just put tampons, birth control, and condoms in every public restroom, then the problem would be solved without having to make up for it with equity.  

1: what about the people who live 2 hours drive from the nearest public restroom?

2: equity by definition (unless you're a facist) is better than equality.

Image result for equity equality boxesImage Enlarger

3: this is sounding awfully like that moment on 30 December when this happened:

AppleScruffJunior said

Not to insult you DO but that is such an American response "but my freedom!!!".

Man hears that woman want more freedom. His response: 'but that means my freedom will be impeded on!'

You have to realise DO that in almost all other Western countries that your attitude is far less common, so we can't work out your point of view. In most Western countries, more people are feminist because they don't care about 'my freedom', they care about everyone. That's my take on it, anyway.

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