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Most overrated Band ever?
4 April 2020
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Jules
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vonbontee said

...not that it wasn't an interesting read! And I agree that the RYM "best ever" rankings are heavily skewed towards recentisms. (There's no way in hell that "Aeroplane Over The Sea" is the eleventh greatest album of allfucking time.) But I was born in the '60s like Clerefor's father, so I understand the resistance to newer sounds...

Yeah, technically the highest rated album over a thousand votes is Mingus's The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady with 4.34 stars, but in the overall list it appears on #41. Not that it is my favourite album but it could take the place instead of OK Computer, that has a lower rating.

vonbontee said
Which 70s band is the equivalent of Coldplay? Hm...The Alan Parsons Project? 

Yes yes. Had to look it up but you nailed it

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4 April 2020
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Clerefor Sede said 

There are bands that I hate, generally not bands like fucking The Shaggs or something like that, but bands like GVF (which I find nauseatingly unoriginal)

I dunno, I kind of like GVF. I mean, I don't love them, but they've got some nice songs, and I've seen them play live and they're pretty good. Don't get me wrong, I get your point, but sometimes I just don't understand why so many hate them to the degree that they do. I honestly don't even bring up that I like them because I'm afraid people will ridicule me for it sometimes.

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4 April 2020
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Jules
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I dunno, I kind of like GVF. I mean, I don't love them, but they've got some nice songs, and I've seen them play live and they're pretty good. Don't get me wrong, I get your point, but sometimes I just don't understand why so many hate them to the degree that they do. I honestly don't even bring up that I like them because I'm afraid people will ridicule me for it sometimes.

I get you. It's just that the people that defend Greta Van Fleet from the accusations that they are an uncomfortable rip-off vibe will go to the extent of saying that "Led Zeppelin stole, so it shouldn't be a problem that Greta steals", when it's nothing like that. That kind of comment eliminates any type of context to the situation. Zeppelin, if they happened to steal a riff or chord progression, they would improve it, and polish it, and make it different and fantastic. Greta seems that they are only imitating the part of the "stealing", and not the part of "recontextualization", "innovation", and just having a style of their own in general.

And the fact they denied it and accepted it in the past, seems like they are only starting to realize they have a hot potato on their hands. And it'll blow up and they will fade into obscurity, because who in the next few decades is gonna want to hear a lesser version of Led Zeppelin instead of the actual gods of rock that inspired those cutely bland imitations of their work? And the other option for them is to start changing, and remember the past as "that dark Zeppelin era", but the real question is: are they capable of changing? If you judge by their imitation of Zeppelin... I don't think so. I don't think they are talented enough or creative enough to make something by theirselves before they fade. Greta to me is just a waiting room until they change or disappear, but it's been three years since they've started and they still sound the freaking same. No band has got such a slow self-discovering process. GVF in general feels just like a stolen self-discovery process in the attempt on not ever have to try and fail in be theirselves.

That being said... Nobody should shame you for the tastes that you hold, or laugh at them, or try and humiliate you because of them. That's just disrespectful and overall being a jerk. If there's an argument on the music alone, I'm no longer with you, I have problems with Greta, but people shouldn't jump to attack you personally just because they don't have the same opinion as you. Keep in mind anyone who does that is not worth paying attention to.

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4 April 2020
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I agree with those sentiments about Greta Van Fleet. I don’t think that they’re overrated because they do get ragged on a lot for being a second string Led Zeppelin, which they deserve. Still, its hard to find a combinated of guys who can rock that hard, unoriginal or not, rock star voices don’t seem to go out of style.

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4 April 2020
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To me the difference between Led Zeppelin and Greta Van Fleet is that while both are guilty of plagiarism, at least Led Zeppelin were innovative in what they did. They took old, largely acoustic blues and folk songs, and then electrified them, practically helping invent an entire genre in the process, and influencing hundreds of music to come after them. GVF, on the other hand, aren't doing anything new or original with the sound, they're just taking the formula and replicating it. If people want to hear more music that fills that exact niche, I can't begrudge them it, but as a whole it just seems artistically pointless. The fact that they're being praised so much is just depressing, not because it signals that rock is dead, but rather that rock audiences are totally blind to all the wonderful other music being made right now in the genre, and would rather just leap onto anything that sates their nostalgia.

I don't think originality is the be-all-end-all of music. Some of my favourite artists have basically built their career off borrowing other ideas (LCD Soundsystem being one), but at least they generally repurpose the ideas and put them in new contexts, or at the very least (like in the case of Carly Rae Jepsen, one of my favourite pop artists) take the formula and just absolutely nail it down to the finest details. GVF just feel like a pointless ripoff to me.

On the subject of RateYourMusic, I would disagree with the idea that the rankings are biased towards any particular time period, since in the top twenty you can see albums from every decade from the 50s onwards (excluding the 2020s, of course). Instead, I would say that they are largely biased towards music that is perceived as serious and intellectual. I do think the demographics of online music communities, which have historically been largely white, straight and male, are depriving themselves of a lot of fun and enjoyable music due to this sensibility of largely ignoring other genres like pop and disco, particularly ones with significant contributions from women, people of colour and queer people. I don't know, I'm talking in generalisations here and I don't want to offend anyone, but this is just my impressions having been an active member of such communities for a few years now. Things are changing for the better, and I've seen a change in attitudes where music is no longer overlooked due to not being seen as serious enough, but this tends to vary across platforms. I find it's best on Facebook, where music communities tend to be more open and welcoming, whereas other sites like RYM have this very stuffy attitude among the membership.

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4 April 2020
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But see, the thing is that older music fans, like I'm talking ones like myself and older, weren't raised with the internet, and are far less likely to go to sites like RYM to catalogue and rate the music they grew up with. And the result is that older albums are overlooked, just because many of the people who bought 'em originally are old or dead! Like, it's crazy that Iron Butterfly's 'In A Gadda Da Vida", for example, sold millions of copies over the last 50 years, and has 3413 ratings on RYM; whereas GYBE! have probably never sold more than 100,000 copies of "Lift Yr. Skinny Fists" (14th-best-reviewed album), but a full 27,000 of them have taken the time to give the album a rating! Basically, music fans and record collectors who either came of age with the rise of the internet and RYM (Gen X) or the millenials who have known it all their life are far more likely to sit at their laptop and rate, catalog, review their albums. Like, CCR was one of the finest, most loved rock & roll bands in history for many years, a super singles band that also made great albums, sold in the millions and still have a popular presence (thanks to "Big Lebowski" and other factors), but only average about 4500 reviews per album because many of the boomers who bought their albums are now dead, or golfing in Florida, or most likely doing anything at all besides rating albums on RYM.

And yeah, certain select albums from the '50s do show up occasionally, and yeah I know that rocknroll longplayers weren't necessarily known for their quality control before the Beatles forced everyone to start upping their game. But jazzwise, it's always the same three or four overpraised albums (Love Supreme, Kind of Blue, Black Saint/Sinner Lady and maybe In A Silent Way sneaks in there sometimes), so that bugs me too...

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4 April 2020
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@vonbontee

To be fair, 2,000 to 4,000 votes is not a low number of votes. If the most rated album has 50,000, that means it's a 4% to 8% of the most voted album of all time. I would say is a decent number. Albums with less than a thousand votes start to be less recognizable.

Also don't you mess with In a Silent Way on my watch a-hard-days-night-ringo-15a-hard-days-night-ringo-15

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4 April 2020
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Wouldn't dream of it, I love IASW, and the quiet electric sound of that particular band (tho I wish Tony Williams wasn't so restrained; it was his last session with Miles and he was anxious to leave and form Lifetime)

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QuarryMan said
To me the difference between Led Zeppelin and Greta Van Fleet is that while both are guilty of plagiarism, at least Led Zeppelin were innovative in what they did. They took old, largely acoustic blues and folk songs, and then electrified them, practically helping invent an entire genre in the process, and influencing hundreds of music to come after them.

Not to mention that the musical landscape under which Zeppelin forged their inspiration and style is very different from Greta's, and the way of acting on it means a big deal. What I mean is how can you accuse Led Zeppelin of stealing as if it was this unforgivable crime, when Robert Plant and Jimmy Page had a strong bonding with the African-American world of BLUES? Folk and blues during the 50s and 60s, and any artist related to that lineup (Howlin' Wolf, Fats Domino, B.B. King, Robert Johnson), they all "stole" music. The difference is there was such a carefree attitude towards songwriting within the genre (mostly attributed to rejection from white labels), that most songs were just slight variations on older songs, and the original source was never attributed because among fans and artist was it either from the Chicago scene, or Mississippi or New York, they all just played either this old, author-less music, or variations of songs from their fellow contemporary composers. It's kind of like opera: in the immense world of opera, the singers don't try to sound understandable, because all of the spectators know the scripts already. My point is blues fans during the 50s knew their shit. Blues had such a strong following that compositions were no longer a matter, everybody knew who the original was, either that or it was considered a "lost song" or an "ancient folk tune". Page and Plant were among those spectators.

Led Zeppelin was formed under that mindset. They didn't care about copyright, and labels, and credit, they just wanted to play blues and rock and roll like their idols. Where did their idols get their music? Other musicians. So Zeppelin was just playing by the only rules they knew. And they did it better than anybody: in the generation of black musicians that invented rock and roll, a good artists was considered good by how much he could add to the compositions he borrowed. Only with Buddy Holly and Chuck Berry is when original compositions started to be the norm. Zeppelin was just a little behind on that. But LZ were the best at grabbing songs and making them their own, transforming them into their own gritty, powerful rawness of an aesthetic.

Like, if you think Led Zeppelin cheated their way to success, then try making Led Zeppelin I & II out of the original sources. It is the way they assembled what they borrowed what made them so unique in the first place. Nowadays it would be the exact equivalent of sampling.

For example, people accused them from stealing Babe I'm Gonna Leave You from Joan Baez, when it wasn't even hers, it was an older folk song (Wikipedia says "written by Anne Bredon in the late 1950s", whoever she was). So to both Baez and Zeppelin the song was just... like free of use. The music they imitated would the equivalent of me remixing a christmas carol and people accusing me of plagirizing. I'm not saying all of those tuns were author-less, and I'm not saying they shouldn't have given credit. My point is I excuse them because they didn't do it out of evil, they did it because is how they were taught, and they just were late to catch up to the 70s, were everything was owned by labels, and stealing a riff was a crime punishable by death. They were just ignorant of the rules, that's all. And they did catch up eventually; Physical Graffiti and Houses of the Holy are pure original compositions, you can't find any pseudo "rip off" on those two albums (in my opinion, their best two as well).

Greta Van Fleet seems like the result of knowing you don't have to steal, and doing it anyway, trying to follow 1950s rules sixty years later, and not even following them right. They have the whole textbook backwards. If Greta truly wanted to be like Zeppelin, they should borrow melodies and change the sound, not borrow the sound and change the melody. That to me completely demolished any possibility of being particular. And GVF's lyrics are painfully wannabe Plant, that's another thing that bugs me about them. Like, you could make a Led Zeppelin rip-off but still add it new things like a space aesthetic ala David Bowie or Spiritualized, or you could turn mix it with that old circus vibe, Sgt. Pepper , Frank Zappa. But their lyrics just have the same topics and Zeppelin-isms, you know, Greek and Nordic mythology, apocalyptic erotism, Tolkien, and all of this qualities that were purely born from Plant's personal interests, and the boys on Greta are desperately trying to imitate.

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4 April 2020
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QuarryMan said

Dingle Lad said

Radiohead, without debate.

Are Radiohead a fantastic band worthy of a huge amount of praise? Yes. Are they deserving of quite the degree of adulation their fanbase awards them? No.

I don't agree with you unless combining the worst points of U2 and Pink Floyd is "worthy of a huge amount of praise". They're as boring as watching wallpaper. Then you go on to prove my point almost backhandedly, so thanks.

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4 April 2020
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Dingle Lad said [Pink Floyd] are as boring as watching wallpaper.

Okay, let's everybody just calm the fuck down.

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sir walter raleigh said
I agree with those sentiments about Greta Van Fleet. I don’t think that they’re overrated because they do get ragged on a lot for being a second string Led Zeppelin, which they deserve. Still, its hard to find a combinated of guys who can rock that hard, unoriginal or not, rock star voices don’t seem to go out of style.

Greta Van Fleet have a cool name. The singer sounds more like the singer from Budgie than he does Robert Plant and adding something new into their mix would destroy the point. Do I like them that much? No, not really. They grew up not far from where I lived most of my life. I can name quite a few musicians in their age group in the general area who are better musicians (especially drummers). They kind of remind me of Kid Rock in that they're a bunch of rich kids who don't have a clue about what anything is about, but had parental backing which was a huge help.

But if they lead even one person to listen to Led Zeppelin they've done their job.

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Clerefor Sede said

Dingle Lad said

[Pink Floyd] are as boring as watching wallpaper.

Okay, let's everybody just calm the fuck down

Bruh.

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Jk, everyone's entitled to their opinions of course.....even if they're wrong, it's America Forumpool-- you have the freedom to be wrong a-hard-days-night-george-10

But anyhoo, Pink Floyd is magical and yeah some instrumentals and parts of songs may drag on a little and things may get pretty lengthy but that's all apart of the experience. Comparing it to watching wallpaper is a huge stretch, in my opinion.

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4 April 2020
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Sometimes wallpaper is exactly what it takes to complete your living space

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Dark Overlord said
I hope i don't get hate for this but i think that AC/DC is overrated. Let's be honest here, all of their songs sound the same.

No, it's variations on a theme.

GEORGE: In fact, The Detroit Sound. JOHN: In fact, yes. GEORGE: In fact, yeah. Tamla-Motown artists are our favorites. The Miracles. JOHN: We like Marvin Gaye. GEORGE: The Impressions, Marvin Gaye. PAUL & GEORGE: Mary Wells. GEORGE: The Exciters. RINGO: Chuck Jackson. JOHN: To name but eighty.

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Feel free to call Pink Floyd overrated, you're not gonna get any support over here. The reason Radiohead and U2 piss me off to no end is because people won't stop comparing them to The Beatles or Pink Floyd or some other incredible classic band. Don't do that. Stop doing that. I don't want to hear them in the same breath

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5 April 2020
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Dingle Lad said

QuarryMan said

Dingle Lad said

Radiohead, without debate.

Are Radiohead a fantastic band worthy of a huge amount of praise? Yes. Are they deserving of quite the degree of adulation their fanbase awards them? No.

I don't agree with you unless combining the worst points of U2 and Pink Floyd is "worthy of a huge amount of praise". They're as boring as watching wallpaper. Then you go on to prove my point almost backhandedly, so thanks.

Whether they're boring is your opinion, but if you'd listened to their music past OK Computer you'd know they've done a significant amount beyond their influences. Kid A in particular has a lot of different styles on it that don't really sound like anything either of those two bands have done.

lovelyritametermaid said

Jk, everyone's entitled to their opinions of course.....even if they're wrong, it's America-- you have the freedom to be wrong a-hard-days-night-george-10

Uhhhhh, is it America? We're on a British-made forum dedicated to a British band, discussing other British bands with people from Britain, Canada and Argentina paul-mccartney-facepalm_gif

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5 April 2020
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QuarryMan said

Dingle Lad said

QuarryMan said

Dingle Lad said

Radiohead, without debate.

Are Radiohead a fantastic band worthy of a huge amount of praise? Yes. Are they deserving of quite the degree of adulation their fanbase awards them? No.

I don't agree with you unless combining the worst points of U2 and Pink Floyd is "worthy of a huge amount of praise". They're as boring as watching wallpaper. Then you go on to prove my point almost backhandedly, so thanks.

Whether they're boring is your opinion, but if you'd listened to their music past OK Computer you'd know they've done a significant amount beyond their influences. Kid A in particular has a lot of different styles on it that don't really sound like anything either of those two bands have done.

lovelyritametermaid said

Jk, everyone's entitled to their opinions of course.....even if they're wrong, it's America-- you have the freedom to be wrong a-hard-days-night-george-10

Uhhhhh, is it America? We're on a British-made forum dedicated to a British band, discussing other British bands with people from Britain, Canada and Argentina paul-mccartney-facepalm_gif

Wouldn't be unlike America to claim it as their own when they have nothing to do with it.

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5 April 2020
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Actually I bought all of their albums from Kid A on in one fell swoop. Someone convinced me to try and change my mind.  I'm not saying they're garbage. See my signature. With everything going this is the last thing to get upset about.

Are you saying that people from America aren't allowed to have opinions?

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vonbontee said

Dark Overlord said

I hope i don't get hate for this but i think that AC/DC is overrated. Let's be honest here, all of their songs sound the same.

No, it's variations on a theme.

Of course that never worked for John Lee Hooker or Johnny Cash. At their best AC/DC can't be touched for what they do. The problem is that's maybe a third of their catalog. This can be said about anyone.

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