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Most overrated Band ever?
31 December 2018
2.08pm
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Von Bontee
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I like his first few albums best...he's such a huge extramusical icon to so many people that backlash can be magnified into rage (as with Beatles or whoever)

One day, a tape-op got a tape on backwards, he went to play it, and it was all "Neeeradno-undowarrroom" and it was "Wow! Sounds Indian!"
-- Paul McCartney

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31 December 2018
2.09pm
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sir walter raleigh
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50yearslate said

I haven't heard Born In The USA or Born To Run.

Both are great songs.

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1 January 2019
5.08pm
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Elementary Penguin
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I'm not a big fan of The Boss but I do respect him as an artist and as a live performer but to say that he had no other songs besides Born in the USA is rediculous.

And in the end the lunch you take is equal to the lunch you bake.

21 January 2019
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mr. Sun king coming together said
Rush. Sorry Von, but I hate them. Geddy Lee's voice has to be worst then Yoko's. Neil Peart is amazing, but Rush sucks.

I disagree with this one. Admittedly a lot of their songs are unlistenable, but they’ve got some pretty great music such as Afterimage and Mystic Rhythms, and I like the lyrics of The Spirit of Radio. Their album 2112 has a pretty cool message, too.

...

Maximum level of opinion expressed, I’m gonna go back to my corner now...

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Reporter: Beethoven figures in one of your songs. What do you think of Beethoven?
Ringo Starr: He’s great. Especially his poetry.

21 January 2019
10.21am
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50yearslate
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silverhammerYT said

Maximum opinion expressed, I’m gonna go back to my corner now...

Stop saying that!!!!!!!!! You have a lot of interesting things to say and I wanna hear 'em. *blockades corner*

I've only ever heard one Rush song and I wasn't especially impressed. Too screechy.

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21 January 2019
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silverhammerYT
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50yearslate said
I've only ever heard one Rush song and I wasn't especially impressed. Too screechy.

Yeah, in the group’s earlier years Geddy Lee did a lot of that screeching stuff with his voice, which he shouldn’t have done because it damaged his voice pretty badly after a few years. But the good thing is that once he could no longer use his upper range, he began to sing in his lower vocal range which sounds really cool.

Also I feel like Alex’s guitar playing isn’t really recognized as good just because his style is very different from other guitarists. And as for Geddy’s bass playing, it’s pretty impressive at times

And like mr. Sun king coming together said, Neil Peart is really amazing. He’s no Ringo, but he is really talented.

50yearslate said

Stop saying that!!!!!!!!! You have a lot of interesting things to say and I wanna hear ‘em. *blockades corner*

Oh, I suppose. I just usually assume that every citizen of Forumpool would be better off without hearing what I have to say most of the time...

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Reporter: Beethoven figures in one of your songs. What do you think of Beethoven?
Ringo Starr: He’s great. Especially his poetry.

21 January 2019
11.09am
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a-hard-days-night-ringo-8If we all assumed that, no one would ever say anything. I like hearing what you have to say.

As for all those names... I don't know who any of them are, but...

silverhammerYT said

And like mr. Sun king coming together said, Neil Peart is really amazing. He’s no Ringo, but he is really talented.

Damn straight! a-hard-days-night-george-9

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21 January 2019
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vonbontee
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Yes, you should post more, Silver! And I'm not just saying that since your thread revival almost counts as a proxy-reply (8 years after the fact!) from myself to Mr. SKCT (who incidentally showed up here last week!). Nice to see a tiny bit of support.

(Fwiw, I never bought a new Rush album released after 1985, and probably haven't listened to the ones I own since, like, 2012. Geddy Lee's screech was one of their defining aspects, and the band wasn't quite the same to me after it was phased out.)

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21 January 2019
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vonbontee said
Yes, you should post more, Silver!

Silver... yes, yes I like that... Silver, yes, I’ll be sure to put that on my luggage...

vonbontee said

Geddy Lee's screech was one of their defining aspects, and the band wasn't quite the same to me after it was phased out.

Yes, I do agree it was pretty iconic to the sound of the group’s music, and it was quite a shame when he lost the ability to sing in that range, but his lower range is also pretty great. (I cannot believe that Mr. SKCT would say that Geddy’s voice is worse than Yoko Ono’s, that just isn’t true, no offense to him or Yoko though.)

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Reporter: Beethoven figures in one of your songs. What do you think of Beethoven?
Ringo Starr: He’s great. Especially his poetry.

21 January 2019
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50yearslate
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vonbontee said
Yes, you should post more, Silver!

At long last, a nickname for dear @silverhammerYT ! Now you and AG match* a-hard-days-night-george-10

*(I can't believe I said that, who have I become)

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30 March 2020
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Jules
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I haven't read the entire thread but anybody here think Nirvana is a little bit overrated?

I've heard their pretty short discography and it let me very underwhelmed. I really appreciate the capacity in which Curt Cobain expressed himself and his emotional issues in his music, and the cult following and popularity of the band only reflects a reality in the 90s youth even more. But the instrumental aspect of it I always found too dry.

Any Nirvana fans to guide me through?, because I hate that I don't like them and I really want to know what to pay attention to.

The Po-Jama People are boring me to pieces

30 March 2020
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PurplishRain
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Clerefor Sede said
I haven't read the entire thread but anybody hear think Nirvana is a little bit overrated?

I've heard their pretty short discography and it let me very underwhelmed. I really appreciate the capacity in which Curt Cobain expressed himself and his emotional issues in his music, and the cult following and popularity of the band only reflects a reality in the 90s youth even more. But the instrumental aspect of it I always found too dry.

Any Nirvana fans to guide me through?, because I hate that I don't like them and I really want to know what to pay attention to.

It sounds like you've tried but they just didn't click for you, and that's okay! Nirvana (while I love the hell out of them) might not be for everybody.

As far as my opinion on overrated bands/artists. I find Lynyrd Skynyrd to be very overrated. I tried to listen to the debut but I didn't get anything out of it other than Gimme Three Steps which was already the only song by them I liked.

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30 March 2020
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Jules
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It sounds like you've tried but they just didn't click for you, and that's okay! Nirvana (while I love the hell out of them) might not be for everybody.

As far as my opinion on overrated bands/artists. I find Lynyrd Skynyrd to be very overrated. I tried to listen to the debut but I didn't get anything out of it other than Gimme Three Steps which was already the only song by them I liked.

Now that you mention it, Lynyrd Skynyrd is kind of a one trick pony. I've listen to their self-titled ("Pronounced") and I thought it was kind of a meh album. Free Bird is dope tho

About Nirvana, I'll keep trying I guess. Because I'm still very curious as to what clicks for everybody else. I've forced myself to listen to artists until loving them before. I think it's a fun exercise. Of course it doesn't always work out. I still don't get Coltrane mccartney-shrug_01_gif (side note: anybody think Coltrane is overrated?, or is jazz solo musicians too far out? I'll leave it there)

But people should once in a while try to understand why other people like different things.

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30 March 2020
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QuarryMan
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Clerefor Sede said
I haven't read the entire thread but anybody here think Nirvana is a little bit overrated?

I've heard their pretty short discography and it let me very underwhelmed. I really appreciate the capacity in which Curt Cobain expressed himself and his emotional issues in his music, and the cult following and popularity of the band only reflects a reality in the 90s youth even more. But the instrumental aspect of it I always found too dry.

Any Nirvana fans to guide me through?, because I hate that I don't like them and I really want to know what to pay attention to.

I'm not the biggest Nirvana fan (I'd take Pixies over them any day, for one thing) but I think for me a lot of their cult comes from contextual factors. More than anything else, Nirvana ended the eighties. After a decade of hair metal, power ballads and often corny synth-pop, they cut through the bloated, corporate music scene like a knife through butter, and brought punk music to the upper reaches of the Billboard charts, transforming the tastes of a nation of teenagers practically overnight. They also paved the way for countless other bands in the same vein to break through in their wake and achieve enormous commercial success, such as Pearl Jam, Alice in Chains , Soundgarden, Smashing Pumpkins etc. It's kind of like how the Ramones made most of the bloated prog of the mid 70s sound completely irrelevant, except instead of barely scraping into the charts, their biggest album went to number one and sold over thirty million copies.

For these reasons Kurt came to be seen as the voice of his generation, and then when his death came at the age of 27 he was immortalised. Would Nirvana be as admired today if Kurt had lived, and the band had continued into middle age and lost their edge like so many others do? Definitely not to the extent they are now. In my opinion, they're still excellent, but are perhaps somewhat overhyped.

As for the music, as you say their discography is pretty small and as such didn't allow much room for them to branch out or experiment. With that in mind, I think whether or not you like them really comes down to whether or not you like the grunge sound, which seems to be Marmite-like in that you either love it or you hate it. The grunge sound is what they did, so I think the best thing for anyone wishing to get into them is to hear the tracks that represent that sound best. I know you've already heard them, but I think you should pay particular attention to three specific songs: 'You Know You're Right', 'All Apologies', and 'Dumb', which in my opinion represent the best of their music.

Also, if you haven't already seen it, I'd watch this. It's one of my favourite live performances ever, and I think it's just haunting, particularly the look in Kurt's eyes at 4:50.

Edit: Ooh! Just seen that you mentioned Coltrane as well. I'm a pretty big fan of his (in fact, my username on Discord is Coltrane), so I'll definitely write something up about why I like him so much at some point.

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30 March 2020
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@QuarryMan loved that response. You seem to assume I've listen to Nirvana a lot. Like I've heard their discography, backwards, because curiosity took ever me for In Utero. But I don't think I payed them much attention because after the first tracks things start to feel the same and when great tracks appear you don't even notice them, I sometimes leave the music and start doing other things, like cleaning or talking to someone on the phone.

Then I've heard tracks on their own, like YouTube videos and such. So your insight on why you think they're are great and the context you provided me about the possibility of Curt not dying tells me a lot of what to focus on when I revisit their discography. I plan in doing pretty soon.

And it just seems that we are polar opposites. I'm kind of underwhelmed by Coltrane also. I'm one of those that pick Miles over Coltrane. Also, is it possible to start a thread on jazz? because I cannot find one and it doesn't let me create on All Together Now , I guess is a moderator thing.

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30 March 2020
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QuarryMan
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@Jules That's understandable; I've done the same thing with many artists I'm now a big fan of. When I first was recommended Björk, I listened to about 6 or 7 of her most played songs on Spotify, hoping to find something that interested me, but none of it stuck out. Fast forward two years, and she's one of my favourite artists ever, and indeed my avatar on this site. When you do revisit Nirvana's discography, I think another thing to note is how Kurt (note it's spelled with a K, not a C) wanted to fuse together the raw aggression of punk with more pop elements.. he described his intentions for the sound of Nevermind in particular as "The Knack and the Bay City Rollers getting molested by Black Flag and Black Sabbath". It's nothing that hadn't been done before, but none of their predecessors did it in a way that captured the inspiration of America's youth quite like Nirvana.

Also worth checking out are some of the albums on his list of favourites. Quite telling are the inclusion of The Shaggs (whose album is notorious for being basically unlistenably bad in a way that people somehow enjoy), as well as Pixies, whose mixture of pop with white noise was basically the blueprint for Nirvana's sound.

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On Coltrane, I think at this point I would go with you on picking Miles over him. Miles' discography is way longer due to Trane's tragic early passing and due to his restless creative spirit has a lot more variety. The sound he arrived at it in the late 60s and early 70s is perfection to my ears: funky, murky and occasionally mysterious jazz-rock that combined Miles' experimentalism with contemporary influences like Hendrix and Sly Stone.

That said, for me the main appeal of Trane is the spirituality he expressed in his music. I'm not religious personally, but I find the way he expressed his faith through music to be very empowering and cathartic. A Love Supreme is the most obvious example of this (with the fourth part 'Psalm' being one of my favourite pieces of music ever) but in the more extreme direction Ascension is a wonderfully abrasive free jazz rendering of the same feeling. What I like so much about the latter is that if you just dip your toes into the sound, it'll probably sound absolutely awful, but if you embrace it and fully immerse yourself, you'll get completely caught up in the pure joy and elation expressed through the music. I also really love Trane's softer stuff, he managed to record some wonderfully mellow ballads without ever sounding corny.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?.....TMqes6HDqU

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30 March 2020
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Clerefor Sede said
@QuarryMan loved that response. You seem to assume I've listen to Nirvana a lot. Like I've heard their discography, backwards, because curiosity took ever me for In Utero. But I don't think I payed them much attention because after the first tracks things start to feel the same and when great tracks appear you don't even notice them, I sometimes leave the music and start doing other things, like cleaning or talking to someone on the phone.

Then I've heard tracks on their own, like YouTube videos and such. So your insight on why you think they're are great and the context you provided me about the possibility of Curt not dying tells me a lot of what to focus on when I revisit their discography. I plan in doing pretty soon.

And it just seems that we are polar opposites. I'm kind of underwhelmed by Coltrane also. I'm one of those that pick Miles over Coltrane. Also, is it possible to start a thread on jazz? because I cannot find one and it doesn't let me create on All Together Now , I guess is a moderator thing.

I liked Nirvana a lot while they were around: their sound, crunchy guitars with pop hooks and primal-scream vocals. It was indeed a big deal that an actual literal punk rock album could top the US album charts, but their music wasn't necessarily revolutionary - just the huge response to it. And of course the tragedy of Cobain makes it harder to evaluate the actual worth of his music without thinking of promise unfulfilled.

Miles vs Coltrane?? Why would I have to (want to) choose just one? paul-mccartney Have you listened to a huge amount of Coltrane's music, Clerefor, from different periods of his recording history? His soloing style was always radically changing every couple of years during his recording lifetime (roughly 1955-67), so it's possible you may appreciate what he was doing in say 1961, more than 1965...just a thought!

It is too bad the jazz thread was locked, but I guess there's the derail thread....

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QuarryMan
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I think the 'what are you listening to right now?' thread is a good catch-all for non-Beatles related musical discussion.

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30 March 2020
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vonbontee
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Sure, yeah. Or the occasional jazz thang can sneak its way into the up/down thread.

Regardless of my personal preference, I'd have to agree that Miles is probably the more important artist - basically invented modal jazz, jazz-rock, led two very different world-shattering quintets, etc. But of course, there's no telling if Trane might not have gone electric himself in 1968, or pursued the musics of the far east (or collaborated with his friend Ravi Shankar, like they'd hoped 🙁 )....

@Jules , if you want a recommendation or two, try "Giant Steps", "Africa Brass", "Live at the Village Vanguard Vol. II" or maybe Quarryman's favourite "First Meditations (For Quartet)", just to pick a few at random. They're all quite lovely and quite different apple01

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GEORGE: In fact, The Detroit Sound. JOHN: In fact, yes. GEORGE: In fact, yeah. Tamla-Motown artists are our favorites. The Miracles. JOHN: We like Marvin Gaye. GEORGE: The Impressions, Marvin Gaye. PAUL & GEORGE: Mary Wells. GEORGE: The Exciters. RINGO: Chuck Jackson. JOHN: To name but eighty.

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30 March 2020
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QuarryMan
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I'd have loved to hear Trane collaborate with Ravi. Perhaps in another timeline we might have seen both a Miles-Hendrix-Macca collab (which was apparently in the works prior to Jimi's death) and a Trane-Shankar-Harrison one tooa-hard-days-night-george-4We can dream, I suppose... The closest we have, probably, is Alice's solo work, which is highly enjoyable in its own right. I've not ventured much further than Journey but it's one of those discographies I definitely need to dive into.

It's interesting to think about what Trane playing with an electrified band might've sounded like, anyway. I think Miles' whole funk and Wah-Wah thing probably slots in better with rock instrumentation, but I think there might've been room for some soaring sax in Miles' fusion bands had the two come back together again.

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