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9.58am
1 December 2009
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ewe2 said
And who would have believed they could pull off psychedelic with No Quarter?
Me! Or anyone who’s heard “Dazed and Confused” or “Levee” or the middle of “Whole Lotta Love”, maybe, particularly through headphones…I think those three have higher doses of concentrated psychedelia than NQ; I think that one’s closer to prog. But y’know, opinions.
And there’s STILL Led Zeppelin fans who dont appreciate “The Crunge”!
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Beatlebug, NeckoGEORGE: In fact, The Detroit Sound. JOHN: In fact, yes. GEORGE: In fact, yeah. Tamla-Motown artists are our favorites. The Miracles. JOHN: We like Marvin Gaye. GEORGE: The Impressions PAUL & GEORGE: Mary Wells. GEORGE: The Exciters. RINGO: Chuck Jackson. JOHN: To name but eighty.
12.21am
8 January 2015
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I agree there’s an element of prog with LZ but to my ears NQ is late 60’s style psychedelic as well. For it to be true prog there’d have to be odd time-signatures and elements of jazz/classical motifs, Gentle Giant they ain’t. Jimmy Page’s production generally tends to the psychedelic but I see that as icing on the cake, not the cake.
Have to disagree with the others, they’re ripped-off blues with icing. Not saying they’re bad cakes, though. I rather like LZ’s use of time signatures, I think its a clever way to freshen up blues motifs. And sometimes its not time-signatures but clever use of accenting/syncopation to trick your ears. Also, I used to hate D’Yer Mak’er but now I see it in the same category as The Crunge.
This guy trying to explain the drumming on that song is hilarious, at one stage he does it with his hands for some reason:
It’s one of those situations where playing it is easier than breaking it down.
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but I may have to get more specific in the future.
10.59am
1 December 2009
Offline That’s an interesting distinction to make, between “pure” psychedelia and ripped – off blued with psychedelic production. (Not to mention the difference between psychedelia and “acid rock”. Because it wasn’t mentioned!)
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BeatlebugGEORGE: In fact, The Detroit Sound. JOHN: In fact, yes. GEORGE: In fact, yeah. Tamla-Motown artists are our favorites. The Miracles. JOHN: We like Marvin Gaye. GEORGE: The Impressions PAUL & GEORGE: Mary Wells. GEORGE: The Exciters. RINGO: Chuck Jackson. JOHN: To name but eighty.
5.19pm
26 January 2017
Offline I’m not a fan of The Crunge. Probay the only song on the album I’m not crazy about.
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Beatlebug"The pump don't work cause the vandals took the handles!"
-Bob Dylan, Subterranean Homesick Blues
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-Brian Wilson, Surfer Girl
2.27am
8 January 2015
Offline vonbontee said
That’s an interesting distinction to make, between “pure” psychedelia and ripped – off blued with psychedelic production. (Not to mention the difference between psychedelia and “acid rock”. Because it wasn’t mentioned!)
I think of LZ as being equally synthesisers as original, in a more blatant way than the Beatles. So I’m applying labels from that perspective which may or may not be valid (according to what standard, I wonder) 
I’m also making a distinction between what the song is and the production, which is just a personal thing, I think Page is a brilliant producer. Learning how much they stole (and again I’m not saying they’re unique, just blatant) rather ruined the enjoyment of the early songs for me. That goes for most of the late 60’s blues revival too, whether I like it or not.
But let’s take your examples and contrast them to an album which is unquestionably psychedelic (to me), Chips From The Chocolate Fireball (encompassing two Dukes of Stratosphear albums) for arguments sake. In that light, Whole Lotta Love might have an atmospheric middle part that sounds “sort of” psychedelic but that’s a long way from matching anything remotely like What In The World. Ditto for Dazed And Confused, a song with the same idea (I like to think of that song as ‘spooky metal’ if we’re going to stretch definitions). ‘Spooky’ is also a good word to apply to When The Levee Breaks, but it’s certainly closer to Hendrix than standard Delta blues, I’ll admit. Now ‘acid rock’ is possibly a better definition, but as Wikipedia notes
Distinguishing acid rock from other genres can be tenuous, as much of the style overlaps with 1960s punk, proto-metal, and heavy, blues-based hard rock.
I guess I hew to a more British definition of psychedelia than that. Maybe we should call it ‘spooky blues’ which leads better into ‘spooky folk’ which LZ also excels in 
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10.55am
1 December 2009
Offline I’m intrigued that you’d mention a fictional band as a quintessential example of psychedelia! As opposed to Syd-era Floyd or something else from that time period…I’ve never heard those Dukes records (except for “25 O’Clock” a few times back in the 80s) but I was under the impression that they were intended as more of a piss-take than an serious recreation of the psychedelic sound. (I tried to listen to “What In the World” just now but the video is blocked here 🙁 )
I guess I’m largely defining those three tracks as psych/acid rock based on how they SOUND, particularly on headphones. Spacy and swirly, otherworldly. (And for what it’s worth, it’s specifically the “alternate UK mix” of “Levee” I had in mind, as heard on the deluxe Zep IV edition. That’s one messed-up production!)
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BeatlebugGEORGE: In fact, The Detroit Sound. JOHN: In fact, yes. GEORGE: In fact, yeah. Tamla-Motown artists are our favorites. The Miracles. JOHN: We like Marvin Gaye. GEORGE: The Impressions PAUL & GEORGE: Mary Wells. GEORGE: The Exciters. RINGO: Chuck Jackson. JOHN: To name but eighty.
2.38pm
8 January 2015
Offline 
I could just as easily have said Pink Floyd or Hendrix or the Electric Prunes, but the Dukes are a pastiche of most of those psychedelic tricks of the trade, I use it as a handy catch-all for those particular variations of styles and production. The stevehoffman forums had a crack at listing the influences, which might explain it more. But there’s no profit in this discussion, if it sounds psychedelic for you, then it is, it’s just not psychedelic for me.
edit: for those following, the Dukes of Stratosphear are the psychedelic alter-egos of the british band XTC and released two albums some years apart.
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3.54am
19 January 2017
Offline I love XTC but have yet to listen to the Dukes. Probably should do at some point… 
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ewe2"And life flows on within you and without you" - George Harrison
6.23pm
18 April 2013
Offline Just listened to Honeydrippers Vol. 1 and now I’m hearing Walking into Clarksdale.
I have a book about Led Zeppelin called Trampled Under Foot that I might start reading soon.
"If you're ever in the shit, grab my tit.” —Paul McCartney
5.38am
19 January 2017
Offline I’ve read Hammer of the Gods by Stephen Davis but obviously that’s pretty controversial…
"And life flows on within you and without you" - George Harrison
12.30pm
18 April 2013
Offline I’ve never read a Led Zeppelin book. Why is that one controversial?
The one I have is from the perspectives of various people who knew them, I think.
"If you're ever in the shit, grab my tit.” —Paul McCartney
3.48am
19 January 2017
Offline Expert Textpert said
I’ve never read a Led Zeppelin book. Why is that one controversial?The one I have is from the perspectives of various people who knew them, I think.
Well, to quote Jimmy Page:
“I think I opened [the book] up in the middle somewhere and started to read it, and I just threw it out the window. I was living by a river then, so it actually found its way to the bottom of the sea”.
In other words, the band think it’s a load of inaccurate rubbish.
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9.59pm
18 April 2013
Offline I’ve started the Zeppelin book.
"If you're ever in the shit, grab my tit.” —Paul McCartney
3.37am
19 January 2017
Offline Expert Textpert said
I’ve started the Zeppelin book.
Let us know what it’s like 
Out of curiosity, what’s everybody’s favourite Led Zep album?
I actually find them harder to rank then the Beatles albums, but i’ll probably go with Led Zeppelin III today.
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8.03am
18 April 2013
Offline I’d probably choose Physical Graffiti.
"If you're ever in the shit, grab my tit.” —Paul McCartney
5.58pm
8 January 2015
Offline I’m sort of caught between 4 and HOTH, because the songs have a broader range than the hard rock/blues they started with, but I’m not going to reject 2 either.
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12.17am
1 December 2009
Offline My favourite? Lemme see…
CAN’T BE:
In Through the Out Door, because the material isn’t up to the usual standards
Led Zeppelin II, because it’s too cobbled-together
COULD’VE BEEN:
Houses of the Holy, maybe, if “Black Country Woman ” and/or “The Rover” were included (but that would harm Physical Graffiti!); and if it were re-sequenced somewhat (“The Rain Song” belongs at the start of Side Two)
Physical Graffiti, if the second disc likewise had a bit more flow; and if I thought “Sick Again” was good enough to close the album with.
COULD BE:
Led Zeppelin or Presence, even though they lack the sonic diversity of III or ŽØŠø
PROBABLY IS:
III or ŽØŠø, even though they lack the singlemindedness of Presence and the trippiness* and suspense of Led Zeppelin. (*I’ll defer to @ewe2 and not call it psychedelia!)
WHY IT CAN’T BE III
It bothers me a bit that the electricity vanishes forever before Side Two is half over. (Would’ve loved to hear “Hats Off” played with a Les Paul through a wahwah and tremelo unit)
WHY IT CAN’T BE ŽØŠø
Overfamiliarity, due to its being played ten million times (the rest of the Zep catalogue’s only been played five million times)
MOMENT OF AWESOME ON III THAT ŽØŠø CAN’T MATCH
Modulated synthesizer drone that links “Friends” and “Celebration Day”, maybe the greatest non-Abbey Road segue ever
MOMENT OF AWESOME ON ŽØŠø THAT III CAN’T MATCH
Sandy Denny!
WINNER OF COIN TOSS, SINCE I REFUSE TO CHOOSE
*flips coin*
Tails.
CONGRATULATIONS ŽØŠø !!
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ewe2, Beatlebug, MarthaGEORGE: In fact, The Detroit Sound. JOHN: In fact, yes. GEORGE: In fact, yeah. Tamla-Motown artists are our favorites. The Miracles. JOHN: We like Marvin Gaye. GEORGE: The Impressions PAUL & GEORGE: Mary Wells. GEORGE: The Exciters. RINGO: Chuck Jackson. JOHN: To name but eighty.
1.46am
8 January 2015
Offline I thought more about the psychedelia thing and I think I resist it because of the rock/blues base they started with, and chronologically they broadened their palette. And also because Page is clever enough to draw in prog and folk and psychedelia as flavours, not necessarily the core of their sound, so I tend to think of them as rock/blues with extras, if that makes sense. My problem with the first 3 albums are also about how they hang together as albums, they’re more collections of great singles. I like the way 4 (or ŽØŠø) and HOTH hold together much more.
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11.42am
Moderators
15 February 2015
Offline ewe2 said
I’m sort of caught between 4 and HOTH, because the songs have a broader range than the hard rock/blues they started with [snip]
I’ll second that, with III being a close runner-up.
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8.55am
26 January 2017
Offline 4 and HOTH are probably the best.
I've been up on the mountain, and I've seen his wondrous grace,
I've sat there on the barstool and I've looked him in the face.
He seemed a little haggard, but it did not slow him down,
he was humming to the neon of the universal sound.
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