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Led Zeppelin
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9 September 2017
9.58am
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vonbontee
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ewe2 said
And who would have believed they could pull off psychedelic with No Quarter?  

Me! Or anyone who's heard "Dazed and Confused" or "Levee" or the middle of "Whole Lotta Love", maybe, particularly through headphones...I think those three have higher doses of concentrated psychedelia than NQ; I think that one's closer to prog. But y'know, opinions.

And there's STILL Led Zeppelin fans who dont appreciate "The Crunge"!

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10 September 2017
12.21am
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ewe2
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I agree there's an element of prog with LZ  but to my ears NQ is late 60's style psychedelic as well. For it to be true prog there'd have to be odd time-signatures and elements of jazz/classical motifs, Gentle Giant they ain't. Jimmy Page's production generally tends to the psychedelic but I see that as icing on the cake, not the cake.

Have to disagree with the others, they're ripped-off blues with icing. Not saying they're bad cakes, though. I rather like LZ's use of time signatures, I think its a clever way to freshen up blues motifs. And sometimes its not time-signatures but clever use of accenting/syncopation to trick your ears. Also, I used to hate D'Yer Mak'er but now I see it in the same category as The Crunge.

This guy trying to explain the drumming on that song is hilarious, at one stage he does it with his hands for some reason:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMd9bY6__yo

It's one of those situations where playing it is easier than breaking it down.

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10 September 2017
10.59am
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vonbontee
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That's an interesting distinction to make, between "pure" psychedelia and ripped - off blued with psychedelic production. (Not to mention the difference between psychedelia and "acid rock". Because it wasn't mentioned!) 

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I remember George saying 'Blimey, he's always talking about “Yesterday”, you'd think he was Beethoven or somebody' - Paul McCartney

10 September 2017
5.19pm
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sir walter raleigh
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I'm not a fan of The Crunge. Probay the only song on the album I'm not crazy about. 

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11 September 2017
2.27am
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ewe2
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vonbontee said
That's an interesting distinction to make, between "pure" psychedelia and ripped - off blued with psychedelic production. (Not to mention the difference between psychedelia and "acid rock". Because it wasn't mentioned!)   

I think of LZ as being equally synthesisers as original, in a more blatant way than the Beatles. So I'm applying labels from that perspective which may or may not be valid (according to what standard, I wonder) brian-epstein I'm also making a distinction between what the song is and the production, which is just a personal thing, I think Page is a brilliant producer. Learning how much they stole (and again I'm not saying they're unique, just blatant) rather ruined the enjoyment of the early songs for me. That goes for most of the late 60's blues revival too, whether I like it or not.

But let's take your examples and contrast them to an album which is unquestionably psychedelic (to me), Chips From The Chocolate Fireball (encompassing two Dukes of Stratosphear albums) for arguments sake. In that light, Whole Lotta Love might have an atmospheric middle part that sounds "sort of" psychedelic but that's a long way from matching anything remotely like What In The World. Ditto for Dazed And Confused, a song with the same idea (I like to think of that song as 'spooky metal' if we're going to stretch definitions). 'Spooky' is also a good word to apply to When The Levee Breaks, but it's certainly closer to Hendrix than standard Delta blues, I'll admit.  Now 'acid rock' is possibly a better definition, but as Wikipedia notes

Distinguishing acid rock from other genres can be tenuous, as much of the style overlaps with 1960s punkproto-metal, and heavy, blues-based hard rock.

I guess I hew to a more British definition of psychedelia than that. Maybe we should call it 'spooky blues' which leads better into 'spooky folk' which LZ also excels in a-hard-days-night-george-9

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11 September 2017
10.55am
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vonbontee
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I'm intrigued that you'd mention a fictional band as a quintessential example of psychedelia! As opposed to Syd-era Floyd or something else from that time period...I've never heard those Dukes records (except for "25 O'Clock" a few times back in the 80s) but I was under the impression that they were intended as more of a piss-take than an serious recreation of the psychedelic sound. (I tried to listen to "What In the World" just now but the video is blocked here 🙁 )

I guess I'm largely defining those three tracks as psych/acid rock based on how they SOUND, particularly on headphones. Spacy and swirly, otherworldly. (And for what it's worth, it's specifically the "alternate UK mix" of "Levee" I had in mind, as heard on the deluxe Zep IV edition. That's one messed-up production!)

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11 September 2017
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ewe2
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I could just as easily have said Pink Floyd or Hendrix or the Electric Prunes, but the Dukes are a pastiche of most of those psychedelic tricks of the trade, I use it as a handy catch-all for those particular variations of styles and production. The stevehoffman forums had a crack at listing the influences, which might explain it more. But there's no profit in this discussion, if it sounds psychedelic for you, then it is, it's just not psychedelic for me.

edit: for those following, the Dukes of Stratosphear are the psychedelic alter-egos of the british band XTC and released two albums some years apart.

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12 September 2017
3.54am
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Flyingbrians
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I love XTC but have yet to listen to the Dukes. Probably should do at some point... a-hard-days-night-paul-10

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17 September 2017
6.23pm
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Rishikesh
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Just listened to Honeydrippers Vol. 1 and now I'm hearing Walking into Clarksdale.

I have a book about Led Zeppelin called Trampled Under Foot that I might start reading soon.

"Stop throwing jelly beans at me." --George Harrison

18 September 2017
5.38am
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Flyingbrians
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I've read Hammer of the Gods by Stephen Davis but obviously that's pretty controversial...

"And life flows on within you and without you" - George Harrison

18 September 2017
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I've never read a Led Zeppelin book. Why is that one controversial?

The one I have is from the perspectives of various people who knew them, I think.

"Stop throwing jelly beans at me." --George Harrison

19 September 2017
3.48am
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Flyingbrians
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Expert Textpert said
I've never read a Led Zeppelin book. Why is that one controversial?

The one I have is from the perspectives of various people who knew them, I think.  

Well, to quote Jimmy Page: 

"I think I opened [the book] up in the middle somewhere and started to read it, and I just threw it out the window. I was living by a river then, so it actually found its way to the bottom of the sea".

In other words, the band think it's a load of inaccurate rubbish. 

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