Please consider registering
Guest
sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_Feed sp_TopicIcon
I read the news today (oh boy) - Current world events
14 June 2016
4.58pm
Avatar
Ron Nasty
Apple rooftop
Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 9896
Member Since:
17 December 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1101sp_Permalink sp_Print

Starr Shine? said
Gun laws aren't gonna stop someone from getting a gun. If someone is willing to go and commit mass shooting, they would be willing to use the black market.

When ever something like this happens, everyone goes out and looks for something to blame. Why not the killer?  

I always blame the killer.

However, you always have to look at the environmental contributors, and one of the environmental contributors in the case of the US is the easy availability of rapid-fire military firearms. Admitted, it is unlikely tighter gun laws would stop every mass shooting, however I bet it would stop many as the perpetrator would a) feel less comfortable and knowledgeable about handling a firearm and, b) would not necessarily have knowledge of how to buy firearms illegally.

I live in a city, London, where I know firearms are relatively easily available if you know the right people. I wouldn't even know how to begin going about getting a gun if I wanted one.

Are you seriously defending the Senate protecting the 2nd Amendment Rights of suspected terrorists? That is just madness.

The following people thank Ron Nasty for this post:

Mademoiselle Kitty >^..^<

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

 

The Beatles Non-Canon Poll List

14 June 2016
5.11pm
Avatar
Starr Shine?
Waiting in the sky
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 15598
Member Since:
1 November 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1102sp_Permalink sp_Print

No I:m jist tired of the first thing that pops into peolples heads when this happens in the US is always guns not people.

When one person dies it goes in the Rip thread, when many die it goes here.

There should be more focus on the the people. Mass shootings happen everywhere could harsher gun laws prevent crimes like this, maybe but it won't stop all of them.

If it is not guns, they'll just use something else to kill people with that might be even worse.

I do agree that people on the terrorist watch should have legal guns.

https://youtu.be/52nwiTs7bk8

Brainwashed by RadiantCowbells.

If you can't log in and can't use the forum go here and someone will help you out.

14 June 2016
5.41pm
Avatar
meanmistermustard
Here when I am. Not when I am not.
Moderator
Members

Reviewers


Moderators
Forum Posts: 22306
Member Since:
1 May 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Starr Shine? said
No I:m jist tired of the first thing that pops into peolples heads when this happens in the US is always guns not people.

When one person dies it goes in the Rip thread, when many die it goes here.

There should be more focus on the the people. Mass shootings happen everywhere could harsher gun laws prevent crimes like this, maybe but it won't stop all of them.

If it is not guns, they'll just use something else to kill people with that might be even worse.

I do agree that people on the terrorist watch should have legal guns.  

I'm sorry but its deflecting the focus. So many people are being killed in the US daily because of guns - legal or otherwise. Look at the stats that are issued every time there is a mass shooting in the US and doesn't it horrify you? Focus on the victims and how they were killed, there is a connection. Maybe be actually changing the laws and tackling the corruption the amount of victims would go down and so instead of focusing on yet another atrocity and another individual becoming one added to the sickening number they might be out there living their lives, and the pain and unbearable suffering felt by all those affected will not be happening.

The argument appears to be at times that all gun deaths cannot be stopped so screw it lets all go on and the next time someone dies (which will be in a few hours) we'll curse their senseless passing and then go on until a few hours later when it happens again when we'll curse their senseless passing.

The following people thank meanmistermustard for this post:

Mademoiselle Kitty >^..^<

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris) 

"Don't make your love suffer insecurities; Trade the baggage of self to set another one free" ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)

14 June 2016
8.46pm
Avatar
ewe2
Inside the beat
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 2834
Member Since:
8 January 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1104sp_Permalink sp_Print

To illustrate the stupidity of this, here's a list of recent gun incidents with the participants explanations:

YkdfR8K.jpgImage Enlarger

That's not even close to homophobic gun nut territory, and people are doing this. Personally I'm more disturbed that people jump to "Muslim terrorist" rather than "homophobic religious bigot with an automatic weapon", but it's an election year even here in my country so there's little hope of sanity about these discussions.

The following people thank ewe2 for this post:

Joe

I'm like Necko only I'm a bassist ukulele guitar synthesizer kazoo penguin and also everyone. Or is everyone me? Now I'm a confused bassist ukulele guitar synthesizer kazoo penguin everyone who is definitely not @Joe.  This has been true for 2016 & 2017 Sig-Badge.png but I may have to get more specific in the future.

16 June 2016
4.27pm
Avatar
Zig
The Toppermost of the Poppermost
Moderator

Moderators

Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 9807
Member Since:
14 April 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1105sp_Permalink sp_Print

One small step...

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyli.....or-n593396

Snips from the article...

"I've had enough. I've had enough of the ongoing slaughter of innocents, and I've had enough of inaction in this body," [Senator Chris] Murphy said during the filibuster which he launched around 11:21 a.m. Wednesday. He vowed to remain on the Senate floor "until we get some signal, some sign that we can come together."

 
He closed the filibuster by saying: "I have been furious since those days following Sandy Hook. I have been so angry that this Congress has mustered absolutely no response to mass shooting after mass shooting, in city after city that is plagued by gun violence."
 
"At least put your hand up for a vote that will begin, just begin the long journey to rectify a substantial national problem that takes 33,000 people every year," [Senator Bob] Casey said. "All we're asking for is a start."
And on the other side...
 
The National Rifle Association is fiercely opposed to what its leaders called a series of anti-gun bills and amendments, and warned its members Wednesday that the measures are a threat to the right to own firearms.
Personally, I own no guns - never have, never will. My take is that if I'm in a situation that forces me to reach for a gun to protect myself, it's already too late. Also, if our shores are attacked by another country, a gun will be useless because it will have melted as a result of the nuclear bomb that was dropped on us first. Trust me, no enemy is reaching our shores otherwise.
 
Still, I have no problem with hunters owning hunting rifles and shotguns. But I will never understand why private citizens are allowed to own handguns or assault rifles. There is only one prey their owners hunt. If collectors wish to collect them, so be it. Just have the firing pins removed and outlaw the sale of ammo for them.
apple01heart
 

The following people thank Zig for this post:

Joe

To the fountain of perpetual mirth, let it roll for all its worth. And all the children boogie.

16 June 2016
4.34pm
Avatar
The Hippie Chick
Counting the holes in Blackburn, Lancashire
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1387
Member Since:
17 January 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1106sp_Permalink sp_Print

I hope and pray that Murphy's fillibuster gets something DONE. My heart is heavy, and I just can't take any more of this senseless violence.

The following people thank The Hippie Chick for this post:

Zig

“She wasn't doing a thing that I could see, except standing there leaning on the balcony railing, holding the universe together.”  - J.D. Salinger

21 June 2016
2.29am
Avatar
meanmistermustard
Here when I am. Not when I am not.
Moderator
Members

Reviewers


Moderators
Forum Posts: 22306
Member Since:
1 May 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1107sp_Permalink sp_Print

The US Senate has rejected plans to tighten gun controls, including the restriction of weapons sales to people on terrorism watch lists.

Four proposals were brought before the Senate after 49 people died in an attack on a gay nightclub in Florida.

But Democratic and Republican senators voted along party lines, blocking each other's bills.

Senators strongly disagreed about how to prevent more attacks happening in future.

Republican Senator John Cornyn said: "Our colleagues want to make this about gun control when what we should be making this about is the fight to eliminate the Islamic extremism that is the root cause for what happened in Orlando. My colleagues in many ways want to treat the symptoms without fighting the disease."

For her part, Democratic Senator Barbara Mikulski said: "Why is it we would go through such incredible scrutiny to board an airplane to protect me against terrorist, and yet we have no scrutiny of the people on the terrorist watch list to be able to buy a gun?"...

...

Also rejected were

  • A bill to ban suspects on terrorism watch lists from buying guns

  • A bill (backed by the NRA) that would allow the US attorney general to delay a gun purchase by a known or suspected terrorist, but prosecutors would need to convince a judge of the would-be-buyer's connection to terrorism within three days

  • A bill that would alert the FBI to terrorism suspects who have purchased a gun, without blocking the purchase outright

The BBC is the source.

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris) 

"Don't make your love suffer insecurities; Trade the baggage of self to set another one free" ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)

21 June 2016
4.55am
Avatar
Zig
The Toppermost of the Poppermost
Moderator

Moderators

Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 9807
Member Since:
14 April 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1108sp_Permalink sp_Print

I am (still) so disgusted. Apparently nothing serious will be done until a member of some Senator's family becomes a victim of the next mass shooting...or the one after that. Flaming assholes.

To the fountain of perpetual mirth, let it roll for all its worth. And all the children boogie.

21 June 2016
5.09am
Avatar
Ron Nasty
Apple rooftop
Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 9896
Member Since:
17 December 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1109sp_Permalink sp_Print

a-hard-days-night-ringo-8 This is the problem, @Starr Shine?, a political class that - because so much of it has been bought by the NRA - is incapable of passing even the sanest proposals.

You ask why our first thought when these massacres occur is about your country's gun laws, but your country's gun laws are providing the weapons in nearly every mass shooting you have.

We lost an MP to a shooting last week, the very wonderful Jo Cox, but it was a rare occurrence and the country stopped it shock. The battle over the most important vote to be held in the UK in 40 years ground to halt, the EU In/Out Referendum. The gun used seems to be an ancient sawn off rifle of some sort, and not a legally held weapon.

The best gun laws cannot stop every gun crime. It can prevent many though.

No other country but yours among the Western democracies have your level of gun violence, very few other countries have your level of gun violence. Nowhere else in the world has the level of mass shootings with legally held weapons that your country has.

There has been something like 7 mass shootings in the UK in more than the last 100 years - I read since 1845 somewhere. 7 mass shootings in the US is a good year.

Huge %s of the American public want tighter gun laws, the majority of paid-up ordinary members of the NRA want tighter laws, your political class - because of much funding from the NRA's corporate sponsors, especially to the Republicans - ignores what the country wants and does what the gun lobby says. Can you imagine the tobacco industry being so powerful?

And in the wake of Orlando, the Senate again votes down any restriction on the 2nd Amendment Rights of suspected terrorists.

I am sorry but that is madness.

a-hard-days-night-paul-10

The following people thank Ron Nasty for this post:

Beatlebug, The Hippie Chick, Mademoiselle Kitty >^..^<

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

 

The Beatles Non-Canon Poll List

21 June 2016
4.58pm
Avatar
Zig
The Toppermost of the Poppermost
Moderator

Moderators

Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 9807
Member Since:
14 April 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1110sp_Permalink sp_Print

Agreed, gun violence is incredibly out of hand and I am disgusted that it is. But guns are only a small fraction of the problem. Hate and/or twisted ideology are the main problems. Take the "gun" out of gun violence and you still have violence.

So go ahead, take away the guns. Take away the weapons that took this latest asshole three hours to kill 49 people. Problem solved? Guess again. No guns available? OK, I'll build a fucking bomb. No bombs available? Dude, I'll just arrange for some planes to be flown into buildings.

  • Orlando 2016 - 49 killed by guns 
  • Oklahoma City 1995 - 168 killed by a fertilizer bomb
  • New York, Washington, Pennsylvania 2001 - over 3,000 killed by airplanes

The third example is extreme, granted. But the second one happened and can happen again anytime anywhere in the world. As a matter of fact it has.

This is not just limited to the U.S., either. So, there are strict gun laws in the U.K. Problem solved, right chap? Wrong. There are strict gun laws in in Australia. Whoopee, mate!! No more violence right? Wrong again.

Please don't think for one minute that I am defending guns. I wish they never existed. But do think about this. Anyone who thinks the violence will end by merely taking away the gun is kidding themselves and jerking the rest of us off. The number of incidents may decrease, but the amount of deaths will not until the hatred stops - PERIOD.

To the fountain of perpetual mirth, let it roll for all its worth. And all the children boogie.

21 June 2016
5.31pm
Avatar
meanmistermustard
Here when I am. Not when I am not.
Moderator
Members

Reviewers


Moderators
Forum Posts: 22306
Member Since:
1 May 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I really do not believe that anyone believes that tightening gun control and laws will stop senseless deaths and acts or terrorism however it will make it more difficult to carry out such acts. Bombings, planes being hijacked, cars being driven into crowds etc are far less common than those committed thru guns.

The argument that other means of killing exist so why focus on x, truly bemuses me. That way of thinking will mean that nothing will ever be done and life will go on with more needless deaths and every time they happen there is a cop-out. And thats what it is to me - a cop out. You are never going to stop the hatred so unless you kick out every single person who could possibly be a potential threat and ban them from ever coming near you then you're screwed and history will keep repeating. If that's the approach than a) good luck with it, you're going to need it and b) I want no part of it. And anyway someone will get thru eventually so whats the point? May as well cross your fingers, close your eyes really tight and wish as hard as you can instead.

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris) 

"Don't make your love suffer insecurities; Trade the baggage of self to set another one free" ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)

21 June 2016
5.35pm
Avatar
gembo555
Royal Command Performance
Members
Forum Posts: 238
Member Since:
6 April 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1112sp_Permalink sp_Print

But making guns illegal is still a step. For example, here in the UK, we have far less killings than in the US as we have gun laws. If i wanted to go kill a bunch of people and there was no gun laws, i could get an 18-year-old friend to buy me the gun, and then i could commit a massacre. But, if we have gun laws, i wouldnt be able to get a hold of that gun, and me being lower-class, would never be able to afford bloody bombs, would I? So with gun laws in place, a massacre was just stopped, showing how banning guns from being sold to random fucking citizens, can stop a lot of killing. 

Tbh, i dont get the way the government in America polices things. Like, marijuana is illegal, yet assault rifles aren't? What the fuck. Its like those schools that spend more time worrying about their  dress code and sending girls home for showing shoulder, than the actual safety of their students. Similar mentality, taking away something barely harmful at all, and allowing something a hundred times worse.

21 June 2016
7.01pm
Avatar
Starr Shine?
Waiting in the sky
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 15598
Member Since:
1 November 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1113sp_Permalink sp_Print

"Make guns illegal"

That'll be as effective as banning alcohal is. Straight banning guns will turn citizens into criminals.

I say ban guns for people on terrorist watch lists along with tighter regulations on bomb making information since banning guns won't stop bombers.

Getting a gun license should be more like getting a car license with more regulation.

I'm more about looking for the root cause of terrorism and fighting that at the sourse.

The following people thank Starr Shine? for this post:

WeepingAtlasCedars, Beatlebug, The Hippie Chick

https://youtu.be/52nwiTs7bk8

Brainwashed by RadiantCowbells.

If you can't log in and can't use the forum go here and someone will help you out.

22 June 2016
7.54am
Avatar
Zig
The Toppermost of the Poppermost
Moderator

Moderators

Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 9807
Member Since:
14 April 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

meanmistermustard said 

The argument that other means of killing exist so why focus on x, truly bemuses me.

I don't think I am being clear on my position. I am trying to get people to focus on more than just x.

Trying to solve the problem of violence by only removing guns is akin to trying to solve the problem of obesity by only removing forks. We need to think more broadly.

Starr Shine? said 

I'm more about looking for the root cause of terrorism and fighting that at the sourse.  

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I am not naïve. There is no way to remove all sources of hate. But eliminating as many sources of hate as possible is far more effective than eliminating only the weapon. I am all for eliminating a single type of weapon. Then what? What about creating awareness? What about education? What about tolerance? Those are only three examples.  

Think more broadly, people. Please.

To the fountain of perpetual mirth, let it roll for all its worth. And all the children boogie.

22 June 2016
10.01am
Avatar
meanmistermustard
Here when I am. Not when I am not.
Moderator
Members

Reviewers


Moderators
Forum Posts: 22306
Member Since:
1 May 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I'm not saying don't bother focusing on the causes or terrorism, i'm not saying only focus on firearms. I'm all for education, forgiveness, awareness, tolerance and whatever else we can do to bring about peace and an end to senseless acts of violence, death and destruction but some are not going to be reached, some are going to slip past the radar. It's therefore more sensible to me to make it more difficult to get their hands on the means to do so. It's not one or the other, it's both and everything else. No one is saying that tightening US gun laws is going to stop every act, all that is being said is make it far far harder to carry out such atrocities. There is no magic fix and therefore steps have to be taken on everything.

 

Will also add that not all deaths and atrocities that are carried out in the US by using guns is terrorism.

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris) 

"Don't make your love suffer insecurities; Trade the baggage of self to set another one free" ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)

22 June 2016
10.12am
Avatar
Starr Shine?
Waiting in the sky
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 15598
Member Since:
1 November 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1116sp_Permalink sp_Print

How do you teach someone tolerance who has grown up for years hating the West, their own country, the people around them?

It's a prosses we don't have all the answers or else there wouldn't be terrorists. There are examples in the past of people who stop hating so we could look at those and go from there.

The problem with terrorism is not just the U.S. it is world wide. U.S gun laws doesn't affet terrorism anywhere else.

https://youtu.be/52nwiTs7bk8

Brainwashed by RadiantCowbells.

If you can't log in and can't use the forum go here and someone will help you out.

22 June 2016
10.31am
Avatar
Zig
The Toppermost of the Poppermost
Moderator

Moderators

Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 9807
Member Since:
14 April 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

In a different thread, I had posted:

In March, a horse named Lily was dropped off and abandoned at an auction house in nearby New Holland, PA. She was severely malnourished and covered with paint marks consistent with those made from paintballs.

And now for the happy ending - one of my favorite celebrities, Jon Stewart, owns an animal sanctuary in New Jersey with his wife. After they heard about Lily and her heartbreaking story, they have taken her in and plan to let her do whatever she wants for as long as she can.

 

Sadly, Lily has died. She had to be euthanized Sunday after falling and breaking a bone in her neck. A statement from Tracey Stewart; "When we knew there was nothing more we could do for her we covered her in kisses and kind words and said our goodbyes". 

Painfully sad.

To the fountain of perpetual mirth, let it roll for all its worth. And all the children boogie.

22 June 2016
11.10am
Avatar
Starr Shine?
Waiting in the sky
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 15598
Member Since:
1 November 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1118sp_Permalink sp_Print

At least she had a good retirement.

https://youtu.be/52nwiTs7bk8

Brainwashed by RadiantCowbells.

If you can't log in and can't use the forum go here and someone will help you out.

23 June 2016
9.09pm
Avatar
Ahhh Girl
sailing on a winedark open sea
Moderator

Moderators

Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 18571
Member Since:
20 August 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1119sp_Permalink sp_Print

Watching the Brexit results is like singing

You say yes, I say no
You say stop and I say go go go, oh no
You say goodbye and I say hello

The following people thank Ahhh Girl for this post:

Evangeline, Beatlebug
23 June 2016
11.20pm
Avatar
Ahhh Girl
sailing on a winedark open sea
Moderator

Moderators

Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 18571
Member Since:
20 August 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1120sp_Permalink sp_Print

Now it is Paul's The Pound is Sinking a-hard-days-night-ringo-6

The following people thank Ahhh Girl for this post:

Mademoiselle Kitty >^..^<, Beatlebug
Forum Timezone: America/Chicago
Most Users Ever Online: 700
Currently Online: AppleScruffJunior, Teddy Salad, Jenna L
1
Guest(s)
Top Posters:
Starr Shine?: 15598
Ron Nasty: 9896
Necko: 7858
50yearslate: 7807
parlance: 7111
AppleScruffJunior: 6468
mr. Sun king coming together: 6403
Mr. Kite: 6147
trcanberra: 6063
mithveaen: 4621
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 87
Members: 2728
Moderators: 6
Admins: 2
Forum Stats:
Groups: 3
Forums: 44
Topics: 4789
Posts: 331194
Newest Members:
paulsbrokenaglass, 3vester, Tminatorh, Roman Orlov, LCK
Moderators: Joe: 5071, Zig: 9807, meanmistermustard: 22306, Ahhh Girl: 18571, Beatlebug: 15500, The Hole Got Fixed: 7104
Administrators: Joe: 5071, Ellie: 4