Please consider registering
Guest
sp_LogInOut Log Insp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_Feed sp_TopicIcon
I read the news today (oh boy) - Current world events
19 June 2015
6.28pm
Avatar
trcanberra
Oz
Apple rooftop
Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 6064
Member Since:
29 August 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
541sp_Permalink sp_Print

Anything that is in the constitution stays in there.”

Times change – so should ancient thinking now and again.

==> trcanberra and hongkonglady - Together even when not (married for those not in the know!) <==

19 June 2015
6.30pm
Avatar
trcanberra
Oz
Apple rooftop
Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 6064
Member Since:
29 August 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
542sp_Permalink sp_Print

They say never discuss politics or religion……….It’s true

I disagree with whoever said this. Some people think it’s okay to lop your hand off for stealing an apple – I will debate with them until I am six feet under.

Oh, and you forgot the most interesting part of that saying 🙂

==> trcanberra and hongkonglady - Together even when not (married for those not in the know!) <==

19 June 2015
6.49pm
Wigwam
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1913
Member Since:
18 October 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
543sp_Permalink sp_Print

Annadog40 said

Wigwam said
 

They say never discuss politics or religion……….It’s true….. I’d argue that any, even oblique criticism of ‘The American Constitution’ does both, such is the intensity, the almost religious regard felt for the work of The Founding Fathers……(though just one of them did the heavy lifting).

 

I agree about the Constitution. Anything that is in the constitution stays in there. That is why they had to create another ammendment (21st) to negate prohibition (18th amendment).

Did you know during ‘Prohibition’ 10,000 Americans were poisoned by the American government?

19 June 2015
7.44pm
Avatar
Ron Nasty
Apple rooftop
Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 12534
Member Since:
17 December 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
544sp_Permalink sp_Print

I do not think many of us non-Americans who have a reasonable understanding of things do underestimate the love many Americans have for their guns, I just think we find it incomprehensible the lack of willingness to control who can own weapons legally, and what type of weapons they can own.

annadog40 made a claim about tests and background checks. Being polite, and accepting she may be unaware of this, but the claim is false. No tests or background checks are needed if you buying a gun privately or from a gun show. A law to expand background checks to those sales formats was defeated by the Senate in 2013.

I, personally, hate the 2nd Amendment, and the way it is waved. The guns the Founding Fathers spoke of were very different to today’s guns. I believe, maybe wrongly, that had the Founding Fathers had any idea that guns would develop to become the weapons they are now, and how their words would be used to support the ownership of those weapons, they might have framed the Amendment rather differently. Saying somebody has a right to own a musket is very different to saying somebody has a right to a semi-automatic.

Those closer to the Founding Fathers in terms of time frame saw no problems with placing limitations on the 2nd Amendment. It was often the case that the carrying of weapons in many frontier towns was banned with the town limits. In fact, with the banning of fully automatic weapons, the American government has already recognised that some weapons are just too dangerous.

Should the lawmakers and – more importantly – the people decide enough is enough, not even the false barrier of the Constitution could stand in the way. The Founding Fathers had no understanding of assualt-style weapons or high-capacity ammo clips, so Americans should stop hiding behind their frock coats and claiming that’s what they would have wanted.

A properly handled licensing system, like you get with cars, would probably have stopped some of these massacres. We (the UK) are not a country without the problems of illegal weapons, and the violence they are often involved in, but – thankfully – because of our gun controls we have very few mass shootings with legally-held weapons (I can only think of two in my lifetime!). It seems the majority (if not all) of these regular US mass shootings are not done by some criminal with an illegal weapon, but by those with legal weapons. This current arsehole was given the gun for his 21st birthday by his father. He shot and killed 9 people within two months. I doubt any background checks were done into him in that process, though the father might have been background checked (depending where he got the gun)… just not the person the gun was going to.

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

To @ Ron Nasty it's @ mja6758
The Beatles Bible 2020 non-Canon Poll Part One: 1958-1963 and Part Two: 1964-August 1966

19 June 2015
8.13pm
Avatar
meanmistermustard
Thankfully not where I am.
Moderator
Members

Reviewers


Moderators
Forum Posts: 25123
Member Since:
1 May 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

The argument that to stop or deter folk getting killed by guns is to arm everyone else (or make it possible for them to be armed) is the most stupid argument ever (to stop people getting killed arm more people as they will then be safer).

Yip it it will piss folk off but as soon as all those pro-bearing arms get a reality check and agree to make it far tougher to get access to guns the safer the country will be.

But its in your constitution so what does it matter than folk are getting gunned down, far better to stick to something written centuries ago.a-hard-days-night-ringo-12

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris)

19 June 2015
8.26pm
Avatar
Ahhh Girl
sailing on a winedark open sea
Moderator

Moderators

Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 22541
Member Since:
20 August 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
546sp_Permalink sp_Print

Is this a good report on the state of gun control and gun deaths in the UK?

http://www.loc.gov/law/help/fi…..ritain.php

19 June 2015
8.32pm
Avatar
Ahhh Girl
sailing on a winedark open sea
Moderator

Moderators

Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 22541
Member Since:
20 August 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
547sp_Permalink sp_Print

Here’s an interesting statistics comparison.

http://www.theguardian.com/new…..world-list

19 June 2015
8.38pm
Wigwam
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1913
Member Since:
18 October 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
548sp_Permalink sp_Print

trcanberra said
They say never discuss politics or religion……….It’s true

I disagree with whoever said this. Some people think it’s okay to lop your hand off for stealing an apple – I will debate with them until I am six feet under.

Oh, and you forgot the most interesting part of that saying 🙂

I don’t know it??

19 June 2015
8.46pm
Avatar
Ron Nasty
Apple rooftop
Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 12534
Member Since:
17 December 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
549sp_Permalink sp_Print

The report seems pretty accurate, @Ahhh Girl.

The statistics, while interesting, I think slightly less valid as they refer to all gun crime rather than this particular type of gun crime – the mass shooting with a legally held weapon. I am sure the USA would be near the top, and probably sadly at the top, of that particular chart.

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

To @ Ron Nasty it's @ mja6758
The Beatles Bible 2020 non-Canon Poll Part One: 1958-1963 and Part Two: 1964-August 1966

19 June 2015
8.52pm
Avatar
Starr Shine?
Waiting in the sky
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 16105
Member Since:
1 November 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
550sp_Permalink sp_Print

ahdn_paul_06Some places in the U.S. require a licensed gun dealer to preform background checks on the person receiving the gift before the gift giver is allowed to give the gun to them. Maybe that could be something that should be implemented everywhere in the U.S.

https://youtu.be/52nwiTs7bk8

Brainwashed by RadiantCowbells.

If you can't log in and can't use the forum go here and someone will help you out.

19 June 2015
9.18pm
Wigwam
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1913
Member Since:
18 October 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

…….And most of us Brits don’t know that the American Constitution was almost a perfect  re-drafting of the English Bill of Rights 1689. Which also included the right for all to bear arms . ….James 11 having earlier disarmed the protestants.

 

I agree with Nasty and trCanberra on this. In the agrarian world Jefferson and Co lived in… they could not have envisaged our world today. For example, how any slick Harvard lawyer worth his salt could turn the Constitution inside out to equate freedom of speech with pornography.

That’s the trouble with constitutions they can mean what you want them to mean.

But Americans set store by it and who’s going to tell them different?

 

To be fair and to try to add some balance……. It’s hard to deny, (though perhaps difficult to prove), how many crimes are prevented by guns in the hands of the good guys.

The following people thank Wigwam for this post:

Oudis, Ahhh Girl
19 June 2015
9.31pm
Avatar
Ron Nasty
Apple rooftop
Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 12534
Member Since:
17 December 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
552sp_Permalink sp_Print

It only works as a Federal law, @Starr Shine?. It’s almost worthless if you just have to cross the border into the next state. Then you set up a situation where irresponible States more interested in the business than the ethics compete to become the easiest place to get a gun. It’s made totally useless unless it also includes private sales and gun shows. Without uniform Federal laws that cover all legal transactions involving firearms there can only be failure… but that would be gun control!

Of course, there is an easy way around the 2nd Amendment. Don’t control guns, let the feckers buy as many as they want of any sort, just control the ammunition, make that the thing you make the ownership of licensed and controlled. Guns without bullets are sticks, and much less deadly to a crowd.

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

To @ Ron Nasty it's @ mja6758
The Beatles Bible 2020 non-Canon Poll Part One: 1958-1963 and Part Two: 1964-August 1966

19 June 2015
11.54pm
Avatar
trcanberra
Oz
Apple rooftop
Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 6064
Member Since:
29 August 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
553sp_Permalink sp_Print

Wigwam said

trcanberra said
They say never discuss politics or religion……….It’s true

I disagree with whoever said this. Some people think it’s okay to lop your hand off for stealing an apple – I will debate with them until I am six feet under.

Oh, and you forgot the most interesting part of that saying 🙂

I don’t know it??

S E X 🙂

==> trcanberra and hongkonglady - Together even when not (married for those not in the know!) <==

20 June 2015
8.44am
Avatar
Ahhh Girl
sailing on a winedark open sea
Moderator

Moderators

Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 22541
Member Since:
20 August 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Here in the US the third thing we are told not to discuss with strangers, in addition to politics and religion, is baseball.

The following people thank Ahhh Girl for this post:

trcanberra
20 June 2015
9.12am
Avatar
Ron Nasty
Apple rooftop
Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 12534
Member Since:
17 December 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
555sp_Permalink sp_Print

I have it on a higher authority that it’s not baseball you shouldn’t talk about, @Ahhh Girl…

peanuts.jpgImage Enlarger

The following people thank Ron Nasty for this post:

meanmistermustard, Von Bontee, trcanberra, Beatlebug

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

To @ Ron Nasty it's @ mja6758
The Beatles Bible 2020 non-Canon Poll Part One: 1958-1963 and Part Two: 1964-August 1966

20 June 2015
9.25am
Avatar
meanmistermustard
Thankfully not where I am.
Moderator
Members

Reviewers


Moderators
Forum Posts: 25123
Member Since:
1 May 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
556sp_Permalink sp_Print

I love Linus’s obsession with the Great Pumpkin. 

The following people thank meanmistermustard for this post:

Von Bontee

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris)

20 June 2015
12.23pm
Avatar
parlance
Slaggers
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 7111
Member Since:
8 November 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
557sp_Permalink sp_Print

Billboard article: Paul McCartney Honors Charleston Shooting Victims in between Classics at Firefly

At a point, his show turned political, as he paid his respects to the victims of the Charleston, S.C. shooting that claimed nine lives earlier in the week. “Let’s take a moment to pray for peace and harmony amongst people of different colors in the world,” said McCartney, seated behind a piano. A chill-inducing rendition of “The Long And Winding Road ” followed, a noble tribute to the victims of a senseless act.

parlance

The following people thank parlance for this post:

Oudis, Beatlebug

Beware of sadness. It can hit you. It can hurt you. Make you sore and what is more, that is not what you are here for. - George

Check out my fan video for Paul's song "Appreciate" at Vimeo or YouTube.

21 June 2015
2.15am
Avatar
Oudis
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1491
Member Since:
15 May 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
558sp_Permalink sp_Print

Wigwam said
…….And most of us Brits don’t know that the American Constitution was almost a perfect  re-drafting of the English Bill of Rights 1689. Which also included the right for all to bear arms . ….James 11 having earlier disarmed the protestants.

Wow. I didn’t know it either. Thanks, @Wigwam 

Forsan et haec olim meminisse juvabit” (“Perhaps one day it will be a pleasure to look back on even this”; Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 1, line 203, where Aeneas says this to his men after the shipwreck that put them on the shores of Africa)

22 June 2015
1.54am
mr. Sun king coming together
Nowhere Land
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 6394
Member Since:
19 September 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
559sp_Permalink sp_Print

Ron Nasty said
annadog40 made a claim about tests and background checks. Being polite, and accepting she may be unaware of this, but the claim is false. No tests or background checks are needed if you buying a gun privately or from a gun show. A law to expand background checks to those sales formats was defeated by the Senate in 2013. (…) Should the lawmakers and – more importantly – the people decide enough is enough, not even the false barrier of the Constitution could stand in the way. The Founding Fathers had no understanding of assualt-style weapons or high-capacity ammo clips, so Americans should stop hiding behind their frock coats and claiming that’s what they would have wanted.

First Off: Obviously, what happened in Charleston was awful. I just want it on the record that I accept it awful.

Secondly @Ron Nasty (Italics added) The problem with that is that the 2013 Bill that died in the Senate had 90% popular support. The large problem is that the people who don’t support additional restrictions are the ones who vote in the Primaries for Republic candidates for the House of Reps and Senate. Since 2010 (So, the last 3 electoral cycles), Republican incumbents have either lost their battle to win renomination for their seat or had to tack so far to the right to win. The people can want it all they want, but for as long as a Republican Senator or representative from Idaho or the Dakotas or Louisiana (or any other deep red state) faces his only serious competition in his re-election battle from somebody on his or her right – in other words, somebody more extreme than him or her – there’s no way anything changes. Whether you think the laws should change or not, if they were going to change they would have after the Newtown shooting. Or the Dark Knight shooting in Aurora. Or Tuscon, and the Gabriel Giffords shooting. Or any of the other examples in the last 25 years. 

 

Other note: The US is the only country that doesn’t respond to something like this. In Canada, the École Polytechnique Massacre of 1989 (the Wiki link does a good job explaining the basics) led to significant changes to the gun laws. It was accepted it had to be done. And now, there’s been 2 mass shootings in Canada since 1989. 

 

The following people thank mr. Sun king coming together for this post:

trcanberra, meanmistermustard, Wigwam

As if it matters how a man falls down.'

'When the fall's all that's left, it matters a great deal.

22 June 2015
10.12am
Avatar
Zig
The Toppermost of the Poppermost
Apple rooftop
Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 9827
Member Since:
14 April 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
560sp_Permalink sp_Print

mr. Sun king coming together said

Other note: The US is the only country that doesn’t respond to something like this.

I beg to differ. There is always a response. Unfortunately the N.R.A. (Neanderthal Retarded A******s) responds in a larger way by lining the pockets of and providing favors for politicians.
Makes me want to puke.

The following people thank Zig for this post:

trcanberra

To the fountain of perpetual mirth, let it roll for all its worth. And all the children boogie.

Forum Timezone: Europe/London
Most Users Ever Online: 2057
Currently Online: moriz, Richard, Sea Belt
Guest(s) 151
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
Starr Shine?: 16105
Ron Nasty: 12534
Zig: 9827
50yearslate: 8759
Necko: 8047
AppleScruffJunior: 7585
parlance: 7111
mr. Sun king coming together: 6394
Mr. Kite: 6147
trcanberra: 6064
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 88
Members: 2892
Moderators: 5
Admins: 1
Forum Stats:
Groups: 3
Forums: 44
Topics: 5545
Posts: 382705
Newest Members:
gideons_bible, Taliajae, CruncherBlock, pearwoofs, DrWinstonOBoogie
Moderators: Joe: 5707, meanmistermustard: 25123, Ahhh Girl: 22541, Beatlebug: 18217, The Hole Got Fixed: 8410
Administrators: Joe: 5707