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I read the news today (oh boy) - Current world events
30 May 2020
9.44am
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Dark Overlord
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While you guys bring up some really good points and i would love to see all 4 officers handed life sentences, i just wish these people didn't riot and i would love if Trump brought some of the people to the White House and negotiated deals so police officers are held to higher (or at least equal) standards then citizens when they commit crimes. Also, i think it's worth pointing out that police also disproportionately target poor people, so it's not like race is the only factor in police brutality.

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30 May 2020
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I've also heard concerns that a sizeable portion of the rioters aren't even locals and/or aren't even black. Make of that what you will.

@QuarryMan Tim Pool makes approximately 600 videos a day, lol, so I'll forgive you if you haven't seen the ones he's done specifically about George Floyd. Perhaps it says more about me than him if that one was the one I chose to share. I rarely post about current events here, but I felt it was actually constructive to share that one, since it featured an individual who could actually be helped in a simple and direct manner, through his GoFundMe (which I'm pleased to report has far exceeded its goal).

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30 May 2020
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Beatlebug said 

I've also heard concerns that a sizeable portion of the rioters aren't even locals and/or aren't even black. Make of that what you will.

@QuarryMan Tim Pool makes approximately 600 videos a day, lol, so I'll forgive you if you haven't seen the ones he's done specifically about George Floyd. Perhaps it says more about me than him if that one was the one I chose to share. I rarely post about current events here, but I felt it was actually constructive to share that one, since it featured an individual who could actually be helped in a simple and direct manner, through his GoFundMe (which I'm pleased to report has far exceeded its goal).

My apologies, I didn't mean to get at you for sharing the video - I didn't watch it, but had already seen the headline. It's good to hear that the GoFundMe has been successful. In terms of the identities of the rioters, I'm not sure whether you're implying it's a good or bad thing - to me it has very little to do with being local when this is such a widespread problem, and I would actively encourage people of all races/ethnicities to join in the campaign. I think if the movement was comprised solely of black people it would be in danger of becoming an issue of black-vs-white rather than one of everyone-vs-racists. 

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30 May 2020
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Dark Overlord said
While you guys bring up some really good points and i would love to see all 4 officers handed life sentences, i just wish these people didn't riot and i would love if Trump brought some of the people to the White House and negotiated deals so police officers are held to higher (or at least equal) standards then citizens when they commit crimes. Also, i think it's worth pointing out that police also disproportionately target poor people, so it's not like race is the only factor in police brutality.

Mostly agree - any way to solve a problem non-violently is always preferable. I would say that while you're absolutely right in saying that police disproportionately target poor people too, it's not as easy to profile someone for being poor as it is for being black, and black people who most certainly aren't poor are often racially profiled in just the same way, like that black CNN host who got arrested or any number of rich and successful black people who have been profiled over the years, Miles Davis in particular springs to mind.

I guess it largely comes down to the way policing is done - police focus on communities with lots of crime, which are predominantly poorer and have large minority communities, so it follows that the people who are arrested more fall into those categories. The evidence on this works is somewhat contradictory - some studies suggest that this 'proactive policing' style, which involves stopping people/asking questions/making arrests for minor offences etc, does reduce crime overall, but I've also seen evidence that civilian reports of crime actually go down by 3-6% in instances wherein proactive policing has been stopped, like in NYC in 2014-15. I'm no sociologist, but generally my understanding is that policing in this manner, which tends to be slanted against black communities without even accounting for individual racist attitudes held by police, basically contributes to and perpetuates a cycle of poverty and violence which is very hard to break out of. 

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30 May 2020
2.32pm
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Good point although i don't it's fair to use Miles Davis as an example, considering his arrests happened in the 1950's, when Jim Crow laws were still in full swing. If you look at more recent examples (such as OJ Simpson), you'll find that wealth goes a long way, regardless of race (although being white certainly helps).

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30 May 2020
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@Beatlebug said 

I've also heard concerns that a sizeable portion of the rioters aren't even locals and/or aren't even black. Make of that what you will.

I'd be interested to know how you know that "a sizeable portion of the rioters aren't even locals", and are you seriously suggesting that those who aren't black shouldn't be as incensed and angry by the needless death of a black man at the hands of law enforcement as those who are black?

"Make of that what you will," you suggest. Sorry, I find that borderline racist.

As a white straight man, I have stood alongside those of any colour or sexuality who have suffered injustice and discrimination at the hands of the State. Colour or sexuality has never been a reason for me to shrug my shoulders and say, "Nothing to do with me!"

And in my fifty+ years I have found myself, as a white straight man, on protests against the mistreatment of those of colour or a different sexuality that have turned violent. I've never once thought that I shouldn't be there because of being a different colour or sexuality as I consider us all equals and will stand up to oppression wherever I see it, and to whomever I see it being done to. Never thought I shouldn't be there protesting, only ever thought about my actions while protesting.

When I was one of those who was part of the constant 24-hour picket of the South African embassy in London in the days of apartheid, I never wondered why I was standing there protesting the discrimination against black people in that country when I wasn't black.

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30 May 2020
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This is a relevant quote. 

"They came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up."

Also, if only locals can protest, then why does the issue matter if you are not a local? 

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30 May 2020
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a-hard-days-night-ringo-8 Lutheran Pastor Martin Niemöller talking about the rise of Nazis in Germany in the 1930s, wise words of wisdom and experience.

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30 May 2020
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30 May 2020
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Dark Overlord said
Good point although i don't it's fair to use Miles Davis as an example, considering his arrests happened in the 1950's, when Jim Crow laws were still in full swing. If you look at more recent examples (such as OJ Simpson), you'll find that wealth goes a long way, regardless of race (although being white certainly helps)

Fair enough; it was just the first example that came to mind, I'm pretty sure I saw that a state Congress representative was arrested as well, I could be wrong though. What I mean, though, is that in the eyes of a cop, someone being poor isn't nearly as obvious on first impressions as them being black, maybe the clothes you're wearing might be a giveaway but that's about it. Though what I will say is that being wealthy often allows you to avoid being in the situations wherein you might be subjected to police aggression in the first place.

Very well said @Ron Nasty - we should all stand together against injustice no matter which group we belong to. Much respect and gratitude to you for taking part in protests against apartheid. 

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1 June 2020
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Abbey Road tweeted this picture on 30 May...

Abbey-Road-Studios-30-May.jpgImage Enlarger

...with the caption:

"Peace is not something you wish for. It's something you make. Something you do." John Lennon . Enough is enough.

(Shame whoever sprayed the wall misspelt Floyd.)

And today (1 June) confirmed they will be closed tomorrow as part of Blackout Tuesday, which will see much of the music industry shut down for the day:

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john-lennon-salute_gifjohn-lennon-salute_gifjohn-lennon-salute_gif

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1 June 2020
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Spotify is also taking part in Blackout Tuesday-- tomorrow they'll be adding a 8:46 minute moment of silence to all playlists and podcasts in honor of George Floyd apple01

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2 June 2020
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My wife and I volunteer delivering PPE to hospitals in underserved communities and on a PPE run today we passed all the boarded up stores in Manhattan. Helicopters and sirens all night last night. NYC hasn't had a curfew since the 1940's. An NYPD van drove into the crowd just a few blocks from my house.

Troubled times...

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2 June 2020
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Scary times. Stay safe, friends in the US!

There is no final victory, as there is no final defeat. There is just the same battle to be fought, over and over again. So toughen up, bloody toughen up.” - Tony Benn
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2 June 2020
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Beatlebug said
Man, I'm not one to get emotional over news but this whole video really got to me...

I hope this guy gets so many donations he doesn't know what to do with them all.

  

The guy was aiming for 100,000. People have donated $1,051,720. Let's hope he gets some wise guidance on how to best use the money.

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2 June 2020
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whooooa sorry I'm so late to this because it took me two days to calm down from the stupidity enough to not say stupid things (also I was busy actually having a life) (also research)

@Ron Nasty said

@Beatlebug said 

I've also heard concerns that a sizeable portion of the rioters aren't even locals and/or aren't even black. Make of that what you will.

I'd be interested to know how you know that "a sizeable portion of the rioters aren't even locals",

I didn't know it. I had "heard concerns," thank you very much. It seems the Minneapolis mayor made a statement that most of those arrested were from out of state. The story was still developing when I said that, and it was later shown that most arrests were Minnesotans. I was responding specifically (though I didn't make it clear because I was lazily typing on mobile, and that is my fault) to those upthread who made it seem that this was THE FINAL RESORT OF THE OPPRESSED MINORITIES RISING UP and that justified it.

and are you seriously suggesting that those who aren't black shouldn't be as incensed and angry by the needless death of a black man at the hands of law enforcement as those who are black?

"Make of that what you will," you suggest. Sorry, I find that borderline racist.

Says more about you than me if you read racial overtones into what was intended to be more, I don't know, conspiratorial than anything. I have been mulling it over for days and still fail to imagine how what I said could have been construed as "borderline racist." My point... I think... (and it was not well stated, to be sure) was that the people who are inciting and/or partaking in the rioting are, too often, not a part of and/or not working in the interest of those they claim to be supporting...

"Umbrella Man" incited the Michigan riots https://www.ajc.com/news/polic.....X0PRwIYIP/
This is not justice https://www.nbcbayarea.com/new.....s/2299729/ (press F for Mr. Dave Patrick Underwood, who, you might notice, appears to be not white)
These rioters are sus https://www.usatoday.com/story.....291658002/
very sus https://www.vice.com/en_us/art.....wsfacebook
They're LITERALLY BURNING DOWN LOW-INCOME HOUSING https://iotwreport.com/rioters.....g-project/
Counterproductive

It also saddened me to see how many people thanked the post in which you misinterpreted my words as "borderline racist" – Y U CALL ME WACIST I THOUGHT Y'ALL LOVED ME WAAAHHH no, I'm assuming they were thanking it for the words that follow rather than the words above.

As a white straight man, I have stood alongside those of any colour or sexuality who have suffered injustice and discrimination at the hands of the State. Colour or sexuality has never been a reason for me to shrug my shoulders and say, "Nothing to do with me!"

And in my fifty+ years I have found myself, as a white straight man, on protests against the mistreatment of those of colour or a different sexuality that have turned violent. I've never once thought that I shouldn't be there because of being a different colour or sexuality as I consider us all equals and will stand up to oppression wherever I see it, and to whomever I see it being done to. Never thought I shouldn't be there protesting, only ever thought about my actions while protesting.

When I was one of those who was part of the constant 24-hour picket of the South African embassy in London in the days of apartheid, I never wondered why I was standing there protesting the discrimination against black people in that country when I wasn't black.  

Lovely spiel there, one with which I actually agree. You can stand for or against any cause, racial or otherwise, no matter your race, and it should mean just as much because it is coming from a place of principle... right? So wouldn't that mean, as principled people who want to support poor black communities, we would stand against those who destroy said communities?

It has nothing to do with the point I was trying to make, which was this (already posted above, but it bears repeating)...
20200530_090328.pngImage Enlarger

The rioters are a pretty racially diverse group, but that's not the point. The point is: they're not helping the people they claim to fight for in any way. Nor are they doing anything to avenge or in any way honor the death of George Floyd...

99opop5rfg251.pngImage Enlarger

and, finally, my sentiments on the whole situation are well summed up by this:
unnamed.pngImage Enlarger

this is also sus af
https://twitter.com/Breaking91.....3032388608


hmmm

Also

@Pablo Ramon said

On the other hand, it would not have escaped your notice that people with a different skin color from yours could literally storm the state capitol holding automatic weapons, screaming at cops...and be allowed to drive home to the suburbs in their SUVs.

Are you talking about Michigan (not Minnesota)?

If so... "literally storm[ing] the state capitol holding automatic weapons"... holding. Not using. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/04/15/lansing-capitol-protest-michigan-stay-home-order/5139472002/ Lt. Darren Green of the Michigan State Police said, "They’re being respectful and not causing any issues at all."

Issues like, you know, arson and theft and actual physical violence against random people. On another topic, these rioters are not even slightly socially distanced, either... unlike the Michigan protestors, many of whom stayed in their cars the whole time.

I also think this is worth reading: https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/06/the-sole-justification-offered-for-the-riots-is-a-fiction/

you can check their sources yourself: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/national/police-shootings-2019/
https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/fryer/files/empirical_analysis_tables_figures.pdf

Finally... back to George Floyd for a moment... although I think the riots, at this point, have almost nothing to do with him and are just people who were tired of being locked down for two, three months, many have lost their jobs, they're in despair about society in general, and then someone lights the powder keg and they just go out and engage in wanton destruction of things that have nothing to do with police corruption (like CNN HQ, firefighters, local businesses) and looting for its own sake... https://www.foxla.com/news/looter-explains-his-motive-after-being-caught-by-police

but do we have any evidence that the man who murdered George Floyd was racially motivated? Beyond the fact that his skin was light, and Floyd's was dark? Isn't it racist to assume someone's motives based on their skin color? I'm not saying it isn't quite possible that it was at least in part racially motivated, but I think there's a lot more to the story than just that, and I also think that the main problem here is police accountability – this dude had a history of misconduct, and the other policemen (who, by the way, were not white) stood by and did nothing while a man's life ebbed away under their fellow officer's knee (and, by the way, that whole knee-on-the-neck thing is not a thing you do in policing).

oops I wrote an entire goddamned novel ... again

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2 June 2020
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Beatlebug said


@Pablo Ramon said

On the other hand, it would not have escaped your notice that people with a different skin color from yours could literally storm the state capitol holding automatic weapons, screaming at cops...and be allowed to drive home to the suburbs in their SUVs.

Are you talking about Michigan (not Minnesota)?

  

Does it really matter? I wasn't particularly thinking of Michigan which was only one of many places where mostly if not all white crowds blocked traffic and brought weapons to protest Coronavirus-related lockdowns. Those protests were covered on national television. Think for a moment what it might have looked like if hundreds of african-americans stormed their state capitals with weapons strapped across their chests. You don't really have to imagine because...peaceful protesters were gassed and beaten back so Trump could do a photo op yesterday. Non-violent protesters were run down by police vehicles in Brooklyn. A cop maced a nine year old girl in Seattle. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

When protesters demonstrate against police brutality and violence the police become counter-demonstrators. Heavily armed counter-demonstrators whose violence is shrouded by its claimed legality in the pursuit of "order." 

2 June 2020
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Note: I want to try to get one thing straight-- a thing that I think @Beatlebug was also trying to get a little bit at -- that there are outside groups not involved in or supportive of the BLM cause and police brutality protests who are using the protests and riots as a shield to commit illegal and destructive activity without being directly blamed. I'm just fecking sick of the activity of arsonists and extremists and such who are looting, burning, and destroying property under the guise that they are part of the ongoing BLM and police brutality protests. I made a few comments somewhere on this forum, I believe, where I borderline defended the intensity and violent nature of the protesters in the riots, but that was before I realized that things were way more out of hand than was initially impressed upon me and that outside parties were distracting from and sullying the true mission of the protests by committing illegal activity-- in short, they are ruining things for peaceful protesters, and, like Bebu said, are making things "counterproductive." However, I really want people to seperate this group of rioters from the BLM cause and the George Floyd protests, yes? 

A small example from my city ----> https://cbsloc.al/2XSnECJ

And, one last note, I truly think there is corruption in our police forces-- both largely by racism, whether passive or aggressive, and through militarized training strategies. And there is definitely racial injustice widespread over America-- you spread nuance all over this topic but it's still a fact that racism runs rampant and strongly in the U.S. still.

Racism in America is like dust in the air. It seems invisible-- even if you're choking on it -- until you let the sun in. Then you see it's everywhere. 

- Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

I have stronger words to say that are bubbling in my brain but I'm too tired rn to string them into coherent, water-holding sentences. I also am gonna do some personal and thorough research on this topic so i don't look and sound like dummy dum dum asshole. 

 

 

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The cnn thing was cause the police were there.

 

Also the fact that the dude was on they guys neck for so long for a non violent crime might be why, also his past violence could also be why along with other evidence.

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Though still not officially confirmed, Minnesota Senator Amy Klobuchar has tweeted:

Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison is increasing charges against Derek Chauvin to 2nd degree in George Floyd’s murder and also charging other 3 officers. This is another important step for justice.

It is said the other three officers will be charged with aiding and abetting murder.

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