Please consider registering
Guest
sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_Feed sp_TopicIcon
I read the news today (oh boy) - Current world events
19 September 2019
11.29am
Avatar
QuarryMan
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 2585
Member Since:
26 January 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2561sp_Permalink sp_Print

Trusting PragerU (a fake university funded by conservative oil baron billionaires) as if they're an objective source on climate change is hysterical. I mean, everyone has their biases and their opinions will inevitably shift their perception in some way, but PragerU are way beyond that. 

Saying 'the science isn't settled' is just a nice way of saying 'let's not do anything about this threat that the evidence overwhelmingly points to, because if we move too hastily we might just... guarantee a liveable planet for our children and future generations'. 

All the 'evidence' climate deniers have is pretty much gotten through a misrepresentation of facts or through outright lying.

For example, let's take conservative 'comedian' (an accurate title, but not in the way he thinks it is) Steven Crowder, who published a video called 'Top 5 Climate Myths Debunked' (he's now deleted it after having every single point debunked repeatedly) in which he argued, amongst other things, that the ice caps AREN'T melting but actually growing, citing an article based off of satellite data collected by NASA showing that the Antarctic ice sheet showed 'a net gain of 112 billion tons of ice a year from 1992 to 2001'. Hmmmm, pretty convincing, right? This is from NASA, after all...

What Crowder conveniently leaves out is that... there is more than one ice sheet on the planet. The Greenland ice sheet lost an average of 215 billion tons of ice a year from 2002-2011, which if we compared against the specific Antarctic sheet Crowder cites is a net loss of 103 billion tons of ice per year. The loss is actually speeding up, too, as we can see by this graph:

Screen-Shot-2019-09-19-at-12.03.34.pngImage Enlarger

Also, the ice sheet that IS growing is just one of multiple sheets in Antarctica, which is overall also showing a net loss of ice. Which we can see by this graph:

Screen-Shot-2019-09-19-at-12.25.54.pngImage Enlarger

Source: https://www.eea.europa.eu/data.....assessment

The article that Crowder cites: https://climate.nasa.gov/news/.....an-losses/

Then there's the question of - if the ice is in fact growing, where's all this bloody water coming from? 

NASA-Satellite-sea-level-rise-observations-1993-Nov-2018.jpgImage Enlarger

Crowder's website later published an article titled 

"CLIMATE CHANGE FAIL: Melting Glacier is Growing Again"

 

Ooh... very dramatic. They point out that an ice sheet in Greenland that had been shrinking in the past is actually undergoing a period of growth. This is the quote they cite in their article:

The Jakobshavn (YA-cob-shawv-en) glacier around 2012 was retreating about 1.8 miles (3 kilometers) and thinning nearly 130 feet (almost 40 meters) annually. But it started growing again at about the same rate in the past two years, according to a study in Monday’s Nature Geoscience.

You can back this up, too, since the ice sheet did in fact grow from October 2016 to January 2017. 

Screen-Shot-2019-09-19-at-12.11.11-copy.png

Look! Here it is! Here's all the stunning recovery this ice sheet made, in defiance of all those big government liberal communists who make up 97% of the scientific community! Still, as pointed out by youtuber Hbomberguy in his excellent video on this topic (who pointed me in the way of the sources I'm using here), October 2016 to January 2017 is an oddly specific period of time, especially since this stuff has been measured for decades now. I wonder what happens when we look a bit further back in time?

Image result for hmmmmmmImage Enlarger

The following people thank QuarryMan for this post:

Ron Nasty, The Hole Got Fixed

Tall, dark-haired QuarryMan likes basketball, music, and naturally, boys. He was a valuable participant on the track team. He is one of Freeport's great contributors to the recording world. As for the immediate future, QuarryMan has no plans, but will take life as it comes. 

 

19 September 2019
11.37am
Avatar
50yearslate
Playing on the roofs again
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 7546
Member Since:
15 November 2018
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online

Here is the evidence for Trump’s denial, which I forgot to put in my previous post: 

472C7D37-2FB6-4EB7-ABED-7D4BC56AE2F0.jpegImage Enlarger

Sure sounds like he believes him.

I’ll look some more for a direct quote.

The following people thank 50yearslate for this post:

Ron Nasty, The Hole Got Fixed

Love one another.

- - -

(I'm Fiddy, not Walrian)

- - -

IMG_3980.PNG

19 September 2019
11.47am
Avatar
Ron Nasty
Apple rooftop
Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 9788
Member Since:
17 December 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2563sp_Permalink sp_Print

In case you missed it, @50yearslate, I've already quoted Trump calling climate change a "hoax" and an "expensive hoax".

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

 

The Beatles Non-Canon Poll List

19 September 2019
11.49am
Avatar
50yearslate
Playing on the roofs again
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 7546
Member Since:
15 November 2018
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
2564sp_Permalink sp_Print

Here we go!

19DD2EC5-BDC6-4744-91F1-94C3E73F1C6F.jpegImage Enlarger

Good golly- imagine it being cold in winter!

938072AB-B02B-444D-8FFE-86531EC05B69.jpegImage Enlarger

It is possible to be focused on multiple important things at once!

639C552C-3626-4600-AAEC-2E18C5DBF20E.jpegImage Enlarger

Gosh- imagine using cold temperatures in one place as evidence in reference to the climates of the entire world!

The following people thank 50yearslate for this post:

The Hole Got Fixed, QuarryMan

Love one another.

- - -

(I'm Fiddy, not Walrian)

- - -

IMG_3980.PNG

19 September 2019
1.27pm
Avatar
AppleScruffJunior
Sitting here doing nothing but procrastinating...
Apple rooftop
Reviewers

Members
Forum Posts: 6381
Member Since:
18 March 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Lol bringing Shapiro back into the mix, I remember watching a video of his on climate change (I watch him for comedic purposes, the rubbish he comes out with at times, tickles my funny bone) and he said something along the lines of "if sea levels rise and start to come inland, people will just sell their homes and leave"..........

.......

......

......

......

 

"sell their homes"?

 

Who is going to buy a bloody house that'll be flooded constantly and/or destroyed in the next few years?!?!?

 

And nobody in the room reacted to such a stupid comment. 

 

Wake up sheeple! 

The following people thank AppleScruffJunior for this post:

The Hole Got Fixed, QuarryMan

 

INTROVERTS UNITE! Separately....in your own homes!

                 ***

Make Love, Not Wardrobes!

                ***

"Stop throwing jelly beans at me"- George Harrison

19 September 2019
1.34pm
Avatar
50yearslate
Playing on the roofs again
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 7546
Member Since:
15 November 2018
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
2566sp_Permalink sp_Print

Ron Nasty said
In case you missed it, @50yearslate, I've already quoted Trump calling climate change a "hoax" and an "expensive hoax".

  

Oops, sorry, I did miss that.

Love one another.

- - -

(I'm Fiddy, not Walrian)

- - -

IMG_3980.PNG

19 September 2019
6.46pm
Avatar
QuarryMan
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 2585
Member Since:
26 January 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2567sp_Permalink sp_Print

This extract from the hbomberguy video (full video here) I mentioned should delight you if you haven't seen it already @AppleScruffJunior 

Tall, dark-haired QuarryMan likes basketball, music, and naturally, boys. He was a valuable participant on the track team. He is one of Freeport's great contributors to the recording world. As for the immediate future, QuarryMan has no plans, but will take life as it comes. 

 

19 September 2019
7.53pm
Wigwam
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1875
Member Since:
17 October 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

50yearslate said

Wigwam said 

 

Got a cold........take vitamin C?

Yes?

We know how to kill a virus?

Depends on the virus...

We have cured polio?

I think so?

Lightening doesn't strike in the same place does it?

Actually, it does. 

 

We have 5 senses...Don't we

Yes.

We evolved from apes.......Gorillas and chimps didn’t we?

Not really... it’s just that we all evolved from the same organisms.

We only use 10% of our brains........We all know that.

Nope.

Hair and fingernails grow after death.......Don't they?

Also no.

What is the point you are trying to make here?

Also, to answer your question about whether Trump has explicitly denied the existence of climate change, yes, I believe he has.

Trump needs to get himself and his stupid laws out of my state blue-meanie

  

Linus Pauling in 1976 demonstrated that vitamin C warded off colds through increased resistance  or cured colds.......He'd cheated and cherry-picked his results ..Double blind studies showed them to be false...... People still believe what they want to believe.....

Never been a cure for polio.........Can't kill a virus they are not alive....they carjack cells.......You can deactivate them....(OK I'm being pedantic here sorry)...We have at least 4 more senses.....Proprioception...Break an ankle and you have to re-learn that one or you'll be more likely to break it again....basically it boils down to after a while you know exactly where that light switch is or when to duck your head.......Thermoception, sense of heat... equilibrium, sense of balance interoception.......look that one up.

I'd add that we have even more senses......we know when we're hungry or full......Want a shit or a pee........and most importantly the subtle difference between a fart and a shit....... I'd also argue that our shins are designed to seek out and find sharp corners in the dark unfamiliar surroundings.......

My point I thought was made by Black matter/energy......That

Science, even fairly settled science can surprise us.......After 1000s of years of study 95% of what's out there passed us by.......

Climate science is not settled......

The earth has heated up and cooled down long before the missing link between us and the apes first drew breath........ 

 

As for lightening? one method of staying safe while caught in a storm on a golf-course is to take out of your bag wave above your head a 1 iron

 

Even God can't hit a 1 iron

19 September 2019
8.19pm
Avatar
Ron Nasty
Apple rooftop
Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 9788
Member Since:
17 December 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Whether you choose to accept it or not, @Wigwam, 97% of scientists agree that climate change is happening, and that its biggest driver is man-made -- which is a scientific consensus. You can say the science is not settled, but there you disagree with nearly the totality of the world's scientific community...

Try reading the NASA site on the scientific consensus which quotes leading scientific organisation after leading scientific organisation who say climate change is man-made.

The science IS settled... it's just that there are those who want to deny the evidence because of the changes it means making to how life is lived and the choices we make.

The following people thank Ron Nasty for this post:

QuarryMan

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

 

The Beatles Non-Canon Poll List

19 September 2019
8.54pm
Wigwam
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1875
Member Since:
17 October 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

The Shapiro clip is funny.......555! Shapiro hadn't thought that one through...555!

Perhaps, if I'm being kind he thought the Government would be in the house market having been confused by the Liberal anti gun lobby suggesting a gun buy-back .......When you didn't buy your gun from the Government and they would be using your tax dollars to buy them off you......

 

To give a general response to you all.......

There are several questions.....

1. Is Trump a denier?......I think he's a questioner. Quotes dating back to 2014 before Global Freezing then Global warming were reconciled into the catchall 'Climate Change' the science was out then and still is......We can't predict weather or climate patterns with any accuracy......But there is a consensus stretching to an almost religious belief that no one dares question that it is down to man......Not that the climate changes..... but just how much human activities contribute to those changes.....It's hard to calibrate from one unknown what another unknown is....Just my view.

2. PragerU is fake......Why? The vid I posted was from the co originator of Greenpeace...... The stats' are out there.....I haven't seen a vid dedicated to refuting the one I posted ........If it was fake science, (as it could be), refuting it would be an easy task for the masses of PragerU haters......Scoffing PragerU is just going for the man and not the ball.....

3. The science isn't settled....all the predictions from '74, '75......2000......of a new Ice age ....or flooded continents because of warming within 10 years have proved wrong....We don't know enough.

4. No doubt in my mind we should go for a cleaner planet......

But I don't believe in empty threats or promises ...... Man is not.... and never has been in control of the weather for any promises made to be met.....I'm suspicious in what I see as the weaponisation of weather for political purposes.

5. I'm a mistrustful bastard...Guilty.

Finally......(you can amuse yourself with further discussion if you want).....Finally then there are enormous dangers to life on earth...

The originators of the Doomsday Clock.......begun incidentally by nuclear scientists probably out of guilt by having let the Nuclear Justin Trudeau out of the bottle... is set at 2 mins to midnight.......

Nuclear war......Climate change......bioterrorism......AI.....It's clear we are in a perpetual pickle......

As the great Philosopher Benny Hill said:....'Treat every day as though it is your last.....

.Because one day you'll be right!'

19 September 2019
9.24pm
Avatar
Ron Nasty
Apple rooftop
Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 9788
Member Since:
17 December 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2571sp_Permalink sp_Print

The first UN IPCC (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change) report was published in 1990, @Wigwam.

The actual science on whether there is man-made effect on temperature actually dates back to 1896:

Arrhenius2.gifImage Enlarger

Yes, the science has changed and been refined over the years, and some terms have changed over the years, but that doesn't mean the science is new, and that it isn't agreed on by nearly all scientists.

As I said before, there is a consensus. That's not changed by your wanting to ignore it.

You may not like the consensus that's been arrived it, but however much you want to pretend the science isn't settled, nearly every scientist disagrees.

The following people thank Ron Nasty for this post:

QuarryMan

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

 

The Beatles Non-Canon Poll List

19 September 2019
9.55pm
Avatar
QuarryMan
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 2585
Member Since:
26 January 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2572sp_Permalink sp_Print

We know humans are causing it (or at least significantly contributing to it) because

- We know CO2 is a heat trapping gas (we've known this as far back as the 50s).

- We know humans produce a ton of CO2.

- We can see that the increases in global temperature have correlated sharply with our rapid industrialisation and population increases (and thereby increases in CO2).

- We are fairly sure that although the climate has changed significantly over long periods of time in the past, as far as we can tell it has never changed this rapidly or this drastically. 

- There is a significant amount of evidence for the effects of it already: the sea level which has been rising for several decades, the hole in the ozone layer, the rapid disappearance of the polar ice caps etc etc etc...

It's also a mischaracterisation to treat it as a case of humanity 'controlling the weather' because that's clearly not what we are talking about here, and using such terminology frames the issue as something ridiculous before the conversation even begins. Weather is not the same as climate, and it's not a case of 'controlling' it as much as it is a case of our activities inadvertently influencing it through the by-products of our activities. 

There's nothing inherently wrong with being sceptical about these things, Wigwam, but the problem with your scepticism is that if we are right that climate change exists and is caused by humans (as the evidence overwhelmingly suggests), the more we delay doing something about it the worse the effects are going to be and the harder they are going to be to tackle. 

As for the PragerU video - here's a pretty good response. Potholer is a good channel, actually. You might appreciate his video "a conservative solution to climate change", for one. 

Tall, dark-haired QuarryMan likes basketball, music, and naturally, boys. He was a valuable participant on the track team. He is one of Freeport's great contributors to the recording world. As for the immediate future, QuarryMan has no plans, but will take life as it comes. 

 

20 September 2019
1.57am
Wigwam
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1875
Member Since:
17 October 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Ron Nasty said
The first UN IPCC (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change) report was published in 1990, @Wigwam.

The actual science on whether there is man-made effect on temperature actually dates back to 1896:

Arrhenius2.gifImage Enlarger

Yes, the science has changed and been refined over the years, and some terms have changed over the years, but that doesn't mean the science is new, and that it isn't agreed on by nearly all scientists.

As I said before, there is a consensus. That's not changed by your wanting to ignore it.

You may not like the consensus that's been arrived it, but however much you want to pretend the science isn't settled, nearly every scientist disagrees.

  

As I said elsewhere.....Consensuses can change dramatically......There was a 97% consensus that babies were safest to sleep on their stomachs......Now there's a 97% consensus that they are better off sleeping on their backs...........

Image Enlarger

 

ChesterfieldImage Enlarger

A medical specialist reports: “No adverse effects on the nose, throat and sinuses from smoking Chesterfield!”

 

A lot of stupid people took up smoking......perhaps they were mightily reassured by Drs Phlegm & Cough of Harley Street. I bet they are sorry now??

20 September 2019
2.31am
Avatar
Ron Nasty
Apple rooftop
Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 9788
Member Since:
17 December 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2574sp_Permalink sp_Print

Well, the first ad you use comes from before proper scientific testing of tobacco, and the second comes from a period when tobacco companies were starting to realise tobacco was harmful and had tame scientists they were paying to say tobacco wasn't harmful - the equivalent of climate change deniers.

I fail to see that they show anything, @Wigwam, other than the science develops, and that there are scientists who will sell their soul for the love of money.

The Chesterfield ad in particular is from a time when the scientific community were starting to realise the damage tobacco does, and the tobacco companies were covering up how much they knew about the harm their product was causing (something many tobacco companies were later successfully sued over).

Their scientists were the equivalent of the climate change deniers that the oil companies etc. trot out to deny their product is damaging.

To any Forumpudlian taking part in today's worldwide demonstrations and strikes...

john-lennon-salute_gifjohn-lennon-salute_gifjohn-lennon-salute_gifjohn-lennon-salute_gifjohn-lennon-salute_gif

The following people thank Ron Nasty for this post:

The Hole Got Fixed, QuarryMan

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

 

The Beatles Non-Canon Poll List

20 September 2019
2.45am
Wigwam
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1875
Member Since:
17 October 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

The ads saying how Dr Sputum recommends cigarettes for your health......went on well into the 50's. I remember them.....I'm pleased to say I never fell for them.... though many did.

I thought the asthma one...... which was the first I came across.... dated as it was, was just too sadly ironic to leave out.

You say:

"I fail to see that they show anything, @Wigwam_1, other than the science develops, and that there are scientists who will sell their soul for the love of money."

 

That's all you need to see......

I'll make my own mind up thankee.......I've never been one for following the herd.....Or I'd have been a smoker like some others on here!

20 September 2019
5.07am
Avatar
Ron Nasty
Apple rooftop
Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 9788
Member Since:
17 December 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

What you choose not to see, @Wigwam, is that the science you choose to support is the equivalent of the Chesterfield ad.

Me, I'm fully aware of the damage tobacco does, accept the science, would never recommend it to other people should they be non-smokers, and would never inflict the effects of my smoking on other people, and don't smoke around those who don't want me to.

The scientists were right about tobacco. I accept the consensus on tobacco, and reject those few paid scientists who claimed it was good for you.

You choose to believe there is no consensus on climate change, that the science isn't settled, and think the steps needed to limit climate change are unnecessary - making the same choice as the paid Chesterfield scientists who argued tobacco does no harm despite the consensus and truth that it does.

Whether you accept it or not, you're arguing against the consensus, as were those scientists who claimed there was nothing wrong with tobacco, and that it was actually good for you.

What happens if the deniers you choose to believe are as wrong as those who claimed tobacco had health benefits?

Then the world is fecked, not just your own health.

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

 

The Beatles Non-Canon Poll List

20 September 2019
5.20am
Wigwam
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1875
Member Since:
17 October 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Here's an interesting attempt to balance the main viewpoints......There's lots to be found out there.....

To say that the science is settled is wrong......Science per se  is rarely settled.......we are always learning more.......

As it stands today I side with the skeptics here.....You'll likely side against them....... That's fine....

But until we agree that the science is NOT settled it would be hard to see a way either of us can usefully employ our time in discussion......You can just repeatedly insist the science is settled.....ending the debate....... while I insist it isn't......Because .......It ain't.

https://www.omicsonline.org/op.....id=82391 

20 September 2019
5.22am
Avatar
AppleScruffJunior
Sitting here doing nothing but procrastinating...
Apple rooftop
Reviewers

Members
Forum Posts: 6381
Member Since:
18 March 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2578sp_Permalink sp_Print

@QuarryMan  said
This extract from the hbomberguy video (full video here) I mentioned should delight you if you haven't seen it already 

  

I'm angry I didn't do a similar thing, could have jumped on that gravy train. I saw that video about 8 months ago? Well ahead of the trend, grrr!

The following people thank AppleScruffJunior for this post:

QuarryMan

 

INTROVERTS UNITE! Separately....in your own homes!

                 ***

Make Love, Not Wardrobes!

                ***

"Stop throwing jelly beans at me"- George Harrison

20 September 2019
5.33am
Wigwam
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1875
Member Since:
17 October 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

You say:

 

"You choose to believe there is no consensus on climate change, that the science isn't settled, and think the steps needed to limit climate change are unnecessary - "

I can see there's a consensus.......Just as I see one here.......But I don't think a consensus is always correct.....That's been the point of almost every post I've made with regard to this......I'm skeptical.......basically the world's climate has always changed..We don't understand why or how much change is down to us.

I'm not against environmental changes at all.......Just they need to be shown to be valid changes........And then they must be adopted by all the world's polluters not just the US.

As for the rest of your post.....I've quoted it because I'm not 100% sure what you're on about...?? The health concerns that stem from smoking are clear and proven......Where that's the case I'm happy to go along with a consensus that makes scientific sense.

 

"Whether you accept it or not, you're arguing the consensus, as were those scientists who claimed there was nothing wrong with tobacco, and that it was actually good for you.

What happens if the deniers you choose to believe are as wrong as those who claimed tobacco had health benefits?

Then the world is fecked, not just your own health."

20 September 2019
7.58am
Avatar
The Hole Got Fixed
A Dock at Southampton
Moderator

Moderators
Forum Posts: 6981
Member Since:
27 November 2016
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
2580sp_Permalink sp_Print

Ron Nasty said
To any Forumpudlian taking part in today's worldwide demonstrations and strikes...

john-lennon-salute_gifjohn-lennon-salute_gifjohn-lennon-salute_gifjohn-lennon-salute_gifjohn-lennon-salute_gif

  

Wow

That was an amazing experience - they estimate around 150,000 people showed up to the Melbourne rally. I've never seen our city so packed! 

I'll post pictures tomorrow, too tired to find any. 

I hope the rest of the world follows our lead when the various strikes start in each timezone.

The following people thank The Hole Got Fixed for this post:

QuarryMan, Ron Nasty

Oh, by the way, this post was made by The Hole Got Fixed!

2016 awards: Username-Badge.png 2017 awards: The-Hole-Got-Fixed-2017.png 2018 awards:The-Hole-Got-Fixed-2018.png

Forum Timezone: America/Chicago
Most Users Ever Online: 700
Currently Online: Beatlebug, The Hole Got Fixed, Elementary Penguin, 50yearslate, Jenna L
1
Guest(s)
Top Posters:
Starr Shine?: 15584
Ron Nasty: 9788
Necko: 7856
50yearslate: 7546
parlance: 7111
mr. Sun king coming together: 6403
AppleScruffJunior: 6381
Mr. Kite: 6147
trcanberra: 6061
mithveaen: 4621
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 87
Members: 2736
Moderators: 6
Admins: 2
Forum Stats:
Groups: 3
Forums: 44
Topics: 4771
Posts: 329019
Newest Members:
HereThereAndEverywhere_1, wadawano, Hiram@123, Jimmie K, youknowwhattodo
Moderators: Joe: 5061, Zig: 9807, meanmistermustard: 22278, Ahhh Girl: 18419, Beatlebug: 15313, The Hole Got Fixed: 6981
Administrators: Joe: 5061, Ellie: 4