Please consider registering
Guest
sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_Feed sp_TopicIcon
I read the news today (oh boy) - Current world events
5 August 2019
4.06am
Avatar
QuarryMan
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 2584
Member Since:
26 January 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2321sp_Permalink sp_Print

I don't think guns should be banned. In fact, I think people have a right to defend their own home, and in today's dystopian proto-fascist USA, to defend themselves from the government. I just can't see any reasonable objection to the regulation of this area, as long as the regulation is carried out fairly and not used to unfairly disadvantage certain groups like the voter ID laws Republicans use to target black voters. If the USA is fine with regulating who gets to own and drive a car or something like that, I don't really see why regulation should be an issue. 

Tall, dark-haired QuarryMan likes basketball, music, and naturally, boys. He was a valuable participant on the track team. He is one of Freeport's great contributors to the recording world. As for the immediate future, QuarryMan has no plans, but will take life as it comes. 

 

5 August 2019
10.57am
Avatar
Dark Overlord
Nowhere Land
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4009
Member Since:
9 March 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2322sp_Permalink sp_Print

I think the problem is that the right hates the left and the left hates the right causing so much political division that it's hard to get things done.

In this case, the far left and right often have opposing views on the matter. On the far left, many see these incidents as a reason to ban guns all together, even if the shooting happened on a gun free zone. On the far right, many see these incidents as a reason to do the exact opposite, get more guns into people's hands, even though the shooters often buy their guns legally or through a legal proxy such as a relative.

Because of all this, we have to debate whether to have gun control or whether to have guns when instead we should be debating how much gun control should we have.

The following people thank Dark Overlord for this post:

CouldntThinkOfABeatlesPun, Beatlebug, ScarlettFieldsForever

If you're reading this, you are looking for something to do.

5 August 2019
7.16pm
Wigwam
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1875
Member Since:
17 October 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I come to see over the years that the left think people on the right are bad people....... The right think that the left's ideologies are bad.

In these two recent shootings one was a right wing nut.......The other nut supported Elizabeth Warren......

 

As for guns themselves?......It has to be conceded that there are crazies all over the world, they are on the left, on the right or religious nutters. Men and adolescents with grudges, lonely and disaffected, angry with themselves and the world, possibly desensitised through endless violent video games.......It happens in New Zealand and Norway ..........And there are stabbing versions in Japan and China..... But we don't see the same number of senseless mass shootings anywhere else......Availability of guns must be a factor.

Drugs another.........

The following people thank Wigwam for this post:

Beatlebug, The Hole Got Fixed
5 August 2019
7.59pm
Avatar
Beatlebug
Find me where ye echo lays
Moderator

Moderators
Forum Posts: 15313
Member Since:
15 February 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2324sp_Permalink sp_Print

I've actually heard a considerable amount of evidence (including this) that video games lower violent and/or criminal tendencies, because they allow a harmless outlet for such tendencies.

It verges from the sublime to the ridiculote

Silly-Girl-2016.png Silly-Girl-2017.png bbbadge2018.jpg

New to Forumpool? You can introduce yourself here

5 August 2019
9.34pm
Wigwam
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1875
Member Since:
17 October 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2325sp_Permalink sp_Print

Beatlebug said
I've actually heard a considerable amount of evidence (including this) that video games lower violent and/or criminal tendencies, because they allow a harmless outlet for such tendencies.

  

Unsure if they reduce aggression or not but you're probably right in as much as the video games often blamed are everywhere in the world whereas the mass shootings are not.

Only way we could tell which way round it is would be to clone The US' gun prevalence into another equally country hooked on these games.

 

I really don't have a clue what the solution is.......??...

 

One thing for sure is that 'when the dog bites, when the bee stings...when you're feeling sad'......Many find solace in blaming Trump as though these shootings never happened before he was president.

The following people thank Wigwam for this post:

Beatlebug, The Hole Got Fixed
5 August 2019
9.58pm
Avatar
The Hole Got Fixed
A Dock at Southampton
Moderator

Moderators
Forum Posts: 6978
Member Since:
27 November 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2326sp_Permalink sp_Print

Just found this, and it's already out of date. The US is actually at 254 already. 

It's not just about the second amendment. I do think there is a toxic culture brewing in the US, thanks to white supremacy. I think that is the  cause of where a lot of the gun violence is coming from, something that exists much less in other places.

FB_IMG_1565060172024.jpgImage Enlarger

The following people thank The Hole Got Fixed for this post:

ScarlettFieldsForever, Dark Overlord

Oh, by the way, this post was made by The Hole Got Fixed!

2016 awards: Username-Badge.png 2017 awards: The-Hole-Got-Fixed-2017.png 2018 awards:The-Hole-Got-Fixed-2018.png

6 August 2019
7.07am
Avatar
Dark Overlord
Nowhere Land
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4009
Member Since:
9 March 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2327sp_Permalink sp_Print

Those statistics are definitely a cause for concern, especially considering that 4 of those 7 non-US shootings took place around bordering countries and the one at Christchurch was clearly influenced by American politicians. However, i noticed that the Dayton shooter was left-wing, which would go against your suggestion that white supremacy is entirely to blame.

*A mass shooting is defined as a shooting where at least 4 people are shot, no one has to die for it to be considered a mass shooting.

The following people thank Dark Overlord for this post:

Beatlebug

If you're reading this, you are looking for something to do.

6 August 2019
7.35am
Avatar
Ron Nasty
Apple rooftop
Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 9787
Member Since:
17 December 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

@The Hole Got Fixed didn't say "that white supremacy is entirely to blame," @Dark Overlord. Holey said, "I think that is the cause of where a lot of the gun violence is coming from."

There is certainly no-doubt that white supremacist attacks are on the rise in the US, which is disturbing enough in itself.

And while the El Paso shooting was definitely political, with the Daytona shooter having a long history of mental illness, and having shot his sister, that seems likely another person who shouldn't have had access to guns but was allowed to under the American system.

The following people thank Ron Nasty for this post:

Beatlebug, The Hole Got Fixed, vonbontee

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

 

The Beatles Non-Canon Poll List

6 August 2019
10.29am
Avatar
50yearslate
Playing on the roofs again
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 7539
Member Since:
15 November 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2329sp_Permalink sp_Print

The Hole Got Fixed said
Just found this, and it's already out of date. The US is actually at 254 already. 

It's not just about the second amendment. I do think there is a toxic culture brewing in the US, thanks to white supremacy. I think that is the  cause of where a lot of the gun violence is coming from, something that exists much less in other places.

FB_IMG_1565060172024.jpgImage Enlarger

  

I am ashamed to be an American.

The following people thank 50yearslate for this post:

The Hole Got Fixed

Love one another.

- - -

(I'm Fiddy, not Walrian)

- - -

IMG_3980.PNG

6 August 2019
6.37pm
Wigwam
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1875
Member Since:
17 October 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2330sp_Permalink sp_Print

50yearslate said

I am ashamed to be an American.

  

Despite the bleating of the liberal left you shouldn't be ashamed of being an American......Although you're free to be...You shouldn't be (and here's the rub) precisely because you're free to be.

No country is without stain.

 

Anyway without America there's be no Beatles.....We'd still be singing 'Greensleves'

The following people thank Wigwam for this post:

Beatlebug, Beatlebug
6 August 2019
7.16pm
Avatar
Ron Nasty
Apple rooftop
Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 9787
Member Since:
17 December 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2331sp_Permalink sp_Print

Are you suggesting that the radical right are proud that the US are smashing the competition for mass shootings, @Wigwam?

a-hard-days-night-george-10

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

 

The Beatles Non-Canon Poll List

6 August 2019
7.38pm
Avatar
Beatlebug
Find me where ye echo lays
Moderator

Moderators
Forum Posts: 15313
Member Since:
15 February 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

One small correction to make, @Wigwam. Not the 'liberal left', they're not liberal at all -- the 'illiberal' or 'regressive' left. Quite different from the actual liberal left, which seems to be the silent/exhausted majority.

I'll always be proud to be an American, and I'll always be the first to admit when we've got problems. mccartney-shrug_01_gif

It verges from the sublime to the ridiculote

Silly-Girl-2016.png Silly-Girl-2017.png bbbadge2018.jpg

New to Forumpool? You can introduce yourself here

6 August 2019
7.46pm
Wigwam
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1875
Member Since:
17 October 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2333sp_Permalink sp_Print

Ron Nasty said
Are you suggesting that the radical right are proud that the US are smashing the competition for mass shootings, @Wigwam?

a-hard-days-night-george-10

  

No....You are

6 August 2019
8.06pm
Avatar
Ron Nasty
Apple rooftop
Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 9787
Member Since:
17 December 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2334sp_Permalink sp_Print

No, @Wigwam, I'm suggesting that wherever Americans sit on the political spectrum, and whatever their views on gun laws, very few Americans would say the mass shootings make them proud to be American.

The following people thank Ron Nasty for this post:

Beatlebug, 50yearslate

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

 

The Beatles Non-Canon Poll List

6 August 2019
8.10pm
Wigwam
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1875
Member Since:
17 October 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2335sp_Permalink sp_Print

Beatlebug said
One small correction to make, @Wigwam. Not the 'liberal left' - the 'illiberal' or 'regressive' left. Quite different from the actual liberal left, which seems to be the silent/exhausted majority.

I'll always be proud to be an American, and I'll always be the first to admit when we've got problems. mccartney-shrug_01_gif

  

I'll accept the correction.....But...

The illiberal regressive left call themselves liberals...And claim that banner.....So it gets confusing.

Every country has problems.......But ask yourself have you ever met a white supremest.........I doubt that there are many that actually ascribe themselves to that belief .......Out of a population of 330 million you'd struggle to fill a small college stadium. 

The US today is intermarried and it seems to me sublimely tolerant of race and sexuality.........An example to the world. You should all be proud of that.

America was born out of that basically British civil war that you call the War of Independence and immediately adopted the mantle of American exceptionalism. Philadelphia was for a time the hub of the civilised world...Philosophically and in political thought the greatest thinkers flocked there.

Tear down their statues, bescumber their portraits and murals by all means but consider the Orwellian peril.

 “He who controls the past, controls the future; and he who controls the present, controls the past.” 

Ask yourself 'Why do the illiberal regressive left want you to hate yourselves?'

The following people thank Wigwam for this post:

Beatlebug
6 August 2019
8.12pm
Wigwam
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1875
Member Since:
17 October 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2336sp_Permalink sp_Print

Ron Nasty said
No, @Wigwam, I'm suggesting that wherever Americans sit on the political spectrum, and whatever their views on gun laws, very few Americans would say the mass shootings make them proud to be American.

  

I'd agree with that statement......Not with the earlier suggestion.

6 August 2019
8.35pm
Avatar
Ron Nasty
Apple rooftop
Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 9787
Member Since:
17 December 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2337sp_Permalink sp_Print

@Wigwam said
The US today is intermarried and it seems to me sublimely tolerant of race and sexuality...

Wow! You must be watching a different channel to me because what I see is a country with huge racial tensions, with racially divisive language regularly used by the President, which much of his base support, along with wanting many of the gains made by the LGBTQ+ community reversed... If he gets Roe vs. Wade reversed by his Supreme Court, same-sex marriage will be his next battle-cry...

The following people thank Ron Nasty for this post:

The Hole Got Fixed, 50yearslate, ScarlettFieldsForever

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

 

The Beatles Non-Canon Poll List

6 August 2019
9.29pm
Avatar
Beatlebug
Find me where ye echo lays
Moderator

Moderators
Forum Posts: 15313
Member Since:
15 February 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2338sp_Permalink sp_Print

Ron Nasty said

@Wigwam said
The US today is intermarried and it seems to me sublimely tolerant of race and sexuality...

Wow! You must be watching a different channel to me. . . 

I'm sure you are. a-hard-days-night-paul-7

The following people thank Beatlebug for this post:

Wigwam

It verges from the sublime to the ridiculote

Silly-Girl-2016.png Silly-Girl-2017.png bbbadge2018.jpg

New to Forumpool? You can introduce yourself here

6 August 2019
9.57pm
Avatar
50yearslate
Playing on the roofs again
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 7539
Member Since:
15 November 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2339sp_Permalink sp_Print

Wigwam said

50yearslate said

I am ashamed to be an American.

  

Despite the bleating of the liberal left you shouldn't be ashamed of being an American......Although you're free to be...You shouldn't be (and here's the rub) precisely because you're free to be.

No country is without stain.

 

Anyway without America there's be no Beatles.....We'd still be singing 'Greensleves'

  

I’m confused. Are you telling me not to be ashamed, or reminding me that I am free to be ashamed? 

@Wigwam said

The US today is intermarried and it seems to me sublimely tolerant of race and sexuality...

 

  

Remind me how you know this and what makes you think it’s true? If the US was ‘sublimely tolerant of race and sexuality’ we’d have a significant drop in the numbers of hate crimes and controversy over civil rights laws, wouldn’t we? Not to mention the fact that our president would never have even been considered for election...

The following people thank 50yearslate for this post:

ScarlettFieldsForever, The Hole Got Fixed

Love one another.

- - -

(I'm Fiddy, not Walrian)

- - -

IMG_3980.PNG

6 August 2019
11.01pm
Wigwam
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1875
Member Since:
17 October 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Here's a useful statistical breakdown on 'Hate Crime' over the last couple of decades......

https://ucr.fbi.gov/hate-crime

 

In 2016 about 7,106 hate crimes reported in the US......The headlines scream 'rise in hate crimes in 2017'.......The rise was to about 7,125.

I agree if you watch most networks and read most newspapers the perception is that Hate crime, because they talk in percentages without revealing the total numbers is massively on the rise.....Figures for these years show it isn't.

But up to you what conclusions you draw from the figures.....

As to your confusion.........If you feel the country's collective conscience should feel shame I'm saying you're free to.

Personally I take responsibility for my own actions.......I can't fix other people.

 

As for Trump's election victory?.......It may be that his voters are deplorables and bad people. I got the feeling however, that Americans were fed-up with politicians who campaign in poetry and govern in prose and weasel words. 

Again you're free to your view.

But without categorising me as a deplorable ........or deficient mentally and morally........ allow me to hold if I may a different view. Diversity of thought is perhaps more of a litmus test of what it means to be living in a truly free country than almost anything else.......

The following people thank Wigwam for this post:

Beatlebug
Forum Timezone: America/Chicago
Most Users Ever Online: 700
Currently Online: William Shears Campbell, CakeMaestor
1
Guest(s)
Top Posters:
Starr Shine?: 15584
Ron Nasty: 9787
Necko: 7856
50yearslate: 7537
parlance: 7111
mr. Sun king coming together: 6403
AppleScruffJunior: 6375
Mr. Kite: 6147
trcanberra: 6061
mithveaen: 4621
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 87
Members: 2736
Moderators: 6
Admins: 2
Forum Stats:
Groups: 3
Forums: 44
Topics: 4771
Posts: 328989
Newest Members:
HereThereAndEverywhere_1, wadawano, Hiram@123, Jimmie K, youknowwhattodo
Moderators: Joe: 5061, Zig: 9807, meanmistermustard: 22278, Ahhh Girl: 18419, Beatlebug: 15313, The Hole Got Fixed: 6978
Administrators: Joe: 5061, Ellie: 4