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I read the news today (oh boy) - Current world events
20 March 2019
5.31pm
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QuarryMan
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PurplishRain said
I don't want to stir anyone up, but the Michael Jackson accusations are making me sad. I feel sad and i feel angry that i was dupped by him

  

Me too. I've heard a lot of people try to defend him (as if they'd know any better than the accusers) but their efforts are pretty futile since it's well documented that he liked to sleep in a bed with young kids anyway, and openly spoke about this, so it's not a reach at all to believe the accusers, and that in itself is creepy as hell and morally wrong. I feel so sorry for those kids, since even if it isn't true (which it probably is) their notions of intimacy and boundaries will have been seriously warped in their future relationships. 

I've not stopped listening to his music though, which I'm struggling to justify to myself. I guess I'm just seeing it as him getting weirder and more screwed up in the head as he got older into his thirties and forties, which is when he started all this weird behaviour. I mostly listen to the Off The Wall and Thriller era anyway.

Tall, dark-haired QuarryMan likes basketball, music, and naturally, boys. He was a valuable participant on the track team. He is one of Freeport's great contributors to the recording world. As for the immediate future, QuarryMan has no plans, but will take life as it comes. 

 

20 March 2019
6.39pm
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Dark Overlord
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Woah, not cool.

Don't get me wrong, he probably did those things to those kids and if he did he deserves the hate and criticism he gets but on the off chance that these people lied about it, they're the bad guys, not Michael.

False rape accusations are a serious issue that can easily ruin an innocent man's life and those that file them are horrible people that should serve hard time, so to suggest that these horrible people are actually victims who will have their notions of intimacy and boundaries seriously warped in their future relationships makes me sick.

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20 March 2019
8.17pm
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Dark Overlord said
Woah, not cool.

Don't get me wrong, he probably did those things to those kids and if he did he deserves the hate and criticism he gets but on the off chance that these people lied about it, they're the bad guys, not Michael.

False rape accusations are a serious issue that can easily ruin an innocent man's life and those that file them are horrible people that should serve hard time, so to suggest that these horrible people are actually victims who will have their notions of intimacy and boundaries seriously warped in their future relationships makes me sick.

  

i just can't take Michael's side on this right now. Either way It's a lose-lose situation. But if he didn't, you can't deny that he did do somethings that didn't make him look all that great. (Hanging around the kids, sleeping in the same bed, etc. . .) I understand that he had Peter Pan syndrome but it's still very sketchy.  I'm just glad that Prince never did anything to put him in the face of accusations like this

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20 March 2019
9.19pm
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If you enjoy his music, then by all means continue to listen to it. You can separate the art from the artist. mccartney-shrug_01_gif

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21 March 2019
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Dark Overlord said
Woah, not cool.

Don't get me wrong, he probably did those things to those kids and if he did he deserves the hate and criticism he gets but on the off chance that these people lied about it, they're the bad guys, not Michael.

False rape accusations are a serious issue that can easily ruin an innocent man's life and those that file them are horrible people that should serve hard time, so to suggest that these horrible people are actually victims who will have their notions of intimacy and boundaries seriously warped in their future relationships makes me sick.

  

Yeah, absolutely, but the fact still remains: he was a grown man and he chose to sleep in a bed night after night with vulnerable kids. That's not okay. And yes those kids would still be victims, since even if the allegations aren't true, to be subjected to that by a grown ass man is some creepy and predatory stuff anyway, and it bewilders me how it was ever even allowed in the first place.

In that unlikely scenario, both camps would be bad guys, because they'd have accused Jackson of having done a horrible thing he hadn't, but even the base level of what we know he did do is still really wrongful.

I'm not just talking about the guys in the documentary either (when I talk about them being victims and having probably permanent damage done to their mental health), I'm talking about all the kids he used to sleep in the bed with over the years, which was quite a few.

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22 March 2019
1.58am
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Well, May's got her extension.

Let's hope she can use it to some effect.

Oh, by the way, this post was made by The Hole Got Fixed!

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22 March 2019
7.23am
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She didn't exactly get what she wanted, @The Hole Got Fixed.

She wanted until the end of June, instead getting until 22 May if she can get her deal through on Meaningful Vote 3 next week (provided the Speaker allows MV3); if she cannot get her deal through, the extension is just a couple of weeks, until the 12 April, for us to come up with a way forward.

The signs on her getting her deal through still make it look highly unlikely it will pass, especially after her outbursts on Wednesday alienated many of the MPs she needs to get on side, which makes it look like all she's got is until 12 April.

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22 March 2019
8.50am
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Accusations about Michael Jackson came out decades ago, he paid off accusers parents and admitted he slept in the beds of kids, often with the parents in the house at the time. The only real case for his defence is that in court he was cleared.

I therefore fail to see why this is different;  accusations have re-emerged yet he hasn’t been found guilty. If the previous time didn’t put you off then why is this time different?

 

Would I stop listening to his music if he was found to be guilty? No idea. Most of it I find to be garbage anyway. I could live with never hearing ‘Thriller’ or ‘Beat It’ again and those are decent songs. 

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22 March 2019
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Re Brexit; haven’t we all lost the will to care yet? The ongoing farce is as slow, farcical, badly planned, handled and and drawn out as Paul’s Archive collection releases. 

MPs get to vote on May’s deal for third time, with little change from the first two, if any. Aside from her stubborn determination to follow/force it thru and fear of not having anything else to show for over two years of ineptitude, is there much to now vote yes instead of hell, no like the past two. No idea if true but I have read reports on possible financial incentives and reassurances for the DUP to vote yes this time, however, so who knows.

Most amusing development is May blaming every other MP for being where we are whilst assuring us she is on our side. Given most oppose her deal and would like to see her sacked or resign, such a sentiment is delusion. But then she’s been deluded, deaf and stubborn for months so it all fits.

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22 March 2019
9.35am
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Though sinces he's dead cant do much bout it. 

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22 March 2019
3.56pm
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Ah. I only heard that she got an extension, I didn't realise it was so short.

So basically Britain is completely stuffed, then?

Oh, by the way, this post was made by The Hole Got Fixed!

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22 March 2019
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It seems so. I can't see a way out of it, but hopefully one will reveal itself sometime soon. 

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26 March 2019
9.17pm
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Ron Nasty
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@AppleScruffJunior said in the Beatles News thread
(in response to the news that Paul had reacted to accusations against Michael Jackson)

I haven't posted in well over a week (closer to 2 weeks) so of course it's an MJ comment that brings me back.
Robson and Safechuck's allegations are as baseless as could possibly be. The "documentary" 'Leaving Neverland' is completely emotionally-manipulative and if your sole source of identifying Jackson as a paedophile is LN, then you need to look at Robson's continuous changing his first alleged-sexual encounter with Jackson (I believe we're on 4 different retellings since 2013), his constant support of Jackson until 2013, and profiting from him*, suddenly remembering this horrific molestation he has allegedly undergone once he had been refused a job by Cirque de Soleil for Jackson's 'One' show in Vegas.
He was ordered to produce his diary entries in his deposition where he wrote “my story of abuse and its effects will make me relatable/relevant” (page 66), and he wrote, “it’s time for me to get mine!”, and refused to explain what he meant, when questioned under oath.

Safechuck is less in the public-eye, being he isn’t really a showbiz person unlike Robson. However, he has also lied. He claimed in LN that he was asked to testify for Jackson’s defence “towards the end of the trial”, yet he refused to do so, despite the fact Robson was never asked to testify, and was literally banned from doing so because he was not one of the select named children that the Judge ruled (long before the trial started, may I add) may testify.

Both Safechuck and Robson have said they don’t care about money and are only suing the Jackson estate to give courage to other abuse victims by holding the Jackson estate responsible. Well, the lawsuit was originally filed under seal, which would make it not a matter of public record, and Robson tried to get a settlement from the estate with zero publicity. It wasn't until the estate refused to pay that he went public with his allegations.

*He sold his items to Julien's Auction who said, "He consigned multiple items and wanted us to sell all items of his that had value.”. If you've seen LN, the last shot is a burning sequin glove and Thriller jacket which the director Dan Reed suggested was "the real deal", it clearly wasn't as he tried to sell everything of value relating to Jackson.

I’m willing to go through Chandler and Arvizo’s cases, and that infamous maid (who ships her lies around to any news station who’ll give her a hunk of cash, like Jackson behaved inappropriately with Brett Barnes and Macauley Culkin who have always vehemently denied any allegations of misconduct by Jackson towards them. She also said in Jackson’s 2005 trial, where he was acquitted on all counts, that she witnessed Culkin and Jackson kissing, and she then “walked off” Culkin later took the stand for the defense and said absolutely nothing inappropriate happened between himself and Jackson.

 

Yes, Jackson did weird things, and no I wouldn't let any children of mine share a room with a 30 year old man who wasn't a relative. But the Leaving Neverland cases are true trial by media. It's unfortunate that so many people just swallow what they see at face value and don't actually look beyond a show that is very carefully edited with 'sad music', and 'scary' music when deemed appropriate by director Dan Reed who has no defense when any comments are raised criticising his work, or trying to seek clarity on events where he has deliberately misled the audience. 

If a person came out about Jackson who didn't have constant contradictory stories or didn't seem to be financially influenced but rather interested in getting justice for sexual assault victims than I would believe them. As of now, there has been no-one who meets that criteria and I don't know if there ever will be. 

It's a shame that Paul like so many others has not done a bit of outside research on who Safechuck and Robson are, and what they've said but I bet €10, we'll be hearing Thriller on the radio at Halloween again.

As a survivor of childhood sexual abuse, denials and inconsistent accounts do not surprise me.

Strong advisory on the following...

I was abused by my father from around the age of eight until the weekend of my sixteenth birthday. Something that has scarred my adult life and made nearly every close relationship, sexual or otherwise, difficult to say the least.

I was in my thirties before I was able to admit to another person what had happened to me, despite there having been suspicions that something was very wrong at the time at times, and being asked directly by social workers, etc., if anything bad was happening.

I lied, always. I got mad, furious, every time the truth was suggested. "Where the fuck do you get off suggesting my Dad might be doing anything like that to me?!!! You're disgusting. He would never. He loves me..." Though I knew he had, and that he would again on my next weekend with Daddy Dearest.

Put me in the witness box a day before I met the person I was finally able to admit to what a disgusting dirty boy I was, what a bad boy I was, and how my Daddy needed to do things like that to me to teach me what good boys do for their Daddy, and I wanted to be a good boy for Daddy, and good boys don't tell, and I would have totally denied it. Threat of jail for perjury? No problem, I'd take that over admitting my deserved shame, earned because I was such a bad boy he'd needed to do those things to be a good parent, to teach me to be a good boy.

I spent so long blocking it all out, pretending nothing like that had ever happened to me, that I still - now in my fifties - find myself remembering details for the first time. The beginning, the first time it happened, I gave different accounts because I was confusing different incidents. It happens, commonly.

It was maybe 6 or 7 years before I found buried deep as it could be what I now think was the first time, and I'm still unsure whether I'm remember it all right, and there are details still punching their way to the surface and leaving me rocking in the corner, huddled and crying.

I am not saying these two are definitely telling the truth but as a survivor, much of the "evidence" you point at is found in a lot of confirmed abuse victims. The (very incomplete) deposition you linked to, I thought he answered the question on the first, and have no idea if the second was returned to later (at the point of the second, the length of the session was pointed out, which rather derailed that bit of the conversation.

Admittedly I didn't look at the videos you linked to. You didn't time-link to the right part of either, and I'm not going to watch, for instance, a video that runs to over two hours to find the little bit that you say proves a point on your side of the argument.

I avoid this as a subject as much as possible because it takes me down dark alleys I try to avoid but, as a survivor, many of the flaws you find in them and their accounts of what they say happened to them, you would find in me and my account.

It doesn't mean I'm lying.

Peace and love, my friend.

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27 March 2019
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I am so sorry, @Ron Nasty , that you had to go through all that. I don't know what to say, I just hope you find some peace with this. All the love from Forumpool heart

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27 March 2019
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No words. @Ron Nasty , I'm so sorry. heart

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27 March 2019
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I am very sorry, @Ron Nasty. Thank you for having the courage to post on this subject. heart

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27 March 2019
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Von Bontee
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My god, that's awful. Sorry you had to deal with that, Ron.  heart

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27 March 2019
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Apparently Theresa May is planning to resign if MPs vote for her deal

Tall, dark-haired QuarryMan likes basketball, music, and naturally, boys. He was a valuable participant on the track team. He is one of Freeport's great contributors to the recording world. As for the immediate future, QuarryMan has no plans, but will take life as it comes. 

 

27 March 2019
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No one should ever go through that. No words, except for heart, and a lot of it, RN. 

 

Re. Brexit: I doubt that will persuade enough MPs. 

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27 March 2019
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So.

If MP's vote for the deal no one wants then Mrs May will go, which most Conservatives want, so it's more of a helping shove (some may call it blackmail) to get it thru. But the DUP have said they will still vote no chance in hell due to the backdrop so that deal is dead yet leaves Mrs May and the Tories god knows where. May wants out, everyone wants her out, yet she wants her deal thru and will only force that thru before she goes but doesn't have the majority votes needed to do so.

All 8 alternative options have all been defeated.

And to top it all, Mr Bercow won't even let the vote on May's deal happen unless it changes so May has to find a way to get it passed a massive barrier. A vote she looks almost certain to lose if she gets it thru.

So, basically.

Everyone wants to do something yet no one can agree on what they want to do to the point of a voting consensus. 

This is never going to end, those in charge are incapable of going anywhere, and the entire UK is entirely fucked. 

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