Please consider registering
Guest
sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_Feed sp_TopicIcon
I read the news today (oh boy) - Current world events
21 January 2019
6.16pm
Wigwam
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1631
Member Since:
17 October 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2041sp_Permalink sp_Print

QuarryMan said
Interesting video @Wigwam . Just goes to show that not every issue is as transparent as it might first appear.

I have little sympathy for either the MAGA hat wearing kids or the Israelites, since both were acting in a pretty antagonistic way. Quite sad that mr Phillip's song, which was seemingly welcomed at first by the kids, turned into a confrontation with some chanting 'build the wall' while that one kid faced him off with that horrible smirk on his face. 

  

If as is being said today that  'drummer' approached and stood in smirker's face and smirker merely stood his ground then the abuse smirker has received I believe is very unfair.

No apologies for posting this excellent Thai Advertisement  again........

Should be seen by as many as possible.

The following people thank Wigwam for this post:

Beatlebug, Ms. Lane
22 January 2019
10.44am
Avatar
QuarryMan
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 2402
Member Since:
26 January 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2042sp_Permalink sp_Print

I wouldn't be so sure. That isn't the face of someone scared, or someone trying to stand their ground. The kid knew he was being filmed and knew the way those around him were antagonising Mr. Phillips. 

The following people thank QuarryMan for this post:

The Hole Got Fixed, Ms. Lane

Tall, dark-haired QuarryMan likes basketball, music, and naturally, boys. He was a valuable participant on the track team. He is one of Freeport's great contributors to the recording world. As for the immediate future, QuarryMan has no plans, but will take life as it comes. 

 

23 January 2019
11.12am
Avatar
Beatlebug
Find me where ye echo lays
Moderator

Moderators
Forum Posts: 15059
Member Since:
15 February 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Okay, so I watched both videos, and I honestly can't see what all the fuss is about...

What went on between the old man and the young one seemed to me like a distinct lack of communication in what had become a tense situation (thanks primarily to the Black Israelites), but I definitely wouldn't have called it racist in any way. It wasn't even that aggressive compared to what else was going on. (The Black Israelites were the ones being racist and aggressive.) I mean, it was rutabaga-quality cell-phone video, for heaven's sake -- you can believe you see what you want to see in the young man's expression, but no one can know for certain what was going on there -- least of all the participants themselves... I think it was just some silly happening which wouldn't even be a big deal if it weren't for the overly inflammatory nature of the Internet these dayses.

This is nothing to do with politics, it's just how I perceived the situation. *prepares to get shot down*

The following people thank Beatlebug for this post:

Ms. Lane

It verges from the sublime to the ridiculote

Silly-Girl-2016.png Silly-Girl-2017.png bbbadge2018.jpg

New to Forumpool? You can introduce yourself here

23 January 2019
12.31pm
Avatar
vonbontee
Inside an Apple Orchard in a Letterbox
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 3976
Member Since:
1 December 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2044sp_Permalink sp_Print

Beatlebug, unfortunately, the fact that those boys made an extra effort to wear their MAGA hats and shirts to a trip to DC makes it political.

Someone said 'What were you gonna do when it's all finished,' and I said 'I don't know but it'd be good fun being a DJ.' And since then I've become a DJ, only by word of mouth, you know. SO any minute now you'll read, 'Ringo leaves to become a DJ' but it's not true. - Ringo Starr

                     Von-Bontee-2017.png

23 January 2019
1.35pm
Avatar
Beatlebug
Find me where ye echo lays
Moderator

Moderators
Forum Posts: 15059
Member Since:
15 February 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2045sp_Permalink sp_Print

First of all, you misread my post. What I was saying was that my take on events had nothing to do with my political biases, it was just how I saw things.

Second of all, why the hell would they not want to wear their MAGA hats and shirts to DC? If I were a staunch Trump supporter and I went to visit the Capital City, I'd probably do the same. Kind of like wearing my Pink Floyd shirt to the Roger Waters concert, except with a greater chance of getting verbally abused on the street. (Good times.) mccartney-shrug_01_gif

The following people thank Beatlebug for this post:

Ms. Lane, vonbontee

It verges from the sublime to the ridiculote

Silly-Girl-2016.png Silly-Girl-2017.png bbbadge2018.jpg

New to Forumpool? You can introduce yourself here

23 January 2019
7.47pm
Wigwam
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1631
Member Since:
17 October 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

QuarryMan said
Interesting video @Wigwam . Just goes to show that not every issue is as transparent as it might first appear.

I have little sympathy for either the MAGA hat wearing kids or the Israelites, since both were acting in a pretty antagonistic way. Quite sad that mr Phillip's song, which was seemingly welcomed at first by the kids, turned into a confrontation with some chanting 'build the wall' while that one kid faced him off with that horrible smirk on his face. 

  

AppleScruffJunior said
^The Germans have a great word for that 14 year old edge lord and his sickly grin "Backpfeifengesicht"- a face that needs a smack.

  

George Orwell also had a word for that in 1984....'Face crime' it was called...A simple facial tick or the wrong expression could get you carted away.

Mr Phillips (who wasn't surrounded he marched right at the group).....says when he returned from Vietnam he was spat upon....... Disgraceful .........especially as he  never served in Vietnam.

But doesn't matter. The crime of wearing a MAGA, hat being white, Catholic, pro-life  and a male is enough to rush to a lynching ......... 

 

Consider the difference if the children had been black and they were being approached by a rhinestone cowboy singing "take me Home Country Road'......

The following people thank Wigwam for this post:

Beatlebug
24 January 2019
5.43pm
Avatar
vonbontee
Inside an Apple Orchard in a Letterbox
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 3976
Member Since:
1 December 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

But doesn't matter. The crime of wearing a MAGA, hat being white, Catholic, pro-life  and a male is enough to rush to a lynching ......... 

  

Yes, because Nick Sandman was *literally* dragged away and murdered by an angry mob.

And sorry, I'm not sure I fully understand your Rhinestone Cowboy analogy.

The following people thank vonbontee for this post:

50yearslate

Someone said 'What were you gonna do when it's all finished,' and I said 'I don't know but it'd be good fun being a DJ.' And since then I've become a DJ, only by word of mouth, you know. SO any minute now you'll read, 'Ringo leaves to become a DJ' but it's not true. - Ringo Starr

                     Von-Bontee-2017.png

24 January 2019
10.43pm
Wigwam
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1631
Member Since:
17 October 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

vonbontee said

But doesn't matter. The crime of wearing a MAGA, hat being white, Catholic, pro-life  and a male is enough to rush to a lynching ......... 

  

Yes, because Nick Sandman was *literally* dragged away and murdered by an angry mob.

And sorry, I'm not sure I fully understand your Rhinestone Cowboy analogy.

  

He was threatened with violence, he was searched out.....his family and others with the same name, same town called up threatened with death threats, there's a long list......Even some Disney corporation mogul rushed to outdo others, if he couldn't be first he could outdo them by being more extreme, picturing the entire group being put through a wood shredder .............That is disgusting......There's a number of celebs who offered similarly disgusting threats. Each trying to out virtue signal the other in their extremes........have a read...I'm sure you will disapprove to.

Some of it below.

https://www.rt.com/usa/449368-.....maga-kids/

https://www.washingtonpost.com.....c8088b69f9

As for not understanding my reversed colour, reversed places analogy.......Employ logic and empathy.....Then consider which group is being privileged here.

I'll give you enough credit to believe you've already gotten there, and are just being deliberately obtuse. You might disagree that's fine....You can say my analogy is crazy...... I won't be offended........But just say why!

Understanding, as I'm sure you do your avatar that's based on a painting by Magritte will help, 'the conflict between the visible that is hidden and the visible that is present'...... partially applies here too.

..........The 30 second visible clip that people pounced on and are loathe to reassess now that the 'present visible no longer hides the hidden visible.' 

For me...

I feel sorry for these kids who did nothing wrong, but were tried, convicted and lynched.....(look up metaphor).

Magritte's picture is called "The Son Of Man'......For better and sometimes worse we are all that......

 

 

The following people thank Wigwam for this post:

Beatlebug
24 January 2019
10.48pm
Avatar
The Hole Got Fixed
A Dock at Southampton
Moderator

Moderators
Forum Posts: 6791
Member Since:
27 November 2016
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
2049sp_Permalink sp_Print

Wigwam said
I feel sorry for these kids who did nothing wrong, but were tried, convicted and lynched.....(look up metaphor).

  

Well, if they subscribe to the same thing that pretty much the rest of the world subscribes to (treat others the way you want to be treated), then I suppose they're not doing anything wrong if they want to be treated like shit.

So if you think their actions were right, you can't say that their punishment is wrong. They treated someone like shit, they deserve to be treated like shit.

 

But really, peace and love guys, that's what the world needs.

The following people thank The Hole Got Fixed for this post:

50yearslate

Oh, by the way, this post was made by The Hole Got Fixed!

2016 awards: Username-Badge.png 2017 awards: The-Hole-Got-Fixed-2017.png 2018 awards:The-Hole-Got-Fixed-2018.png

24 January 2019
10.52pm
Wigwam
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1631
Member Since:
17 October 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2050sp_Permalink sp_Print

The Hole Got Fixed said

Wigwam said

I feel sorry for these kids who did nothing wrong, but were tried, convicted and lynched.....(look up metaphor).

  

Well, if they subscribe to the same thing that pretty much the rest of the world subscribes to (treat others the way you want to be treated), then I suppose they're not doing anything wrong if they want to be treated like shit.

So if you think their actions were right, you can't say that their punishment is wrong. They treated someone like shit, they deserve to be treated like shit.

 

But really, peace and love guys, that's what the world needs.

  

And that's what you example here?

24 January 2019
10.59pm
Avatar
The Hole Got Fixed
A Dock at Southampton
Moderator

Moderators
Forum Posts: 6791
Member Since:
27 November 2016
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
2051sp_Permalink sp_Print

Wigwam said
And that's what you example here?

I'm sorry I don't understand that sentence and can't infer what you mean by that.

Oh, by the way, this post was made by The Hole Got Fixed!

2016 awards: Username-Badge.png 2017 awards: The-Hole-Got-Fixed-2017.png 2018 awards:The-Hole-Got-Fixed-2018.png

25 January 2019
2.59am
Avatar
vonbontee
Inside an Apple Orchard in a Letterbox
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 3976
Member Since:
1 December 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2052sp_Permalink sp_Print

I understand *metaphor* fine, Atlas, I'm questioning your word choice. "Lynching" as in "public internet shaming of a white kid"...I just don't see how using that particular cliche is helpful here, unless you're being ironic, since traditional lynching involved the white people being the perpetrators, rather than the recipients.  

Death threats, threats of violence, these are serious things and should be investigated. The kid doesn't deserve that at all, no kid does, this shouldn't need to be said. There are some really awful people out there, who knew? (Like those Black Hebrews - buncha jerks!) 

And no, sorry; I'm not trying to be obtuse. Your analogy isn't easy for me to parse: Are the black kids wearing MAGA hats? If so, why? And even with that answered, I can't possibly imagine how they'd react to a white guy in rhinestones singing John Denver. (Laugh? Ignore him?)

The following people thank vonbontee for this post:

Wigwam

Someone said 'What were you gonna do when it's all finished,' and I said 'I don't know but it'd be good fun being a DJ.' And since then I've become a DJ, only by word of mouth, you know. SO any minute now you'll read, 'Ringo leaves to become a DJ' but it's not true. - Ringo Starr

                     Von-Bontee-2017.png

25 January 2019
3.30am
Wigwam
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1631
Member Since:
17 October 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2053sp_Permalink sp_Print

Wigwam said

The Hole Got Fixed said

Wigwam said

I feel sorry for these kids who did nothing wrong, but were tried, convicted and lynched.....(look up metaphor).

  

Well, if they subscribe to the same thing that pretty much the rest of the world subscribes to (treat others the way you want to be treated), then I suppose they're not doing anything wrong if they want to be treated like shit.

So if you think their actions were right, you can't say that their punishment is wrong. They treated someone like shit, they deserve to be treated like shit.

 

But really, peace and love guys, that's what the world needs.

  

And that's what you example here?

  

Do you think your post, especially the part I've highlighted, "They treated someone like shit, they deserve to be treated like shit." echos the meaning of your last sentence........'But really, peace and love guys, that's what the world needs.'

Call me old fashioned but to me they seem to jar.....? Hopefully you get my gist.. 

Apart from that........The video footage I've watched proves to me that the boys didn't treat Mr Phillips, or the 'cracker' calling Black Israelite racists, 'like shit'

The 5 black racists were goading and insulting the boys, particularly a black student anongst the school group.......The boys did not respond in any way other than with the school sport's chant.

Mr Phillips got in the boy's space, banging his drum right in a young child's face. I'm not saying he treated the boy like shit....but he was the aggressor. The boy only stood his ground and smiled.

Can you point out to me where he treated Mr Phillips 'like shit'......If not you really should consider retracting that accusation.   

The following people thank Wigwam for this post:

Beatlebug
25 January 2019
3.56am
Wigwam
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1631
Member Since:
17 October 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

vonbontee said
I understand *metaphor* fine, Atlas, I'm questioning your word choice. "Lynching" as in "public internet shaming of a white kid"...I just don't see how using that particular cliche is helpful here, unless you're being ironic, since traditional lynching involved the white people being the perpetrators, rather than the recipients.  

Death threats, threats of violence, these are serious things and should be investigated. The kid doesn't deserve that at all, no kid does, this shouldn't need to be said. There are some really awful people out there, who knew? (Like those Black Hebrews - buncha jerks!) 

And no, sorry; I'm not trying to be obtuse. Your analogy isn't easy for me to parse: Are the black kids wearing MAGA hats? If so, why? And even with that answered, I can't possibly imagine how they'd react to a white guy in rhinestones singing John Denver. (Laugh? Ignore him?)

  

metaphor...
 
noun
   
...........a figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to an object or action to which it is not literally applicable.
 
noun Lynching....
 
 
(of a mob) kill (someone), especially by hanging, for an alleged offense with or without a legal trial.
 
 
You say you understand 'metaphors' if so you can see the relationship..metaphorically.... I hope between a real 'lynching' and the events surrounding the the rush to judge, condemn and punish the boy for an offence he wasn't guilty of......You will also see that the reason I doubted you truly understood metaphors was because you scoffed: "Yes, because Nick Sandman was *literally* dragged away and murdered by an angry mob'. You can understand how that response  would suggest to me you didn't at that time understand I was speaking metaphorically.
 
I used the word lynching not directly as an example of irony....(though you're right it is that too), but more as an 'image' a reference point to past events, sparked more by rumour, or half truths, than the considered facts........ And the herd's clamouring for retribution, not allowing time for the facts to come out......and an innocent led to a tree...... or a guillotine. 
 
If my son, by merely standing his ground had been treated that way by the hating virtue signalling herd I would have been F****** furious. I would have sued every single one of the 'herd' 
 
I hate unfairness ........And coming to the bully's defence like we've seen here has been very, VERY unfair to those kids.......
 
Perhaps the example of a country-and-western singer approaching a group of native Americans or black students,  and  getting right into a young, passive black boy's smiling  face was a poor one.......But I think you know if that had been the case where the balance of sympathy would lie.
 
Cheers.
 
 
 
 
 
 
25 January 2019
6.31am
Avatar
Dark Overlord
Nowhere Land
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 3891
Member Since:
9 March 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2055sp_Permalink sp_Print

I disagree with what Nick Sandman did, but i definitely agree with you that the violence and death threats were wrong as well.

But i'd like to point out that conservatives do the same thing and when they do it, it's often far worse. Take the Sandy Hook shootings for example, a bunch of conservatives decided to harass and even threaten the parents who's children died in the shooting (like as if they didn't have enough grief) because Alex Jones said it was fake and people took him seriously.

If you're reading this, you are looking for something to do.

25 January 2019
8.51am
Wigwam
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1631
Member Since:
17 October 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2056sp_Permalink sp_Print

I've just read something of the aftermath to Sandy Hook I knew nothing about it............Wow words fail me. These people really should be tried in a court and if found guilty of such nasty harassment they should suffer the full force of the law. Sick. Those poor parents. Shocking!

 

But again.......You say..

"I disagree with what Nick Sandman did, but i definitely agree with you that the violence and death threats were wrong as well.

 

I really appreciate that you're trying to be impartial.....But what did this young boy do that by any measure the death threats balanced out. "Wrong as well' ....as well as what? I didn't see that he did anything wrong.......He stood his ground and smiled, (smirked if you prefer), through a drum being bashed in his face, by some toothless old man with an agenda who'd invaded his personal space........

That's all that happened.......The old guy with the drum didn't do anymore than advance on the kid and bang a drum in his face....The kid didn't do anymore than stand still and smile. End of! Or should have been.

The threats of violence, the shaming slurs, the death threats were out of all proportion to anything that occurred.........There isn't any equivalence.

Now that a fuller picture has emerged I'd have thought the haters would just held their hands up and said, 'sorry, I was hasty.' Or 'I was misled, the optics were bad'............But I've read some of the retractions and they aren't retractions at all......

Ah well..... no point going on and on.

Thanks for your input Dark Lord.

Hope you managed to watch that Thai advert I posted....I reckon it's brilliant. 

Cheers

The following people thank Wigwam for this post:

Beatlebug
25 January 2019
1.37pm
Avatar
Ron Nasty
Apple rooftop
Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 9574
Member Since:
17 December 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

So, Trump has caved, agreeing to reopen the Government for three weeks (until 15 February) without having got his money for his wall, but instead an agreement that Republicans and Democrats will enter discussions on a border security package.

That is as always should have been, policy argued over and debated, rather than forced through with a gun held to the heads of millions of Americans.

Obviously, he'll try to claim that his agreeing to something that's been on the table for weeks is a victory for him.

Of course, tomorrow's newspapers would have had the Roger Stone (close advisor to DT) arrest and charging over the Russia probe on the front page, which will likely get less attention now the Government is to reopen.

The following people thank Ron Nasty for this post:

Dark Overlord, Dark Overlord, 50yearslate, The Hole Got Fixed

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

 

The Beatles Non-Canon Poll List

25 January 2019
1.38pm
Avatar
Dark Overlord
Nowhere Land
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 3891
Member Since:
9 March 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2058sp_Permalink sp_Print

What i was trying to say is that what Nick did was fucked up. However, the threats he received were not justified since hurting people based on their political views is wrong. I'm sorry i gave you the wrong idea, i would never condone that sort of behavior, groups like ANTIFA and the Proud Boys genuinely piss me off.

If you're reading this, you are looking for something to do.

25 January 2019
1.44pm
Avatar
Dark Overlord
Nowhere Land
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 3891
Member Since:
9 March 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2059sp_Permalink sp_Print

That's great @Ron Nasty not as good as Trump just giving up but it's great that these government workers have to suffer any longer. Not to mention, this is a perfect opportunity to get laws changed, maybe we'll agree on building the wall on the condition that marijuana is legalized nationwide or something like that.

If you're reading this, you are looking for something to do.

25 January 2019
2.00pm
Avatar
vonbontee
Inside an Apple Orchard in a Letterbox
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 3976
Member Since:
1 December 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2060sp_Permalink sp_Print

I do appreciate seeing the more complete visual record of the events. It does appear that Sandman may indeed be far less of a jackass than some of his classmates. His isn't necessarily the face that people should forever associate with this incident.

Threats of violence are always awful, no need for you or I to keep emphasizing that. As for the online shame and scorn, he's got a public forum now, so he can either proudly revel in his having triggered the libs, or do some thinking and soul-searching about his role in the events. He's still young, his brain is unformed, his life has just begun, etc. 

The following people thank vonbontee for this post:

Wigwam

Someone said 'What were you gonna do when it's all finished,' and I said 'I don't know but it'd be good fun being a DJ.' And since then I've become a DJ, only by word of mouth, you know. SO any minute now you'll read, 'Ringo leaves to become a DJ' but it's not true. - Ringo Starr

                     Von-Bontee-2017.png

Forum Timezone: America/Chicago
Most Users Ever Online: 597
Currently Online: William Shears Campbell, The Hole Got Fixed, 50yearslate, Jenna L, ThatWeirdBeatlesGirl, Paul McCharmly
1
Guest(s)
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
Starr Shine?: 15566
Ron Nasty: 9574
Necko: 7850
parlance: 7111
50yearslate: 7106
mr. Sun king coming together: 6403
AppleScruffJunior: 6248
Mr. Kite: 6147
trcanberra: 6045
mithveaen: 4621
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 87
Members: 2720
Moderators: 6
Admins: 2
Forum Stats:
Groups: 3
Forums: 44
Topics: 4751
Posts: 325279
Newest Members:
IONEIX HE DIE, SkipsAweiro, martofilo, keith_lannon, saxtell
Moderators: Joe: 5053, Zig: 9807, meanmistermustard: 22178, Ahhh Girl: 18193, Beatlebug: 15058, The Hole Got Fixed: 6789
Administrators: Joe: 5053, Ellie: 4