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I read the news today (oh boy) - Current world events
19 January 2019
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Starr Shine?
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The wall is dumb.

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19 January 2019
5.51pm
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Starr Shine? said
The wall is dumb.

  

Exactly. It's not going to do what we need it to do (lots of stuff would have to happen to solve the immigration issues), and it's not worth fighting over and this government shutdown over. Just build it and be done with it. 

19 January 2019
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a-hard-days-night-ringo-8Or don't build it and be done, that works too... I really don't think a wall is an effective way of dealing with the problems it's supposed to solve.

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19 January 2019
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People will have jobs putting it up...and then taking it down under a new Administration when it is proven ineffective. Job security.

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19 January 2019
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Starr Shine? said
The wall is dumb.

  

All walls are 'dumb'......

An Israeli at the Wailing Wall asked what he prays there for?...He answered, 'World peace and happiness and plenty for all peoples of the world'

And how do you feel after all these years?

'I feel like Ive been talking to a brick wall."

 

I know the feeling......

Question: Even Democrats think the wall already built works......Would you tear it down?...Or if it's working would that be dumb?

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19 January 2019
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50yearslate said
a-hard-days-night-ringo-8Or don't build it and be done, that works too... I really don't think a wall is an effective way of dealing with the problems it's supposed to solve.

  

Build the wall and close the legal loop-holes. Do away with so called sanctuary cities.....Beef up visa scrutiny and ICE.

You need all that to effectively solve the problem...Of all the above the wall is a comparatively straightforward place to start.

But the political will isn't there. Special interest groups who put the politicos of both parties, (apart from Trump), into the House or Senate ....Big business who like cheap labour  ..... and the iniquitous PC thought police, who are always ready to shoot  any brave commonsensical head dared to be  lifted above the parapet.

Add to the mix that the the Dem's think their vote swells with each border crossing, + the hate they feel for Trump, + the fear they have of handing him a win...+ Nancy having to placate the creeping grip of the new, even further left, left wing of her party...All of which outweighs any thoughts of doing the right thing for ordinary citizens.

Ah well.....When a reasoned, fairly thoughtful position can be dismissed with a, 'The wall is dumb' what hope is there?

 

I'm reminded of Arthur Conan Doyle's 

“I am somewhat exhausted; I wonder how a battery feels when it pours electricity into a non-conductor?”

Good luck America.......Sad to see the world's last last hope crumble. 

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19 January 2019
7.29pm
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^ Sí. The wall alone won't work, and there is no will to really fix the system, though I wish there were. Therefore, the wall be ineffective.

Mr. (insert Future Leader's name), tear down this wall.

As I said, jobs galore to build and destroy.

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19 January 2019
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Flush tr*mp. That will solve enough of our problems here in the states

19 January 2019
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The thing is, I don't want the wall, I don't want to give trump the victory, then he can just do this crud any time he doesn't get what he wants. Plus this will boost his voterbase and increase the odds of him winning next election.

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19 January 2019
8.42pm
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Wigwam said

Starr Shine? said

The wall is dumb.

  

All walls are 'dumb'......

An Israeli at the Wailing Wall asked what he prays there for?...He answered, 'World peace and happiness and plenty for all peoples of the world'

And how do you feel after all these years?

'I feel like Ive been talking to a brick wall."

 

I know the feeling......

Question: Even Democrats think the wall already built works......Would you tear it down?...Or if it's working would that be dumb?

This wall has nothing to do with any other. Don't equate them.

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19 January 2019
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Ahhh Girl said
^ Sí. The wall alone won't work, and there is no will to really fix the system, though I wish there were. Therefore, the wall be ineffective.

Mr. (insert Future Leader's name), tear down this wall.

As I said, jobs galore to build and destroy.

  

Or Ms, if we're lucky. You never know...

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19 January 2019
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50yearslate said

Or Ms, if we're lucky. You never know...  

I don't care either way, just please let them be an actual good leader.

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19 January 2019
9.28pm
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a-hard-days-night-ringo-8Good point.

Edit: Whaddaya know, my arrow smiley actually worked! I'm happy now 🙂

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19 January 2019
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@Ahhh Girl post 1988 needs approval before it gets lost...

Between when I said I'd make a post and now quite a few of my thoughts were posted so this will be shorter than I thought.

First: The crap about socialism 'infecting' schools. Obviously as an Australian I have no idea about specifics to do with the American school system, but we are presented the facts in our humanties subjects, and we are left to make up our own minds. It simply appears that millennials and Generation Z are much more empathatic and compassionate than, say, the Baby Boomers. Most of us (and sure, not all of us, I need to make that clear) want to see the hundreds of thousands of people fleeing crap shitholes that aren't fit to live in find a better home, because that's called caring for others less fortunate. A tiny amount of immigrants have bad intentions - and those that do will find a way to do them anyway, but the people who've lost everything and are making a new home won't have a way of doing so if we don't look out for them. And part of why there are so many Middle Eastern refugees - America cause a whole lot of trouble there, so they can deal with all the refugees (though I don't see why, for example Australia *ahem current government *ahem* couldn't take more* as a result. 

In fact, you keep talking about crime. I don't know if it changed after August, but I read from multiple sources that all 159 mass shooting last year until sometime in August were by white people born in America. Not a single black person, not a single immigrant. 

As for the cost - 5 billion dollars is a lot for something that likely won't work, whereas they could spend it on much more pressing matters - youth suicide prevention, housing the homeless, not building another luxury skyscraper for the orange baby... list goes on. 

Beatlebug said
Aaaand we don't have people scrambling into America through the US-Canadian border, either. mccartney-shrug_01_gif

Ha! Sorry, that was a funny thing to read, I did chuckle when I read it. The thing is... you do! But because they're generally more white, noone cares and all turn a blind eye. I know for a fact that because Canada is a much more pleasant, compassionate country, the inevitable wrongdoers that want to wrongdo in the US travel via Canada much more than you think - so why not build a wall there? That'd upset some more people. 

Beatlebug said

And don't even get me started on the mainstream media -- I'll start sounding like a gun-toting MAGA-hat-wearing Trump supporter**, but it's true -- they've gone to the dogs.

**

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Okayyyyyyy... sure... I'm not American so I can't remember if I've remembered them all but from 2 minutes of research you've forgotten that the only real left leaning news agency is CNN, the others are either pseudo-left but actually centre, or right. And don't get me started on Fox News, that really has gone to the dogs...

Also Beatlebug - before I forget, I've been under this impression the entire time I've been on this forum that you're left wing. I'm shocked to find out I'm wrong - obviously I respect that, but you're the first (and I do know a lot) LGBTQI+ person who is right wing... just an interesting observation there.

Wigwam said

Beatlebug helpfully explained why I mentioned it's not my direct problem....Not a being US citizen and I'll add  too old to witness how this will all pan out. I wonder why I worry?

Exactly. The older you are, the less your political decisions affect your life, but the more they do young people's lives. A huge surge of the aforementioned Millenials and Generation Z are left wing because they've seen the damage your generation has done to so many things, and we're not going to do that, we are going to be the change. We are thinking of the future - our future (and I really don't want to sound mean but you yourself said you're old, so not yours unless you break records for longevity) and we want to see it brighter than what it is. The ABC (Australian one) found something like 2/3 of people my age (16-ish) are extremely worried about home ownership, because of YOUR GENERATION's privileges and so many of you all own about 143340876345876 investment homes, meaning we don't get any. That's not fair. We deserve a future that's better than what it is. 

So that said - I live in what's been called until last year the most liveable city in the world for 8 years, in a first world country in an upper-middle class society. I can't imagine what the refugees from places like this place I got in a game of Geoguessr a few days ago think about their future - they are in need of so much more than anyone on this forum could ever imagine (and if that is wrong, and anyone is in that situation, I am sorry). 

 

So, longer than I thought, but I got a bit broader than I expected. I hope this doesn't tarnish my award of 'most respectful even through disagreements', but I did do a lot of editing and I do feel VERY strongly about this.

@Wigwam I hope this meets your expectation of learning something somehow.

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19 January 2019
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@Wigwam, what/why is America the last hope? Hope for/of what?

19 January 2019
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a-hard-days-night-ringo-8(Pointing at Holey's post-- there's no way I'm quoting that) Really great post. I agree with almost everything you said-- there's just one thing that's not quite right. You said that we are presented with the facts and left to make up our own minds--- and to an extent, we are, but I've had a few teachers who are very biased. My World Cultures teacher last year was very left wing, and while he tried to remain unbiased, he didn't do a very good job. It might be different in other places, but where I live, we're under a lot of pressure to be liberal.

Apart from that though, really amazing post! And I think you handled it very respectfully, despite disagreements. a-hard-days-night-george-10heartapple01

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19 January 2019
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On the latest polling I've seen, 58% of Americans are against Trump's wall (with 7 out of 10 of those against saying they don't want the Government shutdown ended by the Democrats giving Trump the money for his wall).

Trump is playing "pork barrel" politics in the worst way possible. This isn't some Senator demanding for a few hundred thousand dollars for a new bridge or something for their vote, but a President demanding nearly $6 billion (which is bound to increase) for his vanity project, which - according to the Homeland Security report on border security he commissioned - would have a "negligible" effect.

He avoided the wall to a large degree during his first two years because he knew he couldn't get it through a Republican Congress and getting it through the Senate would be tight (as was proved earlier this year when two Republican Senators who had previously been in favour but, up for re-election, said they would vote against because they were seeing how unpopular an idea it was among their electorate).

Despite his claim before the mid-terms that he would be "happy" to be blamed for the Government shutdown, he knew when he said it that the Congress was looking likely to switch to Democrat control, and was probably calculating that the blame would land on the new Congress, and the Democrats. Instead, he finds he is being blamed by the majority, and is desperate to find a way out where he can claim a win.

And that is what the Government shutdown is all about, a spoiled baby who doesn't give a damn about those affected by it (not one word of apology or regret to the Federal employees whose wages he's denied; in fact, he previously dismissed them as "mainly Democrats") trying to get his way without winning the debate.

He's already had two shutdowns, not seen since Clinton in the mid-'90s (and he'd been in power for a couple of years before the first one happened). Should the Democrats be blackmailed into giving him his money for his wall because they are concerned about the damage being done to Federal employees, you can be sure this will be a Presidency of Government shutdowns as he will see it as a way to get contentious measures through without needing to win the political debate.

Wigwam said
Sad to see the world's last last hope crumble.

I've only just managed to stop laughing at that - the President who has alienated nearly every American ally to a greater or lesser degree while sucking up to dictatorships around the world is the "world's last last hope"? I wrote off this Presidency making any positive contribution to the world the moment he won, and pray it will be a one-term Presidency - with the next poor sod needing to clean up the mess Trump, one or two terms, will leave behind him.

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19 January 2019
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@The Hole Got Fixed, apologies if my flip comment made it seem as if I was saying people don't sneak in through the US-Canada border. I didn't mean that at all, I was simply stating that they aren't 'scrambling' to get in, with quite the urgency that they seem to on the southern border. I was making that statement in light of the recent onslaught of migrants from South and Central America -- it wasn't meant to be a gospel truth, exactly, more of a... well... flip comment in response to another flip comment. a-hard-days-night-paul-10

Also Beatlebug - before I forget, I've been under this impression the entire time I've been on this forum that you're left wing. I'm shocked to find out I'm wrong - obviously I respect that, but you're the first (and I do know a lot) LGBTQI+ person who is right wing... just an interesting observation there.

My stance on political issues has undergone some change of late; before, I really wasn't educated so I didn't really take part in discourse, but I can see how what little I might have said indicated that I leaned left. I probably kinda did, at the time. I've never particularly allied myself with either side, and consider myself a moderate, but I acknowledge that I probably do lean right on some political issues.

And, yes, even though I am an LGBTQ+ person I don't agree with the politics or some of the ideology espoused by much of the LGBTQ+ community (which isn't always terribly welcoming to asexuals anyway, from what I've heard -- I have very little first-hand experience), and am becoming rather disillusioned with some aspects of it. Of course I still love y'all gays and whatnot as long as ya make decent sense. heart

One last point. In regards to your comment about generations and compassion: I have gathered information to the effect that most generations were more liberal when they were younger, and got more conservative as they grew older. It stands to reason that idealistic young people would be more open to new and shiny ideas, while older people are probably going to have more of a conservative (Back in my day!) mentality. Generation Z is actually one of the more conservative young generations to come along for quite a while -- it's the millennials who are the liberal ones. (I'm not even going to address the insinuation that compassion is some kind of compass by which we should politically affiliate ourselves, and that it need belong to the left. a-hard-days-night-ringo-13)

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19 January 2019
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Ron Nasty said

I've only just managed to stop laughing at that - the President who has alienated nearly every American ally to a greater or lesser degree while sucking up to dictatorships around the world is the "world's last last hope"? I wrote off this Presidency making any positive contribution to the world the moment he won, and pray it will be a one-term Presidency - with the next poor sod needing to clean up the mess Trump, one or two terms, will leave behind him.  

Well that's one of the more laughable things I've read today, personally -- but what's to be expected of a man who gets his news from MSNBC? mccartney-shrug_01_gif

(It's late and I'm getting petty. I apologise to you all for my snarkiness if not my point. Good night. ahdn_george_05)

(Also my specification of gender didn't have anything more to do with anything than the fact that it seemed to roll off the tongue, rather my keyboard, well)

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I'm not sure if you were agreeing with me or saying my response to Wigwam's comment was the most laughable things you've read today, @Beatlebug?

If the latter, you are greatly mistaken about where I get news from. I had to google MSNBC to find out what it was. Don't think we get that in the UK. Our TV news is not allowed the political bias which so warps the American debate (though, of course, political parties often accuse it).

If you were agreeing though... john-lennon-salute_gif

a-hard-days-night-george-10heart

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