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End Of Year Awards
9 January 2021
4.40am
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The Hole Got Fixed
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Oh my, I leave this thread for 24 hours and then I come back to this!

RN, thank you for all your news contributions. a-hard-days-night-ringo-15

I cannot comprehend why we should collapse the two categories down into one, but also cannot comprehend why we have gone this many posts and not really got anywhere?

Personally I think we should keep them separate, as has been and remains my position, and if this ends up going to a vote for reasons I still only barely understand (something to do with 'democracy' instead of robust discussion solving it), I will vote as such, and encourage everyone to do the same. 

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9 January 2021
5.07am
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Tony Japanese
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Ron Nasty said
No one will be banned from the forum for having one view or the other, @Tony Japanese. Unless someone descends into personal attacks on other Forumpudlians, starts playing the person rather than the ball, an opinionated conversation conducted reasonably civilly will never see Joe ban someone from the site. While differing opinions are being aired, personal attacks are not being made.

The fallout of this discussion, at its worse, is that some may choose not to participate in the poll at the end of this year because they disagree with changes made.

  

@Ron Nasty

It was a reference to Trump/Twitter a-hard-days-night-george-10

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9 January 2021
11.24am
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50yearslate
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I had another idea in a night that I think might be received more willingly-- what if we added a brief description of the award under each category so each user knows exactly what each award was for? That might help alleviate some ambiguity in awards like "person who makes you go hmmmm."

Edit: Just to be clear, I'm not proposing that we forget about the other ideas, because I still think they're good ideas. 

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9 January 2021
12.56pm
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Little Piggy Dragonguy
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Here is the link to the poll on proposed changes to the awards. It will be left open for a few days to give people time to vote. 

 

EDIT: poll will close and the announcements will be made on the 12th at 12am CST 

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10 January 2021
3.11pm
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Little Piggy Dragonguy
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To the person who submitted their votes without a username, please PM me who you are for it to be counted. 

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11 January 2021
3.59pm
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Little Piggy Dragonguy
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Just a reminder that the results will be posted at 12am CST, so if you want to vote and haven't yet, you have eight hours to do so. 

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11 January 2021
11.20pm
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Ron Nasty
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Well, I voted on those questions I could. Unfortunately I feel the poll has been rushed (many regulars may not yet have seen the discussion going on here - and final decisions could wait to made for, at least, another few weeks to make sure most had had the chance to look at the discussion going taking place. After all, there should be no hurry to write in stone decisions on a poll that won't appear for eleven months. I also found it poorly written, with only "Yes" or "No" options, no ability to say "Don't know" or "Maybe" (which will often skewer a poll's result as most people like to give their response to all questions asked, which is why most surveys include a "Don't know" and "Maybe" option in most questions so as not to bias the result). There was also no "Other" option.

In my opinion, a hurried poll that is badly biased toward giving a binary result rather than allowing Forumpudlians who have no preference to express that view.

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12 January 2021
12.19am
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Little Piggy Dragonguy
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Ron Nasty said
Well, I voted on those questions I could. Unfortunately I feel the poll has been rushed (many regulars may not yet have seen the discussion going on here - and final decisions could wait to made for, at least, another few weeks to make sure most had had the chance to look at the discussion going taking place. After all, there should be no hurry to write in stone decisions on a poll that won't appear for eleven months. I also found it poorly written, with only "Yes" or "No" options, no ability to say "Don't know" or "Maybe" (which will often skewer a poll's result as most people like to give their response to all questions asked, which is why most surveys include a "Don't know" and "Maybe" option in most questions so as not to bias the result). There was also no "Other" option.

In my opinion, a hurried poll that is badly biased toward giving a binary result rather than allowing Forumpudlians who have no preference to express that view.

I've already said this, but for the topics that haven't been properly discussed (such as adding a new member award or renaming the hmmm award), it was to see if further discussion was warranted or if people were even interested in it. I also said we could extend the time if people wanted and nobody responded saying they thought we should. 

EDIT: If people have no preference they can either not vote or skip those categories. I'm not sure what difference having an "I don't care" option would make. 

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12 January 2021
12.21am
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Little Piggy Dragonguy
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Here are the results to the poll

Should-an-award-be-added-to-recognize-new-members_.pngImage Enlarger

Should-_Most-Likely-to-Post-Things-That-Make-You-Go-Hmmm_-be-re-worded_.pngImage Enlarger
Should-_Most-Informed-on-Current-Beatles-News_-and-_Most-Informed-on-Beatles-History_-be-merged_.pngImage Enlarger
Should-there-be-a-committee-for-the-End-of-Year-Awards-instead-of-one-person-running-it_.pngImage Enlarger
Should-posts-be-narrowed-down-at-the-end-of-the-year-for-_Funniest-Post_-_Most-Creative-Contribution_-and-_Most-Insightful-Post___.pngImage Enlarger
Should-a-description-of-each-category-be-added-to-the-poll_.pngImage Enlarger

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12 January 2021
12.38am
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Ron Nasty
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@Little Piggy Dragonguy said
I also said we could extend the time if people wanted and nobody responded saying they thought we should.

I did. Before the poll was closed. It was still closed without any wait to see if others agreed.

You say you see no difference between "Yes"/"No" surveys and those that offer further options. You obviously don't understand surveys.

Let's say 10 people respond to a survey question with a "Yes"/"No" option, and they split 6 (yes)/3 (no)/1 (no vote), given a "Yes"/"Maybe"/"No"/"Don't Know" choice, offering the further options, you might get a 3/2/3/2, which in my opinion is a very different response.

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12 January 2021
12.58am
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The Hole Got Fixed
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Fascinating to see that the majority of users on a Beatles forum voted to reduce the number of Beatley-awards.

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12 January 2021
2.35am
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Little Piggy Dragonguy
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Ron Nasty said
I did. Before the poll was closed. It was still closed without any wait to see if others agreed.

The idea of doing this over the weekend was first mentioned a week ago. You had days to say something but waited until 40 minutes before I said I would be posting the results. I feel like you're just being difficult on purpose. 

You say you see no difference between "Yes"/"No" surveys and those that offer further options. You obviously don't understand surveys.

Let's say 10 people respond to a survey question with a "Yes"/"No" option, and they split 6 (yes)/3 (no)/1 (no vote), given a "Yes"/"Maybe"/"No"/"Don't Know" choice, offering the further options, you might get a 3/2/3/2, which in my opinion is a very different response.

I didn't say that. This was a poll to see what forum members think about making changes to a once yearly award ceremony. It's not being done for research. People who don't care or don't know aren't going to be invested enough to vote. 

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12 January 2021
3.05am
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AppleScruffJunior
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Why were worries about the poll left until 40 minutes before closing time?

 

It took 10 seconds to answer, users who had concerns about the form had Saturday, Sunday and Monday to raise concerns, ask for an extension etc.,  all of which I imagine LPD would have granted.

 

Not much point trying to shut the stable door after the horse is 7/8 out. 

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12 January 2021
5.49am
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Starr Shine?
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The Hole Got Fixed said
Fascinating to see that the majority of users on a Beatles forum voted to reduce the number of Beatley-awards.

a-hard-days-night-george-4a-hard-days-night-george-4

Don't see ya advocate for a Beatles fanfiction award ahdn_paul_01

__

And if ya gonna make complains, should of done so before the poll was made, had plenty of time to do so. Also every asking for a extension eairly on rather than at the last second.

If people really don't care then they skip options like you yourself apparently did.

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12 January 2021
6.44am
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Ron Nasty
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Having not looked at this thread since before the dates for the poll were announced, and therefore having no idea of the short time that had given for the vote, I could only complain when I saw that information.

And, then, of course, the classic, "...if ya gonna make complains, should of done so before the poll was made...". As was similarly suggested by the same person following the complaints that alterations had been made to the poll in December.

As I responded then, how can you complain before when you have not seen the form of questions being used before. Without a preview of the poll being published before it was opened to voting, there was no opportunity for anyone not directly involved in making the poll to argue with the binary nature of the questions posed.

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12 January 2021
7.26am
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Starr Shine?
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And, then, of course, the classic, "...if ya gonna make complains, should of done so before the poll was made...". As was similarly suggested by the same person following the complaints that alterations had been made to the poll in December.

Which is why I decided to bring it up in January.

 

Binary natire is cause further discussion on things like names, what descriptions are, how rising Starr will work etc. No point going forward on those unless people agree to the basic premise. 

 

Also there was talk about a poll this weekend on the 6th here in post 1432. You posed in this thread after the post. 

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12 January 2021
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*Looks at results*

Well at least there's one thing we can all agree on. 

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12 January 2021
11.17am
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50yearslate
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Ron Nasty said
Having not looked at this thread since before the dates for the poll were announced, and therefore having no idea of the short time that had given for the vote, I could only complain when I saw that information.

Why wouldn't you check the thread? You knew we were having a discussion, and we made it known that there would be a poll. You can't blame us for something that's entirely your fault.

And, then, of course, the classic, "...if ya gonna make complains, should of done so before the poll was made...". As was similarly suggested by the same person following the complaints that alterations had been made to the poll in December.

You have successfully pointed out a similar situation. However, you have not refuted the point with any sort of facts, logic, or reasoning-- you're just ridiculing it. If you had an opinion on how the poll should have been set up/run, you should have reached out to LPD and made an effort to work with her on it, not complain about her hard work after the poll was finished.

As I responded then, how can you complain before when you have not seen the form of questions being used before. Without a preview of the poll being published before it was opened to voting, there was no opportunity for anyone not directly involved in making the poll to argue with the binary nature of the questions posed.

  

I still don't see the problem with the yes-or-no questions-- you yourself said you voted on the questions you could. I assume that means you left the rest blank? As is perfectly reasonable to do if you don't have an opinion or aren't sure? I don't see what a "no opinion" option would have added to the poll besides watering it down.

 

I'm very disappointed that you didn't voice these concerns or make any effort to suggest formatting for the poll until an hour before it closed. I feel that this is not something that can be blamed on LPD.

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12 January 2021
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50yearslate
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The Hole Got Fixed said
Fascinating to see that the majority of users on a Beatles forum voted to reduce the number of Beatley-awards.

a-hard-days-night-george-4a-hard-days-night-george-4

  

In the words of John Mulaney, we're well past that. a-hard-days-night-george-10

Love one another.

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12 January 2021
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Ron Nasty
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@Starr Shine? said
Also there was talk about a poll this weekend on the 6th here in post 1432. You posed in this thread after the post.

No, there wasn't

Your exact post...

I think the poll should take place on the weekend so more people can weight in on the multiple issues we wanna bring up like the funniest post, newest member and history/news merge

There was no mention of it being this weekend, just that it should be held over a weekend.

@50yearslate said
I'm very disappointed that you didn't voice these concerns or make any effort to suggest formatting for the poll until an hour before it closed.

Their had been no discussion of the formatting of the poll by those proposing before its publication, which saw it immediately go live.
 
@Little Piggy Dragonguy said
I didn't say that. This was a poll to see what forum members think about making changes to a once yearly award ceremony. It's not being done for research. People who don't care or don't know aren't going to be invested enough to vote.
While I might agree a binary yes/no could work for consideration of whether adding elements to the poll were worth discussing further (after all, virtually none of those suggestions that were voted yes have been properly defined in how they will work, so unless they're going to be foisted on us by those running the poll nowadays, there will need to be further conversation about how they will be enacted) which means those questions were totally for research.
 
However, something that already exists, without getting the wider view, to see whether it's three or more people who want History and News merged, or whether some that voted yes or no were actually more undecided, by allowing for a maybe, that would have meant there was further discussion needed there also. By making that contentious question binary, a question there is disagreement over, it'll be used to close it down as a subject for future discussion.
 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Anyway, I'm accepting that this move by some is going to happen, creating a dumbed-down poll that I expect to see more of The Beatles aspects of the poll weeded out, and it becoming more about the social aspect.
 
As many know, and I will not deny, there were changes Joe made to the forum to emphasise it is a Beatles forum and not a social forum, although it allows aspects of it, that I highly objected to, was very vocal about. However, I have come to appreciate it being more Beatles-focused since those changes have been made, and feel that a poll that is now looking to become less Beatles-focused and more about the social aspects isn't something I'm interested in.
 
As both SS? and LPD could tell you, most years I haven't voted in the more "social media" and "favourite" categories. Therefore, and giving you all time to consider where your votes will go, I will neither be voting in the next poll nor accepting any category I am voted for in, instead rejecting any award with my opinion that the poll is too much about the social and not enough the Beatles.
 
It'll be interesting to see who wins "Most Helpful When a Question Is Posed" and "Beatles Knowledge" in the next poll, but if I win either - or any other category - my response will be a rejection of an award from a dumbed-down poll.
 
So, in advance, I thank all those who respect my wishes to not vote for me in the next poll, and my next post in this thread will probably be just before the next poll is opened to remind all that a vote for me will be a wasted vote.
 

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