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End Of Year Awards Discussion Thread
1 June 2022
3.15am
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meanmistermustard
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As posted in the End Of Year Awards thread, here is the thread for everyone (whether you signed up back when Joe first created the forum, joined five seconds ago, post every day, or if you only appear once a year to say you love Pete) to discuss the EOYA categories.

The very simple approach is to post the categories from last year and let folk go where they want with the discussions, whilst staying on topic. The discussions will close on the 31st October and the thread will be locked. Hopefully by then there will be agreement by all on what the categories will be for this year and who runs the awards in December, if not then the mods will need to step in and make the final decisions (preferably not). The awards can then be prepared and be ready for the 1st December.

All the mods request and will ensure is followed is that the discussions are kept in line with the forum rules; please keep it friendly and respectful and remember the awards are for all so you may need to compromise on what you want/think is best. It's fine to disagree but don't make it personal or descend into arguments. If that does happen the mods will be stepping in to do what is required to ensure the forum is not disrupted, from deleting posts to locking the thread.

Any issues or concerns please PM or @ Joe and/or a mod (Ahhh Girl, Beatlebug, The Hole Got Fixed or myself) in this thread. 

Hopefully all of that is clear and acceptable to all.

 

The 2021 End Of Year Awards categories.

Most Consistently On Topic Poster
Most Likely to Derail a Thread
Most Creative Poster
Most Creative Contribution
Funniest Poster
Funniest Post
Most Insightful Post
Most Welcoming to New Members
Most Helpful After a Question Is Posed
Most Willing to Voice Their Opinion
Most Respectful Even Through Disagreements
Most Likely to Cheer Up Someone in a Bad Mood
Most Likely to Post Things That Make You Go Hmmm…
Most informed poster on current Beatles news
Most informed user on Beatles history
Most Avid John Fan/Lennonista/Johnny Boy/Girl
Most Avid Paul Fan/Paulette/Paulvert
Most Avid George Fan/Fiendish Thingy
Most Avid Ringo Fan/Starrbeam
Most Hardcore Beatles Bible Fan
Awesomest Username
Awesomest Nickname
Awesomest Signature
Poster with the Best Avatars

(Special Mr. Sun King Coming Together Award)

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2 June 2022
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sigh butterfly
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Thanks for kicking off the discussion mmm. Could someone in the know provide the history of the End of Year Forum Awards? What was the original purpose?

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2 June 2022
11.24pm
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Ron Nasty
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The awards were created in 2010 by Mr. Sun King Coming Together. It is difficult to know the original intent as the first post has been replaced rather than added to, but, without fully going through the initial votes, the majority of categories were based on social contributions to the forum, and it didn't last long. It certainly didn't run in the year I joined.

It was resurrected in 2014, with a discussion about revising categories, but a feeling there wasn't the time, so we pretty much went with what was there already. In 2015 there was a major overhaul, with Beatles History (Beatles News was already a category) along with biggest fans of John, Paul, George and Ringo being added, in order to recognise the primary purpose of this forum is to allow Beatle People to connect up and talk Beatles.

The social aspect is important to many of us, but is secondary to why the forum is here (which is why Joe has felt the need on more than one occasion to shift the focus of the forum away from the social and back toward The Beatles).

Since 2015 we have had a roughly unchanging set of categories (though some social may have been added).

We have had 6 Beatles categories...

Most informed poster on current Beatles news
Most informed user on Beatles history
Most Avid John Fan/Lennonista/Johnny Boy/Girl
Most Avid Paul Fan/Paulette/Paulvert
Most Avid George Fan/Fiendish Thingy
Most Avid Ringo Fan/Starrbeam

...along with several social categories...

Most Consistently On Topic Poster
Most Likely to Derail a Thread
Most Creative Poster
Most Creative Contribution
Funniest Poster
Funniest Post
Most Insightful Post
Most Welcoming to New Members
Most Helpful After a Question Is Posed
Most Willing to Voice Their Opinion
Most Respectful Even Through Disagreements
Most Likely to Cheer Up Someone in a Bad Mood
Most Likely to Post Things That Make You Go Hmmm…
Most Hardcore Beatles Bible Fan
Awesomest Username
Awesomest Nickname
Awesomest Signature
Poster with the Best Avatars

These categories are decided upon by Forumpudlians in a vote with the aim of recognising those who have contributed the most in those areas to the forum in that year.

The Beatles categories are purely about contributions about them together and solo, while the social categories need not be posts about them, but often can be. I remember winning Funniest Post two years on the trot (it shouldn't have been eligible the 2nd year) for a post I made in a thread about possible alternate lyrics, people riffing on While My Guitar Gently Weeps , with me contributing, so far as I remember:

I mourn for my biscuits
That bitch keeps on eating...

Point is, social can include Beatles and non-Beatles discussion.

There is also the Special Mr. Sun King Coming Together Award which is a special award for contributions to the forum decided by those involved in running the poll that year.

In the end, the basic idea of the awards is to recognise those whose contributions we think add something to the forum.

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The Beatles Bible 2020 non-Canon Poll Part One: 1958-1963 and Part Two: 1964-August 1966

3 June 2022
1.04pm
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sigh butterfly
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Thanks Ron. I thought the original purpose might have been to engage new members to participate in the forum. For myself, I would like to see some categories that are statistic based. I think such things as most liked post or most played game are interesting. I know this would require some data analysis but not impossible.

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3 June 2022
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Ron Nasty
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A vote for favourite post and favourite poster has been considered in the past, @sigh butterfly, IIRC, at least one of them has, but the majority opinion has always been that they might skew people to write posts to be liked instead of offering sometimes unpopular views and opinions.

At one time The Most Hardcore Beatles Bible Fan used to be called something like Most Active Beatle Bibler, but that was judged to just encourage people to post for better or worst.

I, myself, don't see Most Played Game Thread being an award. Maybe there is an argument to be made to @Joe that he does some sort of annual report of, say, the 30 threads that have received the most traffic in the previous year, or the Top 10 among Beatles threads, solo threads, social threads -- but that would depend on whether Joe had the time and the numbers were easy to find. Neither of which I would want to think is likely.

The awards are meant to be a reflection of the views and opinions of Forumpudlians looking back over the previous year, rather than a reporting of statistics.

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sigh butterfly

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The Beatles Bible 2020 non-Canon Poll Part One: 1958-1963 and Part Two: 1964-August 1966

12 June 2022
3.11am
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Starr Shine?
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Last time, we voted to combine 

Most informed poster on current Beatles news
Most informed user on Beatles history

 

So since that vote passed last year, that change should come to pass.

 

Also, there shouldn't be any secret rules for voting. It should all be out in the open. 

https://youtu.be/52nwiTs7bk8

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12 June 2022
1.20pm
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Ron Nasty
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I think you're missing the point, @Starr Shine?; this is a fresh discussion based on the categories that were used in the 2021 Awards, which chose not to put in place the changes made in the previous vote without further discussion, which would be given a lengthy period to be conducted.

This is that promised discussion. It's a clean slate. It's all up for grabs. Everything is on the table.

And even if mmm and the mods were to say they were putting those changes in effect for the 2022 poll, they wouldn't consider it a closed and locked subject which couldn't be further discussed, and they wouldn't prevent a discussion on whether a merged News and History should be demerged.

I am also unsure what you mean by "secret rules for voting"? One Forumpudlian, one vote. There has never been any secret rules that I know of.

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12 June 2022
3.36pm
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meanmistermustard
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Starr Shine? said
Last time, we voted to combine 

Most informed poster on current Beatles news

Most informed user on Beatles history

 

So since that vote passed last year, that change should come to pass.

 

Also, there shouldn't be any secret rules for voting. It should all be out in the open. 

  

Nothing was agreed last time. The conversation died out, the awards stopped, and the same categories as 2020 were used for 2021 after @The Hole Got Fixed and myself took it on at the last minute. 

This is a fresh discussion where people can discuss anything they want as long as it's done in a polite, respectful and constructive manner. If the desire by the majority is to have those two categories merged then fine, if not they won't be - if there is no consensus by the time the conversation ends at the end of October then the mods will decide, but we don't want to get to that point.

 

Like Ron, I have no idea what you mean by secret rules for voting. There is no vote aside from when submitting your nominations for the winners in December.

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris)

12 June 2022
6.05pm
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sir walter raleigh
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Its an interesting argument where news and history belong in the same category. I for one think we shouldn’t get rid of Beatles related awards as they are already the minority. By definition News and History are different fields and so I think they should remain separate, although Im really too invested in the awards and dont believe them to be necessary in the first place so these are just my two cents

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12 June 2022
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Richard
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I think News and History should remain as two separate categories.

And in the end

The love you take is equal to the love you make

 

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13 June 2022
2.28am
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Starr Shine?
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Like Ron, I have no idea what you mean by secret rules for voting. There is no vote aside from when submitting your nominations for the winners in December.

 

The spam filter was not made public.

 

And submitting nominations is a form of voting.

https://youtu.be/52nwiTs7bk8

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13 June 2022
5.57am
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Ron Nasty
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@Starr Shine? said
The spam filter was not made public.

I don't understand what this has to do with secret rules for voting? I don't know whether Joe has put in place an additional spam filter since I was a mod, but there has always been a spam filter of some sort since the start of the forum, or shortly after. The sums, CAPTCHAs, and new members needing to get their first post approved by a mod before it appears in case it is spam.

I've known Joe does his best to keep spam off the forum since the day I joined, never been a secret, nothing to do with voting, just forum moderation. It's often been mentioned, with mods saying much of their work is blocking bots and spam from getting access.

Unless, of course, you're suggesting Joe shouldn't do anything to prevent the forum being flooded with spam unless the majority of Forumpudlians give him permission to block spam?

I, for one, appreciate every effort Joe and the mods do to keep the forum spam free. I don't want posts like:

I work for ***** and earn $1000 a day with little effort.

Follow these few steps and you could do the same... etc., etc.

I'm glad that I don't have to put up with that crap here because of the efforts of Joe and the mods.

And submitting nominations is a form of voting.

Are you suggesting that instead of the private vote we have always had on the End of Year Awards, that everybody who takes part in the poll should have to post their nominee for winner in each category publicly?

Have you not heard of the privacy of the ballot box? When you next vote in an election for a political representative, are you happy to let everyone see who you voted for?

IMHO I think that would decrease participation in the poll.

Yes, it would be fascinating to see the voting pattern of those who voted in the 2021 Awards, especially as they surprised many, including some of those who won, but I'm not too sure that many of those who voted would want their vote made public and have questioned why they voted the way they did.

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13 June 2022
7.42am
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meanmistermustard
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Starr Shine? said

Like Ron, I have no idea what you mean by secret rules for voting. There is no vote aside from when submitting your nominations for the winners in December.

 

The spam filter was not made public.

Sorry but you'll need to be clearer in what you mean, @Starr Shine?.

 

What has the spam filter got to to do with the EOYA? The forum has and always will have a spam filter as message boards quickly become a nightmare if there is no protection from people bombarding sites with messages ranging from the latest weight loss products via having won the lottery in another country - claim by replying, to people simply advertising all their own unrelated stuff. No one wants to read that, it can get tiring dealing with it. It only puts off new people joining and visitors from coming by and participating.

If a new person wants to join the forum to vote then fine but they would have to post first to get involved.; if their first post is clearly not spam then it would be approved within a handful of hours. Approval is only held up if there is any suggestion it is spam; mods have gotten used to spotting spam but at times discussions need to be had and that can take longer as we go in full agreement with each other and we all have lives away from here.

One thought tho with people signing up just to vote is how would they know who to vote for? Does anyone lurk quietly for a period of time resisting all urges to get involved in any discussions yet feel that the EOYA is the place to start? I don't know. Maybe they do.

And submitting nominations is a form of voting.

  

I could be wrong but I believe the voting is done thru PM or via an online form you submit. If you mean the voting is done without people knowing who you vote for, what's the issue with that?

Everyone would need to give their own approval for their votes to be made public as it may put potential contributors off if how and who they voted for was made known to all. A voting breakdown could be done however if that's what people want - it would be quite simple to do.

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22 June 2022
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Are people happy with the categories as they stand? 
Currently there are 24 categories (6 Beatles, 18 forum/poster based); personally I’d quite like to trim that to 20 but that might be too extreme and being honest I’m not sure I could list 4.  What is the difference between ‘Awesome Username’ and ‘Awesome Nickname’?

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meanmistermustard said
What is the difference between ‘Awesome Username’ and ‘Awesome Nickname’? 

Is this, as examples below, the
* doggo / Richard
* mja6758 / Ron Nasty
* cbatcu / Ahhh Girl
variations?

If so, I would be happy to see this reduced to a single category – presumably the name that is generally seen, so that would be "Richard", "Ron Nasty", "Ahhh Girl" in those examples.

And in the end

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22 June 2022
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Richard said

meanmistermustard said

What is the difference between ‘Awesome Username’ and ‘Awesome Nickname’? 

Is this, as examples below, the

* doggo / Richard

* mja6758 / Ron Nasty

* cbatcu / Ahhh Girl

variations?

If so, I would be happy to see this reduced to a single category – presumably the name that is generally seen, so that would be "Richard", "Ron Nasty", "Ahhh Girl" in those examples.

  

Take me as an example - my username is The Hole Got Fixed, but my nickname is Holey.

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23 June 2022
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Ron Nasty
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While nickname may be a nice little award, it is one that only ever has a very few Forumpudlians who it can go to. Awesome Nickname is never going to go to RN, mmm, AG, ASJ, Richard, etc. It makes it quite an exclusive award that the majority of Forumpudlians are never going to be in the running for.

Looking up and down the list, I don't think it's loss would leave a huge gap, but find it difficult to think of another three to drop.

As is known, I'm a firm believer that the 6 Beatles categories should not be reduced. There aren't that many of them, and ultimately this is a Beatles forum. I'm well aware that there are those who would like to merge History and News, something I have argued against as I believe they are two different disciplines. However much someone knows about Beatles history, doesn't help in the least in letting people know Paul was going to tour this year two days ahead of any official announcement.

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24 June 2022
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The Hole Got Fixed
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Totally agree. I'm not unhappy with nickname being dropped.

And yes, 6 Beatles categories compared to 18 non-Beatles is an awfully low ratio, hence why I also agree we shouldn't be looking at reducing these I wouldn't think...

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26 June 2022
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meanmistermustard
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I wouldn't be in favour of reducing the Beatles themed categories, if anything I'd rather increase them and have a better ratio of Beatles <-> social.

 

Is there anyone who wouldn't be in favour of therefore either removing the nickname award or merging it with username? 

Could we merge the nickname/signature/avatar/username awards and simply have best bio that covers them all with voters being encouraged to highlight the reason for the winning candidate? That might be far too controversial and not agreeable and that's cool, I'm simply trying to see what possibilities there are and see what the feedback is on potential changes. Get a bit of discussion going and see what people's thoughts are.

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26 June 2022
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meanmistermustard said
I wouldn't be in favour of reducing the Beatles themed categories, if anything I'd rather increase them and have a better ratio of Beatles <-> social.

Yes, I agree with that. I would welcome ideas on possible additional Beatles-themed categories.

meanmistermustard said
Is there anyone who wouldn't be in favour of therefore either removing the nickname award or merging it with username? 

Could we merge the nickname/signature/avatar/username awards and simply have best bio that covers them all with voters being encouraged to highlight the reason for the winning candidate? That might be far too controversial and not agreeable and that's cool, I'm simply trying to see what possibilities there are and see what the feedback is on potential changes. Get a bit of discussion going and see what people's thoughts are.
  

I'd be happy with a merger of all four (into a best bio category) as you've suggested.

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And in the end

The love you take is equal to the love you make

 

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