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White Album 50th Anniversary Edition
9 November 2018
9.29am
glazball
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@Billy Rhythm I have to pretty much disagree with something in every paragraph your wrote.  No disrespected intended at all, but there's too much to unpack, so let me just say that I also love the Love project and don't believe I'm in the minority of general Beatles fans in that opinion.

@J Alesait I'd love to see a source on that because I've never heard anyone ever say that the (Beatles') preferred version of the White Album is the mono mix.

My box set should be waiting for me by the time my work day is over and I'm SO EAGER to relax with the set and a beer tonight, revisiting this album.  I've purposely been avoiding all White Album tracks so it'll be as fresh as possible!  I expect to be blown away, like I was when I finally heard the 2017 Sgt. Pepper mix.  But to those of you who aren't interested in a new mix, that's perfectly ok since there's plenty of room in here for all us Beatles lovers.

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9 November 2018
9.30am
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Expert Textpert
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@Billy Rhythm, have you heard the Giles Martin mix or are you just automatically dismissing it?

I prefer the original mono mix to the original stereo mix, but I have to agree with @Ron Nasty that stereo was the preferred. 

@J Alesait, if you have evidence to the contrary, I would love to see it.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

9 November 2018
10.44am
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QuarryMan
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Well it's here. I'm currently skimming through and listening to the tracks I'm most interested to hear. I have to say I'm somewhat disappointed with Good Night , I'd hoped for something more Julia -esque, and the constant beat makes the song not ethereal enough. The harmonising is nice though. Helter Skelter , though, is pretty cool. I like the bluesy jam that opens it with the menacing drums and bass.

Tall, dark-haired QuarryMan likes basketball, music, and naturally, boys. He was a valuable participant on the track team. He is one of Freeport's great contributors to the recording world. As for the immediate future, QuarryMan has no plans, but will take life as it comes. 

 

9 November 2018
12.04pm
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J Alesait
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glazball said
@J Alesait I'd love to see a source on that because I've never heard anyone ever say that the (Beatles') preferred version of the White Album is the mono mix.

Now you made me doubt my memory... Anyhow, I don't remember The Beatles saying their prefered version was the stereo one. Maybe neither one was prefered over the other...

9 November 2018
12.08pm
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J Alesait
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Expert Textpert said
@J Alesait, if you have evidence to the contrary, I would love to see it.  

I'm gonna do a little research on this as soon as I can. I don't remember The Beatles saying the stereo mix was their prefered version either. But, of course, I may be wrong...

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Expert Textpert
9 November 2018
12.58pm
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J Alesait
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Billy Rhythm said
OK, J Alesait, you really dig the 'Love' project but throughout Beatland you're clearly in a minority there...  that "hurried 1968 stereo mix" of the 'White Album ' continues to outsell 'Love' year after year...  yeah, I know Sir George Martin helped out on the project but advanced hearing loss was also a big factor in his involvement...  the 'White Album ' is a finished work of art, and it's 50 years old...  the interest in celebrating its legacy is staggering and shows that it's stood the test of time...

I never compared the White Album to Love. I just said Giles did a pretty good job on the latter. Probably ANY version of the White Album will always outsell Love, even this 2018 remixed version! But that's not the point.
I think many of us have enjoyed Love for what it is: a soundtrack album of a Cirque du Soleil show. 

"hurried" doesn't mean that they shoulda spent more time on it...  they wanted to wrap it up and capture it while they were still hot for it...  if you simmer things too long it eventually deteriorates...  I believe that The Beatles themselves realized this at the time and wanted to deliver the best album that they could...

"Hurried" is not even the main issue here. The thing is they still had to bounce-down many tracks on this album, and they did it not because some artistic consideration but because they had no choice. Therefore, some instruments and voices recorded by them simply got lost or muffled on the final mix. Now we can hear all this as it was recorded yesterday... They certainly would have used this technology had it been available back then.
 

Apologies for not jumping on the Giles Martin bandwagon...  I hear him goin' on about how much fun they were having making this record as though the people who were there and close to The Beatles at the time made up all of the stories about the tension between them...  now he's trying to tell us that that's not Ringo playing the fills on 'Dear Prudence '?!  how the hell would he know?...  people also seem to forget that his father was only one of, what?  9 different production credits for the album?  did he not abruptedly leave before the sessions were even halfway through?

Giles is saying (and I've heard him myself) that the tapes do not reveal any major tension betwen the group when they were recording music. Of course, he was not there in the first place, and he cannot deny what they've always said: that they were breaking apart during those sessions. He also says that they played live as a four piece band for much of the recordings, and this is a fact.

I've always assumed it was common knowledge that Paul played the drums on Dear Prudence , so he's saying nothing new here. He's in a better position than all of us to tell if Ringo overdubbed or not some fills on it, because he's heard all the takes and every recorded track of this song (and of every song).

This all wreaks of Apple's continued mandate to "revision" The Beatles' legacy...  if the new mix is so much better than the original, why not sell it on its own?  because it wouldn't sell...  it's the unreleased goodies that are selling this package...  sure, if you put the new mix on a new state-of-the-art sound system it's likely to sonically sound better than the original will, but how many Beatles' fans actually even own such a system?  and even those who do probably don't use such a rig for most of their listening pleasures...  the vast majority listen on modest to cheap (for lack of a better word) audio devices and that's where the "hurried 1968 stereo mix" will outshine anything new, everytime…  they weren't looking to please a handful of elitists back in 1968...  just their loyal fans...:-)  

Of course the new mix would sell on its own. It would sell simply because it's the White Album by the Beatles, isn't it? I bet it will even outsell the 2009 stereo remaster in years to come (the original stereo mix version will always exist, so there's no need to worry). I fail to see the problem with having a new stereo mix that can bring to us that wonderful music in better quality and detail, and that allows us to hear sounds that were always there but we couldn't hear clearly. Now, each track recorded for any given song has the same acoustic quality, and those that were relegated/downgraded before because of the bounce-downs are now back as when they were first recorded. And lucky us that the original tapes are still in good form, because otherwise those sounds would have been lost forever!!

And this is not heresy as some seem to be thinking. Giles is not adding voices nor instruments to the mixes. And he's perfectly capable of the job (AND he's the son of George Martin, so we can rest assured he loves and respects this music!!).

I'm sure anyone hearing this album (this 2018 mix) 100 years from now, for the first time ever, will perfectly enjoy the music and the sound and will not care at all about who mixed it or why it is mixed this way. The "problem" is there for us all who have heard the original mixes and keep comparing them.

9 November 2018
1.18pm
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SgtPeppersBulldog
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Just finished reading this nice article on the album and the work that went behind it:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/ente.....?ocid=AMZN

I love Giles' reaction to Revolution 9 towards the end of the article.ahdn_john_08_gif

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9 November 2018
1.59pm
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Billy Rhythm
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Expert Textpert said
@Billy Rhythm, have you heard the Giles Martin mix or are you just automatically dismissing it?

no, I have not and nor do I care to...  no, I didn't bite at the 2009 stab at it either...  they couldn't even wait a decade to rework it yet again?!  I didn't even buy the CDs that were first released in the 80s either...  I transferred all of my vinyl & cassettes to mp3s using SoundForge (before SONY bought it and was released by the developers Sonic Foundry)…  I didn't use ANY compression, Noise Reduction etc. and simply just got a good level for a clean transfer...  I preserved the works virtually exactly as they were when I first heard them...

 

I'll quote George Harrison himself, "I like a bit of tape hiss personally"...:-)

9 November 2018
2.25pm
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J Alesait
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Here's a good article, which I could have signed myself:

https://www.salon.com/2018/11/.....-a-marvel/

9 November 2018
2.46pm
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Billy Rhythm said

Expert Textpert said
@Billy Rhythm, have you heard the Giles Martin mix or are you just automatically dismissing it?

no, I have not and nor do I care to...  no, I didn't bite at the 2009 stab at it either...  they couldn't even wait a decade to rework it yet again?!  I didn't even buy the CDs that were first released in the 80s either...  I transferred all of my vinyl & cassettes to mp3s using SoundForge (before SONY bought it and was released by the developers Sonic Foundry)…  I didn't use ANY compression, Noise Reduction etc. and simply just got a good level for a clean transfer...  I preserved the works virtually exactly as they were when I first heard them...

 

I'll quote George Harrison himself, "I like a bit of tape hiss personally"...:-)  

That’s all well and good and you can be a purist in that way if you like. I have vinyl rips of all the albums myself.

However, any argument you might have against the new mixes is invalid (or maybe it just carries less weight) if you haven’t actually heard them. 

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"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

9 November 2018
2.53pm
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Billy Rhythm
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I'm unable to listen to it without prejudice...  let us just leave it at that...  it's no different than them old black & white films that are magically restored in colour…  the artistic integrity is tarnished, no matter how much it makes one's eyeballs spin...:-)

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9 November 2018
3.01pm
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J Alesait
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Billy Rhythm said

Expert Textpert said
@Billy Rhythm, have you heard the Giles Martin mix or are you just automatically dismissing it?

no, I have not and nor do I care to...  no, I didn't bite at the 2009 stab at it either...  they couldn't even wait a decade to rework it yet again?!  I didn't even buy the CDs that were first released in the 80s either...  I transferred all of my vinyl & cassettes to mp3s using SoundForge (before SONY bought it and was released by the developers Sonic Foundry)…  I didn't use ANY compression, Noise Reduction etc. and simply just got a good level for a clean transfer...  I preserved the works virtually exactly as they were when I first heard them...

Using your own words again, you're clearly in a minority here...

The 1987 release was the first time Beatles music was released on CD, a bit later than other classic rock performers indeed... The 2009 was the perfection of the mastering for CD of the entire catalogue (both mono and stereo mixes) in order to preserve in CD and digital formats those original and historical mixes... Now we're talking about something very different from the 2009 releases. Both the 1987 and the 2009 releases served two purposes: first and foremost, set a new standard, giving the NEW buyers (meaning new listeners) THE product to get (on the current format of the era) in order to hear the classic versions of the Beatles' songs; second, inviting "old" listeners to buy again music they already owned, in order to enjoy its improved sound quality (in this case, a subtly improved sound quality, actually stuff for audiophiles which was not really well explained to the people because any new sale counts). 

Anyway, now we're talking about something else, since there's no point in remixing an album to make it sound exactly the same. Here we have more depth, detail, and a new stereo panning which makes more sence now in 2018 after 50 years of mixing experience in the world of rock/pop music. So, it's not a reworking of the 2009 release by no means.

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The Hole Got Fixed
9 November 2018
4.20pm
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Billy Rhythm
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I'm glad that you and Apple are in agreement with their authorized profiting from Poetic License...  Introduce The Beatles to the young the way that they were meant to be heard...  the microphones used, although state-of-the-art at the time, only provide so much input for today's technology to process...  Post-Production wasn't the emphasis back then, that is now...  and I believe that The Beatles got this one right the first time around...:-) 

9 November 2018
5.15pm
Wigwam
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I'm not expecting too much from a new mix......I reckon I'll like some songs more, maybe some less.....I enjoyed 'Love'....and 'Naked' ...I guess I'm just a shameless 'sound slut' going for anything Beatles without the rarified aural skills of some others here.

Thing is ....'Who gives a monkeys?' It's my ears, my appreciation.....my fun thankee! If Giles' mix can help me hear more clearly what the fabs laid down......So far down that it didn't register with me before, well more power to his oboe (as John might have quipped).

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9 November 2018
5.34pm
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I thought some might be interested to read some of the reviews of 'The Beatles' from '68.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/mu.....ember-1968

10 November 2018
12.12am
kevintimba
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Hi guys - I received my 6CD+DVD package today and I'm totally thrilled with the 6CDs and the book but the DVD isn't working for me. I bought the Pepper 50th anniversary one when it came out and - sadly I can't remember the details - but I succeeded in ripping the documentary and mono mix to .ogg files and they were fantastic. So now, on the same computer, I'm trying to retrace my steps but my PC just won't have anything to do with the DVD no matter what program I use (I can't remember what I used last time but I've tried everything on the PC). Is anyone else having trouble with the bluray?

10 November 2018
3.08am
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Billy Rhythm
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Ron Nasty said
Just to be clear, @Billy Rhythm, the point I was making was that the two demos so far made available from the 50th are an improvement over those that appeared on Anthology 3 and on bootleg. Since the new tapes Giles discovered were found at George's, that could well indicate that they're the originals from which the copies the others had were taken. I'd agree that the bootlegs generally sound better than those that appeared on 3, and I think the two we have so far from the 50th sound better than both. As to rough edges, it would a shame to lose those unless those rough edges have been more the result of the tape sources than the actual recordings.  

Got to hear the new Esher disc today and although it was an enjoyable listen, I still prefer my 1980's 'Black Album' version...  I give them marks for the edits, or lack thereof, and enjoyed hearing new snippets that I hadn't heard before...  The previously unheard 'Sour Milk Sea' is the highlight, in my opinion...

 

As I suspected, a lot of the rough edges were smoothed over...  the disc has been touted 'The Beatles - Unplugged' by many but, in all honesty, they sound like they are plugged into a PA on this version...  the 'Black Album' version does indeed sound like they're kicking around George's bungalow in an acoustic environment...  it sounds too processed for my ears...  haven't dove into the outtakes yet but am looking forward to it...  wanna savour the moment for you never know when "new" Beatles material will materialize again...:-)

10 November 2018
3.37am
DingoJarr
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I hated the Pepper remix - not so much because of how it was mixed, as I actually think some songs are significantly improved, e.g. Good Morning Good Morning - but because of the awful brickwall mastering (ok, not technically "brickwalled" but still very, very compressed/limited). It's like a coiled spring, eager to burst free, but just can't because it's so constrained. It actually makes my ears cry. I think it is no coincidence that the first Beatles release to suffer from the Loudness Wars came after Neil Aspinall died. The man had such integrity, and I think he would've protested very strongly at that style of mastering - I mean, it has an average dynamic range of 8, which is like putting it in a straight-jacket. Being for the Benefit of Mr. Kite! has a DR of 6. SIX! That's like Red-Hot-Chilli-Peppers hot.

And so I have zero hope for the White Album . It'll be interesting, as was Pepper, but also unlistenable in the long-term, for me.

 

Maybe in the future there will be an "unlimited" version, like with the McCartney remasters. But I won't hold my breath.

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The Hole Got Fixed
10 November 2018
3.43am
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Shamrock Womlbs
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Mine will arrive next Wednesday n_n
Can't wait to dive into its content. I just hope there's no "History" section in the book as they did with the Sgt. Peppers deluxe book.
About the new mixes i think it's a good thing if they amend those bloody annoying
hard-panning thing tipical Beatle. Just give the right space for each frequency , maybe a bit of clean up... i guess George Martin would have used nowadays technology to that effect had it been available in the 60's

"I Need You by George Harrison"

10 November 2018
5.40am
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The Hole Got Fixed
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Shamrock Womlbs said

About the new mixes i think it's a good thing if they amend those bloody annoying
hard-panning thing tipical Beatle.

Sorry to disappoint, however there are still some places that feature hard-panning. Much less extreme than before though, which definitely means bonus points...

Giles obviously kept some parts of the ethos of 'keep it sounding a bit like the 60s', otherwise I'm sure he wouldn't have done such extreme panning.

 

Speaking of panning, I have to express my utmost appreciation that he centered the vocals of Savoy Truffle . That's driven me nuts for years!

Oh, by the way, this post was made by The Hole Got Fixed!

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