Please consider registering
Guest
sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_Feed sp_TopicIcon
Get Back, Let It Be or Let It Be... Naked
26 March 2018
5.10pm
Avatar
meanmistermustard
Here when I am. Not when I am not.
Moderator
Members

Reviewers


Moderators
Forum Posts: 23285
Member Since:
1 May 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

The headline is very misleading; he arranged and scored two songs, admits the ideas for the orchestration were Phil Spector's, £40 would have been the going rate, and there is a very good chance 'TLAWR' would have been a number one regardless of his work as it was a Beatles single. It's the BBC's fault but it bugs me how it's made out to be more than what it is.

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris)

26 March 2018
11.31pm
Avatar
ewe2
Inside the beat
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 2933
Member Since:
8 January 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Session musicians don't get writing credits no matter what the result. There's a bit of "retroactive credit" being demanded, though. Two come to mind: Kathy Redfern, the secretary who said "big boys don't cry" on I'm Not In Love (I think she was paid a session fee for it) got a settlement much later, but I can't find references to it, and the better claim was Claire Torry's on The Great Gig In The Sky, who was paid a session fee at the time. Both claims have some merit because they were performances (it's difficult to argue that Torry's performance wasn't central), but both were well after the fact. That puts composers/performers in an impossible position: if they were generous later with a bonus you can be that would be used against them too. Session musicians are paid by the record company/studio usually, it's not fair to put the artists on the hook for it as well.

I think you can be assured that any contribution to sessions these days come with a hefty disclaimer to sign before payment.

The following people thank ewe2 for this post:

Ahhh Girl

I'm like Necko only I'm a bassist ukulele guitar synthesizer kazoo penguin and also everyone. Or is everyone me? Now I'm a confused bassist ukulele guitar synthesizer kazoo penguin everyone who is definitely not @Joe.  This has been true for 2016 & 2017 Sig-Badge.png but I may have to get more specific in the future.

aus-flag-v-small.png

27 March 2018
10.00am
BGS
A Beginning
Members
Forum Posts: 3
Member Since:
21 February 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I prefer Naked to Let it Be. It seems a little closer to the original intent but it still has problems with the editing of songs together.

In a perfect world I would want something that truly represented what the Get Back sessions were really about. It would be a 2 to 5 disc release, and include the following:

1) Rehearsals at Twickenham and Apple studios. This could get big depending on how far you want to go. (Adagio for Strings, Crackin'up, Don't let me down, I've Got A Feeling , One After 909 , Because I know you love me so, The Midnight Special, All Things Must Pass , Maxwell's Silver Hammer , Two of Us, Across The Universe , Hear Me Lord , Long and Winding Road, Golden Slumbers , She Came In Through The Bathroom Window , Mean Mr. Mustard, I Me Mine , For You Blue , Commonwealth?, Get Off?, Ramblin' Woman , I threw it All Away, Mama you Been on my Mind, That'll Be the Day, Slippin' and Slidin', Let it Be, Hi Heel Sneakers, Back Seat of My Car, Old Brown Shoe , Dig it, Maggie Mae , Teddy Boy , I Fancy Me Chances, Lady Madonna , Get Back , I Want You, Oh! Darling )

3) Final takes from Apple studios (Two of Us - Take 12, Long and Winding Road - take 19, Let it Be - take 27 A, For You Blue )

4) Live release of Rooftop concert (Get Back - take 1, Get Back - take 2, Don't Let Me Down , I've Got A Feeling , One After 909 , Danny Boy, I've Got A Feeling - take 2, Don't Let Me Down - take 2, Get Back - take 3)

Maybe we will see a deluxe box set some day.

27 March 2018
11.06pm
Avatar
Emmett
Detroit, MI USA
The Jacaranda
Members
Forum Posts: 35
Member Since:
24 March 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Spector was and is insane. He's the most overrated producer in the history of pop music!  His so-called 'wall of sound' is horrible.  I even hate it on 'You've Lost That Loving Feeling.'  During his career, George Martin forgot more about making great sound than Spector ever knew. Just listen to how horrible Spector's sound is on Beatles solo work.  'What Is Life ' sounds like it was recorded in the 50's.  Perhaps recent remixes have improved it, but jeez!  'Instant Karma ' is another example of Spector's bad production.  I rest my case.

The Naked album is fantastic!  Every track is better.  The running order is improved too. And I love that they included 'Don't Let Me Down .'  I always wondered why it wasn't on the original since they played it on the rooftop in the movie. 

When Naked came out, Let It Be went from maybe my 6th fave Beatles album to about my 3rd favorite.  It made that much difference to me. I love it.

At least we can be sure he won't produce any more stuff.  He'll die in prison. He's where he belongs.

If I were stranded on a deserted island and could only bring one album with me, it would be Revolver. 

I just hope that I would have some means of playing it.  Ha ha!

28 March 2018
11.38am
Avatar
sir walter raleigh
In our yellow (IN OUR YELLOW) submarine (SUBMARINE AHA!)
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 5141
Member Since:
26 January 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Emmett said
Spector was and is insane. He's the most overrated producer in the history of pop music!  His so-called 'wall of sound' is horrible.  I even hate it on 'You've Lost That Loving Feeling.'  During his career, George Martin forgot more about making great sound than Spector ever knew. Just listen to how horrible Spector's sound is on Beatles solo work.  'What Is Life ' sounds like it was recorded in the 50's.  Perhaps recent remixes have improved it, but jeez!  'Instant Karma ' is another example of Spector's bad production.  I rest my case.

The Naked album is fantastic!  Every track is better.  The running order is improved too. And I love that they included 'Don't Let Me Down .'  I always wondered why it wasn't on the original since they played it on the rooftop in the movie. 

One point to solidify your argument is the superiority of McCartney’s home mix of Teddy Boy over Spector’s. It wasn’t a fully fleshed out song to he fair, but the Spector mix is just terrible. 

I’m here and there on the production of All Things Must Pass , many moments in Hear Me Lord , Run Of The Mill , and Awaiting On You All are some of my favorite production moments, while Let It Down and Wah Wah are worsened in my opinion. 

One thing I will say until I die is that Brian Wilson is 1000x as good a producer as Spector, and Phil knew it. Brian’s idolization of Phil Spector was key to his development as a producer, but he eclipsed him early in his career. 

I love what @Emmett said

“During his career, George Martin forgot more about making great sound than Spector ever knew.”

The following people thank sir walter raleigh for this post:

Beatlebug, SgtPeppersBulldog

"The pump don't work cause the vandals took the handles!"

-Bob Dylan, Subterranean Homesick Blues

"We could ride and surf together while our love would grow"

-Brian Wilson, Surfer Girl

28 March 2018
11.50am
Avatar
Ron Nasty
Apple rooftop
Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 10926
Member Since:
17 December 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

@sir walter raleigh said
One point to solidify your argument is the superiority of McCartney’s home mix of Teddy Boy over Spector’s. It wasn’t a fully fleshed out song to he fair, but the Spector mix is just terrible.

To my knowledge, Spector never mixed Teddy Boy . The mixes of The Beatles version that were done were done by Glyn Johns for the aborted Get Back  album. It never figured in Spector's plans for Let It Be .

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

To @ Ron Nasty it's @ mja6758
The Beatles Bible 2020 non-Canon Poll Part One: 1958-1963 and Part Two: 1964-August 1966

28 March 2018
11.58am
Avatar
sir walter raleigh
In our yellow (IN OUR YELLOW) submarine (SUBMARINE AHA!)
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 5141
Member Since:
26 January 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

@Ron Nasty  said

@sir walter raleigh said
One point to solidify your argument is the superiority of McCartney’s home mix of Teddy Boy over Spector’s. It wasn’t a fully fleshed out song to he fair, but the Spector mix is just terrible.

To my knowledge, Spector never mixed Teddy Boy . The mixes of The Beatles version that were done were done by Glyn Johns for the aborted Get Back  album. It never figured in Spector's plans for Let It Be .  

From Mark Lewisohn's The Beatles' Recording Sessions

 

Screen-Shot-2018-03-28-at-9.56.39-AM.pngImage Enlarger

Spector did two mixes of 'Teddy Boy ', one faithful to the 25 January 1969 recording, the other a considerable edit, bringing the duration down to 3'10".

The following people thank sir walter raleigh for this post:

Beatlebug

"The pump don't work cause the vandals took the handles!"

-Bob Dylan, Subterranean Homesick Blues

"We could ride and surf together while our love would grow"

-Brian Wilson, Surfer Girl

28 March 2018
12.00pm
Avatar
sir walter raleigh
In our yellow (IN OUR YELLOW) submarine (SUBMARINE AHA!)
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 5141
Member Since:
26 January 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I can't find the link to the mix on Youtube, but I was listening to it this morning from my iTunes Library. Titled Teddy Boy (24.22) (Phil Spector RM1) according to tracks from @meanmistermustard 

"The pump don't work cause the vandals took the handles!"

-Bob Dylan, Subterranean Homesick Blues

"We could ride and surf together while our love would grow"

-Brian Wilson, Surfer Girl

28 March 2018
12.07pm
Avatar
Ron Nasty
Apple rooftop
Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 10926
Member Since:
17 December 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Good call, I had forgotten that was among the escapees.

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

To @ Ron Nasty it's @ mja6758
The Beatles Bible 2020 non-Canon Poll Part One: 1958-1963 and Part Two: 1964-August 1966

28 March 2018
12.33pm
Avatar
Beatlebug
Find me where ye echo lays
Moderator

Moderators
Forum Posts: 17348
Member Since:
15 February 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Someone else correcting Ron Nasty on a technical point of Beatles history? I never thought I'd live to see the day. Congratulations @sir walter raleigh john-lennon-salute_gif
a-hard-days-night-george-10 apple01

The following people thank Beatlebug for this post:

SgtPeppersBulldog, WeepingAtlasCedars

~ Ram On ~
New to Forumpool? You can introduce yourself here.
ScotsIrishFlag-1.jpeg Blueberries1.png Vietnam Heritage and Freedom Flag
StarSpangledBanner.png

4 March 2020
6.19am
Avatar
Dingle Lad
Detroit Rock Citizen
Carnegie Hall
Members
Forum Posts: 610
Member Since:
28 February 2020
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

fabfouremily said
The point of LIBN was to make the album that they originally intended to make. No overdubs, no string arrangements, certainly no choirs.. That's why it was made, not because there was anything wrong with LIB . I don't think Paul was trying to make himself more predominant on it at all. I know you really love John, ExText, but do you really think that that's fair?

  

You really don't know what LIBN is about. It's more of a Frankenstein monster than the original was. I'm not saying this to be confrontational. You really need to do some research on how it was put together. 

What is happening? And tell me how you've been.

4 March 2020
6.37am
Avatar
meanmistermustard
Here when I am. Not when I am not.
Moderator
Members

Reviewers


Moderators
Forum Posts: 23285
Member Since:
1 May 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Dingle Lad said

fabfouremily said

The point of LIBN was to make the album that they originally intended to make. No overdubs, no string arrangements, certainly no choirs.. That's why it was made, not because there was anything wrong with LIB . I don't think Paul was trying to make himself more predominant on it at all. I know you really love John, ExText, but do you really think that that's fair?

  

You really don't know what LIBN is about. It's more of a Frankenstein monster than the original was. I'm not saying this to be confrontational. You really need to do some research on how it was put together. 

  

I think the original concept was the Beatles as nature intended, however, Apple could not allow the world to see flawed Beatles on such an album with the flubbed lyrics and wrong chords so they had to fix them (they were trying to make it almost perfect so to correct the perceived wrongs on Spector's). The result was a complete mess made worse by the tripe spouted during all the promotion. I also don't think Paul set out to increase his appearance count but that was always going to happen as soon as 'Maggie Mae ' and Dig It ' were removed due to the lack of numbers from John. It should be remembered that 'DLMD' was added so John's total was only down by one, and he would have been on it if going by minutes and seconds (ignoring all the dialogue that was cut).

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris)

4 March 2020
6.41am
Avatar
Dingle Lad
Detroit Rock Citizen
Carnegie Hall
Members
Forum Posts: 610
Member Since:
28 February 2020
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

My personal  OPINION is that Let it Be .. Naked came out because Paul wanted a version of The Long And Winding Road on the market that sounded good to his ears. I've always thought his whining attitude over Spector's treatment of this song is sour grapes. The song itself is pure schmaltz and begs to have the syrup that Spector lathered on it. Spector's greatest harm was actually done to Across The Universe . I suppose that Naked rights that wrong too, but the Anthology II version is still the best to be found. Seriously, other than the three songs where Spector added the strings and choir are  the songs on album that much different than the original on a cursory listen?

The following people thank Dingle Lad for this post:

lovelyritametermaid, The Hole Got Fixed

What is happening? And tell me how you've been.

4 March 2020
7.02am
Avatar
Dingle Lad
Detroit Rock Citizen
Carnegie Hall
Members
Forum Posts: 610
Member Since:
28 February 2020
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

meanmistermustard said

Dingle Lad said

fabfouremily said

The point of LIBN was to make the album that they originally intended to make. No overdubs, no string arrangements, certainly no choirs.. That's why it was made, not because there was anything wrong with LIB . I don't think Paul was trying to make himself more predominant on it at all. I know you really love John, ExText, but do you really think that that's fair?

  

You really don't know what LIBN is about. It's more of a Frankenstein monster than the original was. I'm not saying this to be confrontational. You really need to do some research on how it was put together. 

  

I think the original concept was the Beatles as nature intended, however, Apple could not allow the world to see flawed Beatles on such an album with the flubbed lyrics and wrong chords so they had to fix them (they were trying to make it almost perfect so to correct the perceived wrongs on Spector's). The result was a complete mess made worse by the tripe spouted during all the promotion. I also don't think Paul set out to increase his appearance count but that was always going to happen as soon as 'Maggie Mae ' and Dig It ' were removed due to the lack of numbers from John. It should be remembered that 'DLMD' was added so John's total was only down by one, and he would have been on it if going by minutes and seconds (ignoring all the dialogue that was cut).

  

The John's mixes are a real mess and he also picked some of the wrong versions. Spector did a much better job picking out which takes to use and most are used at least in part for the Naked album. Also, at least in theory, the album was supposed to be a soundtrack so Spector's soundbites gave it a more documentary feel and that was appropriate. John may have lost two "songs' on the album but time wise he does gain a bit.  

I'm not saying Naked isn't worth a listen or even a hundred. It's the Beatles, man. I just don't like the reason for it's existence. 

The following people thank Dingle Lad for this post:

lovelyritametermaid

What is happening? And tell me how you've been.

4 March 2020
7.10am
Avatar
lovelyritametermaid
You can meet me after heavy rain has fallen
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1392
Member Since:
5 December 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I actually like the Naked version of TL&WR a lot more than the LIB version; however, I agree that Paul's reasoning for doing the whole Naked thing was superficial and unnecessary. 

The following people thank lovelyritametermaid for this post:

Dingle Lad, The Hole Got Fixed

"....When I cannot sing my heart, I can only speak my mind...." 

"....This ain't no party, this ain't no disco, this ain't no fooling around...."

  StarSpangledBanner-1.png              #BlackLivesMatter

4 March 2020
9.10am
Avatar
meanmistermustard
Here when I am. Not when I am not.
Moderator
Members

Reviewers


Moderators
Forum Posts: 23285
Member Since:
1 May 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I hate the 'TWAWR' on 'Naked', Billy's solo is horrendous, sounding weak and amateurish. 'ATU' is the most successful of the tracks but there is an even better version out there which is more like the 'Past Masters ' mix but speed corrected, more sparse and the awful backing vocals mixed way down. 'One After 909 ' is a decent remix but sounds cold due to the instant harsh ending (tho that's more to do with what's ingrained in my brain). Why they cut and pasted different performances of 'DLMD' and 'IGAF' I'll never understand?

 

What bugs me instantly is that it's meant to be 'Naked', no overdubs, no fiddling, no editing, no jumping back and forth, simply as it was at the time. So fine. Go with that.

First up, 'Get Back '. The coda was a different performance so that had to go (just ignore that a coda was always part of the song and it sounds stupid without it, it's gone going by the rules so fair enough).

Next.

'Dig A Pony '. Erm. Where are the "All I Want Is Do" vocals which should be at the start? Oh. They've been edited out!!

Two songs in and the concept is completely fucked already

 

One read of the wiki entry reveals how much they screwed with it all.

 

But wait? We have the 'Fly On The Wall' bonus disc to delight in.

That was such a piece of pointless shit. I played it once, felt utterly underwhelmed and cheated and have never went near it again.

The cover is shit, the booklet crap.

The following people thank meanmistermustard for this post:

lovelyritametermaid, ewe2, Dingle Lad, Von Bontee

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris)

4 March 2020
9.53am
Avatar
ewe2
Inside the beat
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 2933
Member Since:
8 January 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Yeah, ATU is the one thing I don't mind on that album. Everything else is literally zombie Beatles, made from bits and pieces, cobbled together, groaning and tottering under its own weight. It speaks volumes about the anxiety attached to the whole project for decades that we are effectively getting makeover #3 via the movie, hoping against hope that this time's the charm, that it will stick or at least leave a vague warm aftertaste that can be lived with. God knows what monstrosities they'll come up with using the movie as an excuse to chop in bits from god knows where. I don't think we can get anything more truthful for another generation, and new ears can dispense with the patchwork orthodoxy.

I'm like Necko only I'm a bassist ukulele guitar synthesizer kazoo penguin and also everyone. Or is everyone me? Now I'm a confused bassist ukulele guitar synthesizer kazoo penguin everyone who is definitely not @Joe.  This has been true for 2016 & 2017 Sig-Badge.png but I may have to get more specific in the future.

aus-flag-v-small.png

4 March 2020
12.50pm
Avatar
meanmistermustard
Here when I am. Not when I am not.
Moderator
Members

Reviewers


Moderators
Forum Posts: 23285
Member Since:
1 May 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

To move the focus a little away from flogging ’Naked’, I think Spector did a pretty good job overall. Yes, there are issues but there were always going to be due to the material he had to work with. It wasn't a simply matter of dumping it on George Martins’s mixing desk and getting an instant classic 2 weeks later.
The ’Get Back ’ albums show that as the recordings on those were far too bare for Apple to sanction at the time; rambling performances of ’Save The Last Dance’ and ’Don’t Let Me Down’ for example. Now, it's 50 years later and anyone interested enough can hunt them down online and hear them within 3 minutes. They are good albums if you accept what they are and don’t go expecting perfection. 

If Apple have the guts they will put at least one out in May and let the Beatles finally be truly ‘naked’ with all of it hanging out and let their charisma, talent and honesty do the talking after all these years instead of the hype and bullshit that has been. I doubt they will, I hope I’m wrong. Apple cannot help themselves with needing the Beatles image and reputation to be dust-free so instantly you can forget John uttering “who the fuck’s Doris!” being included. They edited out him saying “oh shit! Wrong chord” on the 2018 deluxe ‘White Album ’ after all. 

Like ewe2, I expect some hodge-podge concoction best-of that gives us a perfect performance of ‘All Things Must Pass ’ edited from 14 different performances over 5 different days, probably with Ringo newly tapping the hi-hat. If I’m wrong and they do it properly I’ll happily kiss all Apple executives on the forehead. 

The following people thank meanmistermustard for this post:

lovelyritametermaid, ewe2, Von Bontee

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris)

7 March 2020
8.17pm
Avatar
Vera Chuck and Dave
London Palladium
Members
Forum Posts: 145
Member Since:
25 February 2020
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I'm listening to this version of Get Back and enjoying it!

16 March 2020
3.08pm
Avatar
William Shears Campbell
The Great Wall City Of Salt Lake
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 3360
Member Since:
14 June 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
100sp_Permalink sp_Print

If they were gonna change the tracklist, they should have at least made it reflective of the original Get Back album.  And speaking of Get Back , that song is the worst song on this album, and that's coming from me who usually likes the song in other contexts.  It's like they were deciding whether to use the chatter from the album version or the coda on the single version and then someone piped up with the bright idea to use neither and instead end the song with an awkward fade out.  It's a shame that it opens up the album too.  It always puts a bad taste in my mouth.

Here | There | Everywhere

The one and only Billy Shears (AKA Paul's Replacement)

2016:New-member-Badge.png

2017:S2016MSKCTA.jpg"He still remains active while being away."

Forum Timezone: America/Chicago
Most Users Ever Online: 700
Currently Online: Joe, Starr Shine?
Guest(s) 1
Top Posters:
Starr Shine?: 15940
Ron Nasty: 10926
50yearslate: 8627
Necko: 7911
AppleScruffJunior: 7225
parlance: 7111
mr. Sun king coming together: 6403
Mr. Kite: 6147
trcanberra: 6064
sir walter raleigh: 5141
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 87
Members: 2592
Moderators: 6
Admins: 1
Forum Stats:
Groups: 3
Forums: 44
Topics: 4913
Posts: 351434
Newest Members:
the_chomby, Sexy Sadie, The rose on the hill, Hello little quarrygirl, MickeyMoussie
Moderators: Joe: 5119, Zig: 9812, meanmistermustard: 23285, Ahhh Girl: 19502, Beatlebug: 17348, The Hole Got Fixed: 7968
Administrators: Joe: 5119