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Where's the love for "Help!"?
17 February 2017
8.40am
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Zig
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William Shears Campbell said
If you take this album as it is and not look too much into it, it really is a nice album.  

Amen, brother. I've said before that if I was to introduce someone to The Beatles for the first time, it would be with AHDN and Help !.

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To the fountain of perpetual mirth, let it roll for all its worth. And all the children boogie.

17 February 2017
2.49pm
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The Hole Got Fixed
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Zig said

Amen, brother. I've said before that if I was to introduce someone to The Beatles for the first time, it would be with AHDN and Help !.  

Nah, throw them in the deep end with (my favourites) Revolver , Magical Mystery Tour and Sgt Pepper 's. 

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19 February 2017
7.16pm
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Bongo
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Where's the help for love? heart

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19 February 2017
8.47pm
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William Shears Campbell
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29 March 2017
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Elementary Penguin
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I think Help ! is a solid album.

I wish Dizzy Miss Lizzy was a B-side or put on an EP and they put I'm Down as the closer as I think that would have worked much better and the album would have closed with three McCartney songs that all sound different from the other.

I would probably remove Act Naturally as well so the album would be all originals but there wasn't many options to replace it with anything that is much better though.

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29 March 2017
4.07am
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The Hole Got Fixed
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I love Dizzy Miss Lizzy and Act Naturally . I can't work out all the hate for those two. What makes them worthy of the widespread hate?

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29 March 2017
12.20pm
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PeterWeatherby
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Elementary Penguin said
I think Help ! is a solid album.

I wish Dizzy Miss Lizzy was a B-side or put on an EP and they put I'm Down as the closer as I think that would have worked much better and the album would have closed with three McCartney songs that all sound different from the other.

I would probably remove Act Naturally as well so the album would be all originals but there wasn't many options to replace it with anything that is much better though.  

The decision to add "Dizzy Miss Lizzy " was a last-minute choice by George Martin during the post-production phase, because he wasn't thrilled with the version of "Wait " they had completed, and neither "If You've Got Trouble " or "That Means A Lot " were considered good enough for an album.

He still needed to fill 14 tracks, though, and since they had only just recorded "Dizzy Miss Lizzy " and shipped it off to the USA so that Capitol could include it on the Beatles VI album, it was a fresh track that he could use to take the place of "Wait ." It also helped him stick to his preferred method of ending an album with a solid rock-and-roll piece, but honestly, I think that's the reason why I and so many other people dislike this song.

You've just gotten lulled in by the beauty of "Yesterday " and then, suddenly, you're rudely jerked out of that by this loud, screechy guitar lick. It's too much of a contrast between those final two tracks. I'm always irritable when the final track starts blaring.

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Not a bit like Cagney.

29 March 2017
12.22pm
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PeterWeatherby
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The Hole Got Fixed said

Nah, throw them in the deep end with (my favourites) Revolver , Magical Mystery Tour and Sgt Pepper 's.   

Depends on the individual, right? I tried to get a friend of mine into The Beatles with some of the early stuff, and he thought it was just "ok" but not great. Later, on his own, he went off and got The White Album and Abbey Road . The next time I saw him he was all excited and saying, "Why didn't you tell me they had stuff like this? Why were you holding out on me?"

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Not a bit like Cagney.

29 March 2017
3.26pm
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The Hole Got Fixed
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As I very rarely listen to an album in order, I take each song on its merits. Also, I hate Yesterday , so any song that follows it will naturally be good, or at least in theory.

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29 March 2017
4.08pm
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PeterWeatherby
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The Hole Got Fixed said
As I very rarely listen to an album in order

Just out of curiosity, what's your age demographic?

Not a bit like Cagney.

29 March 2017
4.25pm
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The Hole Got Fixed
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Turned 15 a month ago. 

That explains it, I know. But I'm always trying to be contrary, thus not liking modern music, liking Beatles, etc. 

Oh, by the way, this post was made by The Hole Got Fixed!

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29 March 2017
6.02pm
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PeterWeatherby
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The Hole Got Fixed said
Turned 15 a month ago. 

That explains it, I know. But I'm always trying to be contrary, thus not liking modern music, liking Beatles, etc.   

Nothing wrong with that!

I'm part of a sort of "crossover generation" in terms of music formats. I mostly listened to cassettes and, when I could afford them, CDs, but a lot of my first experiences with The Beatles were with my dad's vinyl collection. So, you know, not a lot of "skip this song" opportunities in that format. I think in later years, when I moved on to mp3s and (more recently) streaming services like Spotify, I came to it with that mindset that I'd grew up on -- i.e, when you listen to The Beatles, it's an album at a time, not a lot of skipping around.

And now that I'm collecting the vinyl on my own? Forget it. Listening to an album is an event.

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Not a bit like Cagney.

29 March 2017
6.21pm
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Dark Overlord
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For not listening to things as a whole album, I rarely do because a lot of albums can be easily reassembled without much change in the quality of the tracklisting. For example, Beatles For Sale was significantly modified here in the US and split up into 2 albums, side A with a couple of tracks from side B as well as the I Feel Fine single and I'll Be Back from their previous UK album as Beatles 65' and side B with Kansas City from side A as well as 3 tracks from the Help ! album and 2 non-album tracks as Beatles VI, or another example would be if I altered an album's tracklist to improve it. Here's Let It Be with a modified tracklist to have it better fit in with the movie and it has the entire side B recorded live on the roof:

LetItBe.jpg

Tracklisting:

Side A:

Two Of Us

Maxwell's Silver Hammer

For You Blue

I Want You

The Long And Winding Road

Let It Be

Side B:

Get Back

Don't Let Me Down

I've Got A Feeling

One After 909

Dig A Pony

Get Back (Reprise)

However, there are some albums that shouldn't be separated or rearranged, such as Dark Side Of The Moon or Sgt. Pepper 's Lonely Hearts Club Band and this is why 8 tracks piss me off so much, just look at how they tried to murder Sgt. Pepper .

a_sgt8_f.jpg

Who's stupid f***ed up idea was it to not end with A Day In The Life , did they have a drunk 2 year old decide the track order or was this some form of passive aggressive revenge by the record company to encourage people not to buy 8 tracks.

As for modern music, it really does suck and lacks instrumental talent, but that's a topic for the Pet Peeves thread.

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29 March 2017
9.25pm
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Into the Sky with Diamonds
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@PeterWeatherby   "Listening to an album is an event."

Love that.

You stare at the album cover until it's embedded in your brain. You know every song that's coming next.

A phenomenal experience on a great album.

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30 March 2017
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PeterWeatherby
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Into the Sky with Diamonds said
@PeterWeatherby   "Listening to an album is an event."

Love that.

You stare at the album cover until it's embedded in your brain. You know every song that's coming next.

A phenomenal experience on a great album.  

It really is an engagement of many different physical senses: you're hearing the music, but there's also the touch/smell of the vinyl and cardboard, and with the larger size of an LP album cover, you get these great large-print photos and other artwork to stare at while the music is playing. You go over every little detail. I'd sit there, as a kid, and read the liner notes on the Beatles albums, because it might tell you who was playing what instruments!

These days I treat vinyl like I would treat sitting down to watch a show. I sit down, I don't have any other distractions, I have the album cover in front of me, and I listen to the whole thing, front-to-back.

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Not a bit like Cagney.

10 May 2017
4.52pm
Ram4
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Dark Overlord said

However, there are some albums that shouldn't be separated or rearranged, such as Dark Side Of The Moon or Sgt. Pepper 's Lonely Hearts Club Band and this is why 8 tracks piss me off so much, just look at how they tried to murder Sgt. Pepper .

a_sgt8_f.jpg

Who's stupid f***ed up idea was it to not end with A Day In The Life , did they have a drunk 2 year old decide the track order or was this some form of passive aggressive revenge by the record company to encourage people not to buy 8 tracks.

As for modern music, it really does suck and lacks instrumental talent, but that's a topic for the Pet Peeves thread.  

I have a pet peeve too.  Reading comments from someone who assumes the song order was reshuffled on purpose.  They couldn't end the album with it.  8-tracks had to be timed perfectly even on the 4 programs even if they have to CUT the song in half.  Sorry for asking, but how old are you?  Did you ever own an 8-track player?  Yeah it was annoying.  But then again it wasn't.  It was the closest thing to a CD player back then if you wanted to at least be able to immediately go to 4 different songs on an album at anytime.  Yes, that didn't mean the beginning of the song, but we were used to it back then.  You knew where you were on the tape.  You knew a song was coming up when you got to a certain part of another song on a different program.

Let me explain for those of you who are unaware.  An 8-track tape doesn't have an end - it is a continuous tape that goes around and around forever.  There was no play button nor rewind nor fast forward.  You'd insert it into the tape deck and it started playing immediately.  There were always 4 programs to choose from or think of it as 4 radio stations.  If you didn't want to hear what was playing on Program 1 you could hit the Program button and it would change to #2, or #3, or #4.  

So let's say you start at the beginning with Sgt Pepper 's Lonely Hearts Club Band (the opening track) on Program 1.  But you don't want to hear that song.  What do you do?  If you were to hit the Program button, you would now be on Program 2 listening to Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds .  Hit the Program button again and you are on Program 3 listening to Within You, Without You.  Hit it again and you are on When I'm 64.  If you want to hear a specific song, you have to go it's program and wait for it to play.  Once the final song on a program had played, it would switch to the next program for you.  And as I said earlier - they have to line up the songs to be timed for each Program to end around the same time.  You couldn't have 25 minutes on one and 10 on another.  This did create some interesting mixes for the 8-track market.  And yes, really long songs would be cut in half over 2 Programs.  Welcome to the 60's and 70's.  That's why A Day In The Life doesn't end the tape.  But like I said - the tape never ends.  Even if A Day In The Life ended, it would switch back to Program 1 automatically and the album would start over.

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10 May 2017
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The Hole Got Fixed
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Thanks for the explanation! I've always wondered why 8-tracks were different, but I've never been able to work out how!

BTW, Dark Overlord (who has had a long absence for some reason) is 18.

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11 May 2017
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Von Bontee
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Ram4 said

I have a pet peeve too.  Reading comments from someone who assumes the song order was reshuffled on purpose.  They couldn't end the album with ADITL.

Sure they could've, and probably should've. There's no reason why Programs 3 and 4 couldn't have been switched, putting "Within You Without You " and "Day In The Life" at the end.

(Yeah, 8-tracks were annoying indeed...but I still bought my share of them between 1979 and '89 or so!)

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11 May 2017
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Are you sure you didn't mean 1969-1979 because 8 tracks weren't being made in 1989, the last commercial ones being released in 1982-1983 and the last ones being released only by mail order in 1988.

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11 May 2017
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Just remember, this is a conversation about Help !

stay-on-topic

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