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Where's the love for "Help!"?
11 May 2017
4.59pm
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Shamrock Womlbs
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I love "Help !".
It's a very nice pop album by one of the finest pop bands in the 60's...
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11 May 2017
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Dark Overlord
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I always thought of The Beatles as a rock band, not a pop band, although you could say that they are pop rock, I wouldn't call them just pop, carrying on.

I love this album and there are quite a few tracks that really stick out to me such as You're Going To Lose That Girl which reminds me of Nowhere Man and Tell Me What You See which is one of the first folk rock songs to have all of it's guitars be electric, in this case John's Fender (I'm not just guessing either, George Martin himself has confirmed that John used his Fender Stratocaster on this song).

What I really like about this album is that for half of the songs we have 100% confirmation from notes that George Martin wrote in 1965 on not just who played what instrument but who played what specific instrument model as well.

beatles_george_martin_help_notes_beatlesstory_ata.png__1072x500_q85_crop_upscale.jpg

Can't say that about any other Beatles album.

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11 May 2017
5.57pm
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Shamrock Womlbs
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I guess the Beatles themselves would prefer to call it rock and roll since that was the style they liked best and the kind of music they started playing. About the pop thing it seems like i'm no the only one:

The Oxford Dictionary of Music states that while pop's "earlier meaning meant concerts appealing to a wide audience ... since the late 1950s, however, pop has had the special meaning of non-classical mus[ic], usually in the form of songs, performed by such artists as the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, ABBA, etc".[12] Grove Music Online also states that "... in the early 1960s, [the term] 'pop music' competed terminologically with beat music [in England], while in the USA its coverage overlapped (as it still does) with that of 'rock and roll'".[2]

I guess Yesterday is not very rock, eh?

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11 May 2017
6.23pm
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Dark Overlord
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There are people who would call bands such as The Beatles and The Beach Boys pop instead of rock and there are some Beatles songs that are more pop than rock such as Good Day Sunshine or Penny Lane but then again there are far more Beatles songs that are definitely more rock than pop such as Hey Bulldog , Revolution , While My Guitar Gently Weeps , Happiness Is A Warm Gun , Yer Blues , Everybody's Got Something To Hide Except For Me And My Monkey, Helter Skelter , Come Together , I Want You (She's So Heavy), the list goes on. Also, if you asked The Beatles if they considered themselves a rock band or a pop band, they'd say rock.

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11 May 2017
7.34pm
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Ron Nasty
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The point you are missing, @Dark Overlord, is that the description of an artist/band being "rock" did not have it's earliest uses until around 1965/66, and did not really come into common usage until 1967.

While The Beatles would have described themselves as a rock group by the end, in their early years the most common description they used themselves was to call themselves a "beat group", while not afraid of the "pop" label either ("It was all the musics...")

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11 May 2017
11.21pm
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Von Bontee
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Dark Overlord said
8 tracks weren't being made in 1989, the last commercial ones being released in 1982-1983 and the last ones being released only by mail order in 1988.  

Sure, but I kept my 8-track player until the early '90s and kept buying old used ones! (Last one I ever purchased was not in '89 but 1991, I remember now.) I'll never forget finding "Magical Mystery Tour " and Led Zep's fourth in '83, and being really pissed off that MMT fell apart after one playing :(...then becoming overjoyed because Zep IV turned out to be a great Great GREAT GREAT GREAT album! 

...but, yeah...stay-on-topic

uh, "Help !". One thing I really don't like about the album is the cover - it's probably my least favourite Beatles canon album cover, along with the debut and LIB . I liked it a little more when I thought they were spelling out "help" in semaphore but it turns out that's not really true...http://legendsrevealed.com/ent.....lbum-help/

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11 May 2017
11.38pm
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sir walter raleigh
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Von Bontee said

uh, "Help !". One thing I really don't like about the album is the cover - it's probably my least favourite Beatles canon album cover, along with the debut and LIB . I liked it a little more when I thought they were spelling out "help" in semaphore but it turns out that's not really true...http://legendsrevealed.com/ent.....-help/  

I like how iconic the Help ! cover is. Similar to Abbey Road , it can be used as a logo. For example, I saw a license plate with the Help ! cover recently.

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11 May 2017
11.46pm
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Dark Overlord
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Actually, I don't think they were trying to spell out help, instead I think they were trying to make it look like they are calling for help and are trying to get people's attention by waving, which is what you would do if you needed help and didn't know flag language. Think of it like sign language, if you want to say hello to a deaf person but don't know sign language, you could just wave.

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12 May 2017
1.45am
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Shamrock Womlbs
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Dark Overlord said
... but then again there are far more Beatles songs that are definitely more rock than pop such as Hey Bulldog , Revolution , While My Guitar Gently Weeps , Happiness Is A Warm Gun , Yer Blues , Everybody's Got Something To Hide Except For Me And My Monkey, Helter Skelter , Come Together , I Want You (She's So Heavy), the list goes on.

So...what happened with their output from '63 until '67 ?? ...

Dark Overlord said
there are far more Beatles songs that are definitely more rock than pop such as

Misery , There's a place, Do You Want To Know A Secret , I'll Get You , From Me To You , I Want To Hold Your Hand , She loves you, Don't bother me, Eight Days A Week , A Hard Day's Night , You can't do that... Help !, You're gonna loose that girl, You've Got To Hide Your Love Away ...Norwegian Wood , Drive My Car , in my life, Nowhere Man , If I Needed Someone , ...Dr. Robert, she said , she said, For No One ...

Dark Overlord said Also, if you asked The Beatles if they considered themselves a rock band or a pop band, they'd say rock.  

I guess you know that as a fact since you and the beatles are very good friends.

Anyways, i think this could be a good theme for a new thread or something, shall we create a new one?...

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12 May 2017
3.04am
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The Beatles classified themselves as a Rock and Roll band. 

George: "The bottom line is, as John said, it was only a little rock'n'roll band. It did a lot and it meant a lot to a lot of people but, you know, it didn't really matter that much."

 "It was quite an astounding experience to have, but at the same time if we weren't in The Beatles we would have been in something else, not necessarily another rock'n'roll band."

 

Ringo: For me it was a really great rock'n'roll band and we made a lot of good music which is still here today.

The quotes are from the 'Anthology' book.

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12 May 2017
4.49am
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Flyingbrians
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I think it's pretty pointless trying to place the Beatles in a genre bracket. Their music was Beatles music and that's what made it so amazing and timeless! So long as you enjoy the music it really doesn't matter how you define it...

As for Help ! I think it's a great album but not as consistantly brilliant as the likes of Rubber Soul or Revolver . You Like Me Too Much and Dizzy Miss Lizzy Let It Down for me slightly (I love Act Naturally by the way). I actually had Help ! above Rubber Soul at one point. 

Also, although it's irrelevant to discussing the album, I don't rate the film very highly at all.

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12 May 2017
10.21am
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Dark Overlord said
I always thought of The Beatles as a rock band, not a pop band, although you could say that they are pop rock, I wouldn't call them just pop, carrying on.
  

Exactly!  You always thought of The Beatles as a rock band, not a pop band.  I always thought of them as a pop/rock band because they did both pop and rock.  But in the end, nobody cares what anyone else thinks on this subject.  It's your own image of the music.  And meanmrmustard, while I appreciate the research - quoting what Ringo or George thought of the band being is irrelevant to me because it was also their opinion.  But since we're quoting them - they also said in their 1966 Los Angeles Press Conference when asked about their "image" - that only you can tell them what their image is to you.  If that means a pop group, then fine.  Overall, I'd say they were definitely more rock than pop if you consider the early albums rock (which I do), but a lot of the middle period is definitely pop to me (not good old rock and roll).  Hence, pop/rock band.  Oh screw it - Oldies.

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12 May 2017
11.16am
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sir walter raleigh
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I'd consider it both pop and rock, because rock and pop are synonymous when the popular music of the time is rock. Culture dictates what pop music is. 

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12 May 2017
9.02pm
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Beatlebug
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@Dark Overlord said
Think of it like sign language, if you want to say hello to a deaf person but don't know sign language, you could just wave.  

I'm pretty sure 'hello' in sign language is waving. john-lennon-salute_gif

The album cover is okay, not that exciting to me personally but it's iconic because it's the Beatles. I do enjoy the album though. It's quite sunshiny, although I feel the production is just a little too slick in some places, lacking the excitement of previous albums and experimental spirit of Rubber Soul ... but I still enjoy it. You're Going To Lose That Girl , It's Only Love , You Like Me Too Much , and I've Just Seen A Face are my favourites. Act Naturally is one of the few country songs, Beatles or otherwise, that I actually enjoy.

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It verges from the sublime to the ridiculote

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12 May 2017
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I think it's interesting how you consider You Like Me Too Much one of your favorites because I think of it as one of The Beatles weakest tracks, although I do like how the solo switches between guitar and piano.

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13 May 2017
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Dark Overlord said
I think it's interesting how you consider You Like Me Too Much one of your favorites because I think of it as one of The Beatles weakest tracks, although I do like how the solo switches between guitar and piano.  

I'm one of the few who likes it. It is pretty weak, but I just like it anyway, not for any particular logical reason.

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13 May 2017
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I also like it. It's a nice song for being the third ever written by it's composer. And i like John's electric piano chords in the background.
I think it's quite better than Tell Me What You See , for example.

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13 May 2017
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@Shamrock Womlbs said
I also like it. It's a nice song for being the third ever written by it's composer.

Fourth -- you're forgetting 'You Know What To Do' (quite a common mistake, even its composer did it, and highly forgivable as, frankly, it's quite a forgettable tune).

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13 May 2017
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It's so forgettable that i forgot to remember to not forget to remember it...
a-hard-days-night-george-10

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Shamrock Womlbs said
I think You Like Me Too Much is quite better than Tell Me What You See .  

But Tell Me What You See is one of my favorite Beatles songs, what other song has Paul sounding like John while John strums open chords on a Fender Strat.

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