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Do you consider Anthology canon
10 June 2016
7.46pm
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sgtpepper63
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I personally do because even though it only has about 30% original/unreleased tracks and 60% outtakes/live tracks, it did something that 1962-1966/1967-1970, Rock And Roll Music , Live At The Hollywood Bowl, Love Songs, Rarities, Ballads, Reel Music, Past Masters , 1, and Love all failed to do, have The Beatles reunite and give us new tracks by them. I personally remember when I first heard about this, I was so shocked that I ran into a brick wall to make sure I wasn't dreaming. The only flaw I have with this album is that they will sometimes have 2 or more versions of the same track back to back. Overall, I feel that it deserves to be in the same league as Please Please Me , With The Beatles , A Hard Day's Night , Beatles For Sale , Help !, Rubber Soul , Revolver , Sgt. Pepper 's Lonely Hearts Club Band, Magical Mystery Tour , The Beatles, Yellow Submarine , Abbey Road , Let It Be , and Past Masters (or in my case Meet The Beatles, The Beatles Second Album, A Hard Day's Night , Something New, The Beatles Story, Beatles 65', The Early Beatles, Beatles VI, Help !, Rubber Soul , Yesterday And Today, Revolver , Sgt. Pepper Lonely Hearts Club Band, Magical Mystery Tour , The Beatles, Yellow Submarine , Abbey Road , Hey Jude , and Let It Be ) but if you disagree I'd like to know too.

10 June 2016
10.28pm
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Bongo
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No, just different versions.

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk38/rickdelsie/The%20Beatles/parlunread_zps28270d9d.gif BEATLES Music gives me Eargasms!  apple01

10 June 2016
11.54pm
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Ron Nasty
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This, I'm afraid, is a subject that has been done to death -

http://www.beatlesbible.com/fo.....anon-poll/ (crops up here and there throughout)

and there is also

http://www.beatlesbible.com/fo.....tles-song/

and I believe it's also argued at times here

http://www.beatlesbible.com/fo.....iscussion/

and there are other threads as well.

To surmise, however, there are two differing camps.

One, the group to which you appear to belong, believes that virtually anything released under the name The Beatles is canon.

There is another group, to which I belong, that views the canon as being the 220 recordings they issued for commercial sale between October 1962 and May 1970, based on the UK album releases (as that was how they configured their work rather than an American Exec looking to milk their work for all they could), with the addition of Capitol's Magical Mystery Tour  and the specially compiled Past Masters  to sweep up the rest (ie. the music as first issued on CD, that makes up their box-sets of their work).

The rest is juvenilia, interesting scribblings in the margins, songs and versions of songs they rejected for release when they were fab.

I never really understand this argument. The Beatles gave us a body of work throughout during the '60s, coming to an end in 1970. Twenty-five years later they decided to give us some radio recordings, and then they followed with sets of private recordings, live recordings, alternate versions, and the rare rejected song. And the suggestion from some is that these private moments, glimpses of them on stage, rejects and remixes rather than offering us a glimpse behind the curtain, backstage, should be stood alongside, and given equal value to, the work they released all those years ago.

What is the canon version of the song where there are alternate versions on Anthology or BBC?

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11 June 2016
8.35am
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sgtpepper63
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Ron Nasty said
This, I'm afraid, is a subject that has been done to death -

http://www.beatlesbible.com/fo.....anon-poll/ (crops up here and there throughout)

and there is also

http://www.beatlesbible.com/fo.....tles-song/

and I believe it's also argued at times here

http://www.beatlesbible.com/fo.....iscussion/

and there are other threads as well.

Sorry, didn't see those, but 2 of them are confusing and the other only considers the new tracks and not the outtakes.

Ron Nasty said
To surmise, however, there are two differing camps.

One, the group to which you appear to belong, believes that virtually anything released under the name The Beatles is canon.

There is another group, to which I belong, that views the canon as being the 220 recordings they issued for commercial sale between October 1962 and May 1970, based on the UK album releases (as that was how they configured their work rather than an American Exec looking to milk their work for all they could), with the addition of Capitol's Magical Mystery Tour  and the specially compiled Past Masters  to sweep up the rest (ie. the music as first issued on CD, that makes up their box-sets of their work).

The rest is juvenilia, interesting scribblings in the margins, songs and versions of songs they rejected for release when they were fab.

Here's what I consider their discography to be:

UK:

Studio Albums: (all the way The Beatles wanted it, which is mono unless stated otherwise)

1963 - Please Please Me

1963 - With The Beatles

1964 - A Hard Day's Night

1964 - Beatles For Sale

1965 - Help !

1965 - Rubber Soul

1966 - Revolver

1966 - A Collection Of Beatles Oldies (almost everything that is on Past Masters was either released on A Collection Of Beatles Oldies, Rarities, or Hey Jude and there are very few tracks on 2 or more of these albums)

1967 - Sgt. Pepper 's Lonely Hearts Club Band

1968 - The Beatles (The Beatles most likely planned Helter Skelter and Revolution 9 for stereo as Helter Skelter is a lot shorter in mono and Revolution 9 is a fold down)

1969 - Yellow Submarine (stereo, mono is just a fold down)

1969 - Abbey Road (stereo)

1970 - Let It Be (stereo)

1970 - From Then To You (not commercial, but nonetheless I know 3 people who own it (including myself, 2 US versions, 1 UK version) and it's not like this has been released elsewhere)

1976 - Magical Mystery Tour (It's like adding bonus tracks to an EP and releasing it 10 years later)

1978 - Rarities (almost everything that is on Past Masters was either released on A Collection Of Beatles Oldies, Rarities, or Hey Jude and there are very few tracks on 2 or more of these albums)

1979 - Hey Jude (almost everything that is on Past Masters was either released on A Collection Of Beatles Oldies, Rarities, or Hey Jude and there are very few tracks on 2 or more of these albums)

1995 - Anthology

2013 - Live At The BBC Volume 2: On Air

Live Albums:

1977 - The Beatles At The Hollywood Bowl

Compilation Albums:

1973 - 1962-1966/1967-1970

1976 - Rock And Roll Music

1977 - Love Songs

1980 - The Beatles Ballads

1982 - Reel Music

1982 - 20 Greatest Hits

1988 - Past Masters

1999 - Yellow Submarine Songtrack

2000 - 1

Albums I don't know where to put:

Anything with Tony Sheridan singing or anything by a label that isn't Parlophone or Apple

2003 - Let It Be Naked

2006 - Love

US:

Studio Albums:

1964 - Meet The Beatles

1964 - The Beatles Second Album

1964 - A Hard Day's Night

1964 - Something New

1964 - The Beatles Story

1964 - Beatles 65'

1965 - The Early Beatles

1965 - Beatles VI

1965 - Help !

1965 - Rubber Soul

1966 - Yesterday And Today

1966 - Revolver

1967 - Sgt. Pepper 's Lonely Hearts Club Band

1967 - Magical Mystery Tour

1968 - The Beatles

1969 - Yellow Submarine

1969 - Abbey Road

1970 - Hey Jude

1970 - Let It Be

1971 - The Beatles Christmas Album

1980 - The Beatles Rarities

1994 - Live At The BBC

1995 - Anthology

2013 - Live At The BBC Volume 2: On Air

Live Albums:

1977 - The Beatles At The Hollywood Bowl

Compilation Albums:

1973 - 1962-1966/1967-1970

1976 - Rock And Roll Music

1977 - Love Songs

1980 - The Beatles Ballads

1982 - Reel Music

1982 - 20 Greatest Hits

1988 - Past Masters

1999 - Yellow Submarine Songtrack

2000 - 1

Albums I don't know where to put:

Anything with Tony Sheridan singing or anything by a label that isn't Parlophone or Apple

2003 - Let It Be Naked

2006 - Love

Ron Nasty said
I never really understand this argument. The Beatles gave us a body of work throughout during the '60s, coming to an end in 1970. Twenty-five years later they decided to give us some radio recordings, and then they followed with sets of private recordings, live recordings, alternate versions, and the rare rejected song. And the suggestion from some is that these private moments, glimpses of them on stage, rejects and remixes rather than offering us a glimpse behind the curtain, backstage, should be stood alongside, and given equal value to, the work they released all those years ago.

What is the canon version of the song where there are alternate versions on Anthology or BBC?

P1: They actually went into the studio to record new songs, that's the difference.

P2: Both of them, Yellow Submarine was on both Revolver and Yellow Submarine , All You Need Is Love was on both Yellow Submarine and Magical Mystery Tour , so why can't we say that Lend Me Your Comb was on both Live At The BBC and Anthology.

11 June 2016
10.14am
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Ron Nasty
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While I find it hard to disagree with what you consider their discography, @sgtpepper63, I do not consider their whole discography as being their canon, and am far from alone in that. Many here believe that the canon is made up of the 220 recordings they released between their first Parlophone single in 1962 and the Let It Be  album emerging during their death throes in 1970.

The surviving Beatles and Apple defined the canon when they transferred their music to CD in the '80s:

Please Please Me
With The Beatles
A Hard Day's Night
Beatles For Sale
Help !
Rubber Soul
Revolver
Sgt. Pepper 's Lonely Hearts Club Band
Magical Mystery Tour
The Beatles
Yellow Submarine
Abbey Road
Let It Be
Past Masters

Those are all the albums you need to own to own every recording the group commercially released while they were a functioning group.

Those 220 recordings are the canon at the most basic level. To a large degree, it doesn't matter whether you're listening to With The Beatles  or Meet The Beatles, you're listening to canon Beatles recordings. If you step it up a level to albums, then the UK albums, with the logical addition of MMT and PM, are the canon. That isn't to comment one way or another on the Capitol albums. However, if you consider an album as a playlist, in my honest opinion, I think a playlist created by The Beatles and George Martin has more weight to be considered as how they wanted the music heard rather than a playlist thrown together by a Capitol exec. You can have all the love you want for the Capitol albums, but you cannot argue they were the albums as The Beatles wanted them.

I think you misunderstood my point about different versions if you call everything canon. I wasn't talking about the same version appearing on different albums. Yellow Submarine  on Revolver  is a canon recording on a canon album. Yellow Submarine  on Yellow Submarine  is a canon recording on a canon album. Yellow Submarine  on 1962-1966 is a canon recording on a non-canon album. However, as an Anthology single b-side, there was an alternate/newly created version of the song. My point, you call both the canon version of Yellow Submarine , then you need to go on to explain that the Revolver /Yellow Submarine /1962-1966 is the proper version, while the Anthology b-side is just for fun and educational purposes.

Calling everything canon creates a situation where you have to further differentiate between career releases and archive releases. I don't see the point in that and so call the 220 their canon while everything forms their oeuvre.

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11 June 2016
10.28am
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The Hippie Chick
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Yep, absolutely everything RN said there. a-hard-days-night-ringo-8

“She wasn't doing a thing that I could see, except standing there leaning on the balcony railing, holding the universe together.”  - J.D. Salinger

11 June 2016
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sgtpepper63
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@Ron Nasty

As much as I love the Capitol stereo 1st pressings, I can't disagree that the way The Beatles intended it is the true way there supposed to be. However, the way they originally intended it and the canon are two different things. Let me explain:

The way The Beatles originally intended:

Love Me Do /P.S. I Love You (mono)

Please Please Me /Ask Me Why (mono)

Please Please Me (mono)

From Me To You /Thank You Girl  (mono)

She Loves You /I'll Get You  (mono)

With The Beatles (mono)

I Want To Hold Your Hand /This Boy  (mono)

Can't Buy Me Love (mono)

Long Tall Sally (mono)

A Hard Day's Night (mono)

A Hard Day's Night /I Should Have Known Better (mono)

Beatles For Sale (mono)

I Feel Fine /She's A Woman  (mono)

Ticket To Ride /Yes It Is  (mono)

Help !/I'm Down  (mono)

Help ! (mono)

Rubber Soul (mono)

Day Tripper /We Can Work It Out (mono)

Revolver (mono)

Eleanor Rigby /Yellow Submarine (mono)

Paperback Writer /Rain (mono)

Strawberry Fields Forever /Penny Lane (mono)

Sgt. Pepper 's Lonely Hearts Club Band (mono)

All You Need Is Love /Baby You're A Rich Man (mono)

Hello, Goodbye /I Am The Walrus (mono)

Magical Mystery Tour (mono EP)

Lady Madonna /The Inner Light (mono)

Hey Jude /Revolution (mono, even though some say that the version of Hey Jude here is just a stereo fold down)

The Beatles (mono, except for Revolution 9 and Helter Skelter , which were most likely made for stereo)

Yellow Submarine (stereo)

Get Back /Don't Let Me Down (mono)

The Ballad Of John And Yoko /Old Brown Shoe (stereo)

Come Together /Something (stereo)

Abbey Road (stereo)

Let It Be (stereo)

Canon: (everything in stereo except where noted)

Please Please Me (Love Me Do and P.S. I Love You are in mono)

With The Beatles

A Hard Day's Night

Beatles For Sale

Help !

Rubber Soul

Revolver

Sgt. Pepper 's Lonely Hearts Club Band

The Beatles

Yellow Submarine

Abbey Road

Let It Be

Magical Mystery Tour (1976 version)

Past Masters (Love Me Do , She Loves You , and I'll Get You are in mono, it is unknown whether You Know My Name (Look Up The Number) was recorded using mono or stereo tape)

Also, either you're getting canon confused with studio album or I'm getting canon confused with official release because 1962-1966 was an official release by Apple. I don't consider Live At The Star Club, Introducing The Beatles, Anything with Tony Sheridan on it, I Saw Her Standing There 2013, or any VeeJay album release canon in any timeline. Finally, I wouldn't call anything after Lady Madonna from a fully functioning band either.

11 June 2016
12.41pm
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meanmistermustard
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I have no idea what the last few posts have been about due to the long lists but the canon was set by Apple in 1987 and is every song in the 2009 box set - ignoring the stereo/mono aspect and whatever are on the dvds.

thebeatles-stereobox-productshot3.jpgImage Enlarger

The discography consists of every official release by Parlophone/EMI/Apple since 1962. Please lets not get thinking that 'Love Songs' or 'Reel Music' is anywhere close to being considered the same as 'Revolver ' or 'With The Beatles '.

The Anthology discs are compilations of previously unreleased material.

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11 June 2016
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Ahhh Girl
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To @ Ron Nasty, use mja6758.

Some user with the screen name of Ron is Ron Nasty's notifications.

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sgtpepper63
11 June 2016
2.15pm
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sgtpepper63
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Ahhh Girl said
To @ Ron Nasty, use mja6758.

Some user with the screen name of Ron is Ron Nasty's notifications.  

Thanks, now I know why when I click on Ron Nasty, it pops up as mja6758.

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11 June 2016
2.27pm
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sgtpepper63
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meanmistermustard said
I have no idea what the last few posts have been about due to the long lists but the canon was set by Apple in 1987 and is every song in the 2009 box set - ignoring the stereo/mono aspect and whatever are on the dvds.

thebeatles-stereobox-productshot3.jpgImage Enlarger

The discography consists of every official release by Parlophone/EMI/Apple since 1962. Please lets not get thinking that 'Love Songs' or 'Reel Music' is anywhere close to being considered the same as 'Revolver ' or 'With The Beatles '.

The Anthology discs are compilations of previously unreleased material.  

P1. I understand what they were trying to do in 1987, but I feel that the best way to listen to the albums (ignoring nostalgia) is the original mono mixes. In 1979, My brother introduced me to one his friends who recently moved here from Britain. He was born in 1962 and had lots of older siblings to turn him on to The Beatles when he was about 2 and when he showed us the family record collection, it looked amazing. They had all of their albums (Please Please Me -A Collection Of Beatles Oldies in mono, Sgt. Pepper 's Lonely Hearts Club Band onwards in mono and stereo) and when I first listened to them, it sounded amazing. It sure was and still is better quality than the 1987, 2009 or US mixes. Though I do agree with you that the 1987 releases have all the commercially released tracks from 1962-1970.

P2. Agreed, I never got the point of those albums anyways.

P3. Yep, plus two new songs that were previously John Lennon solo songs (between you and me, I'd like to see them do a Beatle version of Mother ).

8 April 2017
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It seems like a good idea to consider Anthology a new album, but we have to consider different types of albums, those types are:

Studio albums

-Non-album song collections

-Unreleased song collections

-Cover albums

-Split albums

Live albums

-Alternate Versions

-Remix albums

Compilation albums

-Multi artist compilations

Now let's consider the percentage of original tracks are on the album:

Disc 1 (24/34) 70%

Disc 2 (4/26) 15%

Disc 3 (3/25) 12%

Disc 4 (0/20) 0%

Disc 5 (5/27) 18%

Disc 6 (6/23) 26%

Total (42/155) 27%

So there's 27% of original material on this album, so we can say 1/4 of it is original and the other 3/4 is alternate versions of already released material.

Overall, if you believe that at least 50% of the material on the album has to be original, then this is a alternate version album but if you believe that only 25% of it needs to be original, then this is a studio album, under the subcategory unreleased song collection.

If you're reading this, you are looking for something to do.

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