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Yoko Ono
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14 March 2014
3.27am
Wigwam
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Egroeg Evoli said
I do not hate her, but I don't love her, and that's all I'm going to say.

I found this a bit funny:

I was waiting for her head to spin around.

14 March 2014
3.12pm
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Joe
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That Dylan/heroin thing, does that refer to the car scene in Eat The Document, and Lennon's 1970 Rolling Stone interview ("We were both on fuckin' junk", or words to that effect)? Because I've always taken that interview with a big bag of salt - Lennon mouthed off in every direction, exaggerating for effect wherever he could.

FWIW, in 1980 he spoke about Mr Kite!, and how Henry the Horse wasn't a heroin reference, saying he'd never even seen heroin in 1967. Just thought I'd mention it.

Also, from what I've been able to work out, Lennon and Ono probably started using heroin via Robert Fraser, who was really part of McCartney's circle. So I'm not sure it's really all that fair to single out Yoko as a key influence. Lennon was a huge drug user who would try just about anything.

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14 March 2014
5.52pm
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Joe said
That Dylan/heroin thing, does that refer to the car scene in Eat The Document, and Lennon's 1970 Rolling Stone interview ("We were both on fuckin' junk", or words to that effect)?
Because I've always taken that interview with a big bag of salt - Lennon mouthed off in every direction, exaggerating for effect wherever he could.
FWIW, in 1980 he spoke about Mr Kite!, and how Henry the Horse wasn't a heroin reference, saying he'd never even seen heroin in 1967. Just thought I'd mention it.
Also, from what I've been able to work out, Lennon and Ono probably started using heroin via Robert Fraser, who was really part of McCartney's circle. So I'm not sure it's really all that fair to single out Yoko as a key influence. Lennon was a huge drug user who would try just about anything.

 Yes, it was Eat the Document I was referring to...thanks for the further information on that!

"This Beatles talk bores me to death." --John Lennon
15 March 2014
3.07am
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Into the Sky with Diamonds
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@Expert Textpert 

Expert Texpert said, 

"Well, I see one big thing with your post that's wrong…John claimed Bob Dylan got him high on heroin in 1966, a good two years before he did heroin with Yoko, so I don't think she can be blamed.

Also, when John (and every other Beatle) turned against Paul, it was because of Paul, not Yoko.  Paul was being sneaky and getting the Eastmans involved, and buying up shares behind John's back.

As to Julian, there is plenty of evidence that he went on vacations with John and Yoko and visited the Dakota, so I don't think Julian's claims of "poor me" are 100% justified, at least while John was alive.  And John admitted that he had less to do with Julian because he was born during Beatlemania and he just had little time for him--so what does that have to do with Yoko?

True, she may not have liked seeing John with Julian because she was separated from her own child--that's selfish, but I understand it."

I never blamed the convenience store clerk who sold me cigarettes. And yet you people blame Yoko for John's actions? This is the kind of nonsense I'm talking about. People just blame Yoko because they want to.

OK, this is a good discussion. These are my thoughts on the above:

As pointed out by Joe, it's not clear that Dylan introduced him to heroin. I haven't seen that Dylan-Lennon-heroin before, but even assuming it's true, it's pretty clear that Lennon was not an addict until Yoko came around. The fact that he might have had heroin with Dylan is not relevant. For all we know, he might have even had some in Hamburg (not likely). When he hitched up with Yoko, it was either her idea to delve back into heroin - in which case she was the instigator - or it was Lennon's idea and she was the enabler.

McCartney's choice of his brother-in-law as a manager was not smart.  But Lennon was no angel either. (Consider his decision to bring Yoko into the studio or to give the Get Back tapes to Spector without consulting the other band members.) Lennon went totally ballistic and for quite a period of time. Perhaps it was drug-fueled anger, but Yoko was his partner in crime. Again, she was the enabler.

Yes, Julian went to the Dakota etc... but every account suggests that he was relatively poorly treated. Just look at Lennon's will. Did Julian get a fair shake? Expert Texpert, where are the sources suggesting that Julian was perfectly well treated and that he's just been playing 'poor me'? (I've actually rarely heard him publicly complain.)

The fact that you can understand why Yoko felt the way she did about Julian doesn't mean it was the right thing. I suppose that's the difference between an explanation and an excuse.

Of course you wouldn't blame the convenience store that sold you cigarettes. But if the store owner moved in with you and brought packs of cigarettes, that would be different, right? Or if you were the one who brought in the cigarettes and your partner jumped in and started smoking with you, then he or she would be part of the problem, no?

"This is the kind of nonsense I'm talking about." What makes another person's position more nonsense than yours? 

"People just blame Yoko because they want to." What do you mean by that? You mean for no particular reason? Why would anyone do that? I suppose if you're Chinese or Korean you might dislike her for the simple reason that she's Japanese. But I don't see that as being an issue here. I think that people who dislike her do so for all of the above reasons. If someone thinks she was just standing on the sidelines and had nothing to do with all the negatives surrounding Lennon in the late 60's and early 70's, well, you're entitled to your opinion of course. But I don't think you can label those who think differently as speaking nonsense.

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15 March 2014
3.41am
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IveJustSeenAFaceo
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16 March 2014
2.03am
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Into the Sky with Diamonds said
@Expert Textpert 

Expert Texpert said, 

"Well, I see one big thing with your post that's wrong…John claimed Bob Dylan got him high on heroin in 1966, a good two years before he did heroin with Yoko, so I don't think she can be blamed.

Also, when John (and every other Beatle) turned against Paul, it was because of Paul, not Yoko.  Paul was being sneaky and getting the Eastmans involved, and buying up shares behind John's back.

As to Julian, there is plenty of evidence that he went on vacations with John and Yoko and visited the Dakota, so I don't think Julian's claims of "poor me" are 100% justified, at least while John was alive.  And John admitted that he had less to do with Julian because he was born during Beatlemania and he just had little time for him--so what does that have to do with Yoko?

True, she may not have liked seeing John with Julian because she was separated from her own child--that's selfish, but I understand it."

I never blamed the convenience store clerk who sold me cigarettes. And yet you people blame Yoko for John's actions? This is the kind of nonsense I'm talking about. People just blame Yoko because they want to.

OK, this is a good discussion. These are my thoughts on the above:

As pointed out by Joe, it's not clear that Dylan introduced him to heroin. I haven't seen that Dylan-Lennon-heroin before, but even assuming it's true, it's pretty clear that Lennon was not an addict until Yoko came around. The fact that he might have had heroin with Dylan is not relevant. For all we know, he might have even had some in Hamburg (not likely). When he hitched up with Yoko, it was either her idea to delve back into heroin - in which case she was the instigator - or it was Lennon's idea and she was the enabler.

McCartney's choice of his brother-in-law as a manager was not smart.  But Lennon was no angel either. (Consider his decision to bring Yoko into the studio or to give the Get Back tapes to Spector without consulting the other band members.) Lennon went totally ballistic and for quite a period of time. Perhaps it was drug-fueled anger, but Yoko was his partner in crime. Again, she was the enabler.

Yes, Julian went to the Dakota etc... but every account suggests that he was relatively poorly treated. Just look at Lennon's will. Did Julian get a fair shake? Expert Texpert, where are the sources suggesting that Julian was perfectly well treated and that he's just been playing 'poor me'? (I've actually rarely heard him publicly complain.)

The fact that you can understand why Yoko felt the way she did about Julian doesn't mean it was the right thing. I suppose that's the difference between an explanation and an excuse.

Of course you wouldn't blame the convenience store that sold you cigarettes. But if the store owner moved in with you and brought packs of cigarettes, that would be different, right? Or if you were the one who brought in the cigarettes and your partner jumped in and started smoking with you, then he or she would be part of the problem, no?

"This is the kind of nonsense I'm talking about." What makes another person's position more nonsense than yours? 

"People just blame Yoko because they want to." What do you mean by that? You mean for no particular reason? Why would anyone do that? I suppose if you're Chinese or Korean you might dislike her for the simple reason that she's Japanese. But I don't see that as being an issue here. I think that people who dislike her do so for all of the above reasons. If someone thinks she was just standing on the sidelines and had nothing to do with all the negatives surrounding Lennon in the late 60's and early 70's, well, you're entitled to your opinion of course. But I don't think you can label those who think differently as speaking nonsense.

Joe also said above that it was someone in Paul McCartney's circle who introduced John and Yoko to heroin, so that pretty much shows that it wasn't Yoko's fault.  As far as Julian playing poor me, there is a particular video on Youtube where he's being interviewed on the beach and says that he only saw his father a few times in his whole life, which is not true.  I've heard him make other comments in interviews, but I don't really feel like collecting the sources here.  They are out there and not at all hard to find.

What I find nonsense is that people blame Yoko for hooking John on heroin when there is no evidence for that--and apparently just because they want to.  What we put into our own bodies is our choice.  Yoko didn't force him to do it.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death." --John Lennon
11 July 2014
12.49am
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parlance
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Slate article on how Grapefruit inspired "Imagine."

parlance

Beware of sadness. It can hit you. It can hurt you. Make you sore and what is more, that is not what you are here for. - George

Check out my fan video for Paul's song "Appreciate" at Vimeo or YouTube.

12 December 2014
1.33am
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parlance
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New York Times article on the MOMA's plans an exhibit dedicated to Yoko starting in May of next year.

parlance

Beware of sadness. It can hit you. It can hurt you. Make you sore and what is more, that is not what you are here for. - George

Check out my fan video for Paul's song "Appreciate" at Vimeo or YouTube.

8 January 2015
1.02am
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parlance
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A Yoko tribute album called Cut Pieces will be released January 13.

parlance

Beware of sadness. It can hit you. It can hurt you. Make you sore and what is more, that is not what you are here for. - George

Check out my fan video for Paul's song "Appreciate" at Vimeo or YouTube.

8 January 2015
10.28am
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Ron Nasty
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I just find that kind of attitude, @Wigwam, incomprehensible.

Whether you like Yoko as a performer or not, it's hard to argue she hasn't written some interesting songs over the years, and with compilations like this you're able to judge the songs without Yoko as their performer.

You're actually showing yourself to have a quite blinkered view since - however good these reinterpretations of her work here - you're writing it off simply because you dislike Yoko and aren't prepared to judge anything but the baggage you've attached.

But we can ask on what did occur the question: Given that the impact of the Beatles on the world was huge, socially and politically, is the world a better place because of Yoko's influence in it?

It's like your point here. Given that John was the one who made the most political impact, and that most of that was after he met Yoko, and probably wouldn't have happened without her, with so much of it influenced, you're actually totally writing off John's work after he met Yoko. No Revolution. No Happiness Is A Warm GunNo Julia. No Don't Let Me Down. No Give Peace A ChanceNo John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band. No Imagine.

You like a single thing he did after May 1968, it's her influence that helped John find himself somewhere he could create that work.

I understand why some/many don't like Yoko. I'll never understand how those who think he created some great work after they got together, some of his best, refuse to acknowledge that that work grew out of his life with Yoko, and her influence.

It's saddens me that so many can't get over their prejudice.

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8 January 2015
5.56pm
swadders
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Atlas said

Egroeg Evoli said
I do not hate her, but I don't love her, and that's all I'm going to say.

I found this a bit funny:

I was waiting for her head to spin around.

LOL!!! She does look incredibly well for a woman in her 80's, though. Especially considering all the drugs and cigs she'll have done in her early years.

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