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Who came closest to being "The Next Beatles?"
22 September 2011
11.39pm
The Walrus
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mr. Sun king coming together said:

Edit: Something more say.

The Clash were a better band than the Sex Pistols, but culturally none of their albums had the impact of Never Mind The Bollocks.

Bull. Never Mind The Bullocks had a well-worn thread: Fuck the monarchy. Really original. Look, Bollocks, as much as the album may be great, is the Sex Pistols only real album. Body of work is important.

Yet despite the Sex Pistol's smaller, inferior body of work (one disk of songs to the Clash's eight), they're generally spoken of ahead of the Clash, at least in this country. That doesn't make sense unless they somehow had a big impact due to being in the right place at the right time. It's exactly the same as Sgt. Pepper being considered a superior album to Rubber Soul, Revolver and Abbey Road- it was just massive culturally, which the other albums weren't.

For what it's worth, "fuck the monarchy" was a pretty bold thing to say in 1977, certainly on a record.

And I neeeeeeeeed her all the time
23 September 2011
12.10am
mr. Sun king coming together
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a-hard-days-night-ringo-8Well, the Clash is completely more noticed on this side of the pond.

I tried to think of something powerful and moving… and failed.  "You were given a choice between war and dishonor - you chose dishonor, and you shall have war" - Winston Churchill
23 September 2011
6.25am
GniknuS
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mr. Sun king coming together said:

GniknuS said:

I can't say that I agree about Nirvana, Nevermind made an impact, but ultimately you're left with what ended up happening. At the end of the day, Cobain still killed himself which surely made more of a cultural impact than anything he ever said or wrote. Looking at teenage suicide rates going up and up, I'd say their ultimate legacy is more of a negative than positive one. I'm not saying he's solely responsible for the increasing rates, but certainly he can't be discounted.

Bullshit if I ever saw any. A teen who is having depression isn't going to say, "Oh, Kurt Cobain killed himself, maybe I should." Show me a fact that suicide rates in the US spiked in 1994/5.

Come on man, that wasn't my point at all. The point of this whole thread is lasting legacy, right, the "next Beatles" and the Beatles left behind many things and will be remembered for many things. Nirvana will always be more known in mass society for Cobain's suicide than any song they ever came out with, so how could their effect on society ultimately be a positive one? Teen suicide rates have increased since then, that just is what it is, I'm not saying that kids use Cobain as a model, but it is what it is and I definitely wouldn't call it complete bullshit to draw a line from a to b, even though all I said was his suicide can't be discounted as a factor in the increasing rates. It's like saying that video games that promote violence don't cause young kids to be more violent themselves, it's certainly not the only factor, but it's effect can't be discounted. I'm not going to keep arguing because it could go on and on, but please don't misinterpret what I'm saying.

I sat on a rug, biding my time, drinking her wine
24 September 2011
4.04am
mr. Sun king coming together
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You really think you know more about MY thread then I do? Get real. You said his effect on teen suicide rates shouldn't be dismissed, and yet no proof is being submitted, so you are drawing a line (that has no basis in reality) from A to B. Cobain might be remembered for his suicide, but Nirvana as a whole, no. Smells Like Teen Spirit is a ridiculously important record in music history, and that is undeniable. But what isn't so iron-clad is that the first thing that pops into a person's mind about Nirvana is Cobain's suicide. There will be people, I don't deny that. But ask the same of the Beatles, and a similar amount of people will say, "Oh, them? They're druggies." So frankly, I feel completely within my rights to say what I have said. You can not continue this - I really don't want a fight without facts anyhow. And anyways, you still haven't made any plausible link between the rate increase of suicide of teens and Cobain - I'd love to see one, but until then, maybe quiet's best. (And by the by, I never said a bands' influence must be positive. I know of what I speak.)
Edit: Thanks Von!

I tried to think of something powerful and moving… and failed.  "You were given a choice between war and dishonor - you chose dishonor, and you shall have war" - Winston Churchill
25 September 2011
5.02pm
The Walrus
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The teenage suicide rate didn't start rising until 2004 fwiw- it was actually falling for a long time before then. I think that's pretty strong evidence against Cobain's suicide inspiring young people.

And I neeeeeeeeed her all the time
25 September 2011
5.32pm
mr. Sun king coming together
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Thanks for that - I couldn't find any stats. Much obliged, Walrus!

I tried to think of something powerful and moving… and failed.  "You were given a choice between war and dishonor - you chose dishonor, and you shall have war" - Winston Churchill
26 September 2011
3.59am
GniknuS
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Boy this place is really a lot of fun these days…as long as we all share the same opinion right? 

http://www.suicide.org/suicide......html#2001

As you can see, there is a slight increase in the year 1994 for the age group 15-24, it's not a very big jump, but still that year has the highest rate of any year from 1990-2001.  No, I don't believe Cobain is solely responsible for that slight jump, but why would this thread not be about a positive impact? You want the next Beatles to have a negative impact on society?

I really don't understand why most of your posts get so defensive when someone doesn't agree with you, you really might need to relax a little bit. As for now, I'm out of here. I leave you with this song, just close your eyes. Peace to the Middle East. apple01heart

I sat on a rug, biding my time, drinking her wine
26 September 2011
12.37pm
mr. Sun king coming together
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Look, I never said I meant/wanted/implied/fill your word in/ a negative impact was a good thing. I'll work on that if you work on criticising me unfairly, acting like you know more about a topic then the person who created it, and twisting my word to prolong something. You know I never said a negative influence was desirable. You know it's a lie. So Gnik, as long as you criticise me, be willing to take a little back.

I tried to think of something powerful and moving… and failed.  "You were given a choice between war and dishonor - you chose dishonor, and you shall have war" - Winston Churchill
26 September 2011
2.13pm
meanmistermustard
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mr. Sun king coming together said:

Look, I never said I meant/wanted/implied/fill your word in/ a negative impact was a good thing. I'll work on that if you work on criticising me unfairly, acting like you know more about a topic then the person who created it, and twisting my word to prolong something. You know I never said a negative influence was desirable. You know it's a lie. So Gnik, as long as you criticise me, be willing to take a little back.

What do you mean by "like you know more about a topic then the person who created it"?

Also not sure why there is so much irritation being traded about a subject which is based entirely on personal opinion. Wont be that enticing to any visitors who come on the site and read some of the posts.

Don’t make your love suffer insecurities, trade the baggage of self to set another one free. ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)
26 September 2011
8.07pm
mr. Sun king coming together
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And when did I say I was the elder statesman? (And don't forget, the Top Poster list is off because Mods, who have many more posts then second place, can't be included). And just to be fair, I did say closest. Because yes, no one did come that close to being the next Beatles. Something always happened. (And Paulsbass, in the future, I'd rather you lecture me in private rather then publicly berate me.)

I tried to think of something powerful and moving… and failed.  "You were given a choice between war and dishonor - you chose dishonor, and you shall have war" - Winston Churchill
27 September 2011
11.45am
Zig
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Some excellent points in this thread. I'm glad it has not been reduced to name calling.

meanmistermustard said:

...not sure why there is so much irritation being traded about a subject which is based entirely on personal opinion. Wont be that enticing to any visitors who come on the site and read some of the posts.

 Very well put. Thank you. mal-evans

I think we can do a better job of disagreeing without being disagreeable. I've been guilty of it myself in the past. We are better than this.

apple01 & heart

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Every Little Thing you buy from Amazon or iTunes will help the Beatles Bible if you use these links: Amazon | iTunes

27 September 2011
4.28pm
meanmistermustard
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The problem i have with Nirvana is they only had 3 studio albums so they have nowhere near the cannon of music required to be hailed 'the next beatles', even if Nevermind is consistantly rated as one of the best albums ever. There has to be a greater amount of work produced to qualify.

So maybe U2 as they do have the cannon, have reinvented their sound a number of times, have written tracks and compiled albums that are considered to be classics, and have been around for so long and continue to sell out stadiums on a major level. But they dont really have the social impact. And not many people would be able to name all 4 members.

 

Recently saw a newspaper cutting of a public poll the sun compiled, i think in 1999 but possibly earlier (it was kind of like a world cup where 2 artists were put up against each other, the public votes, and the winner moves into the next round). Anyway the final was between The Spice Girls (i dont know when they split or when everyone got bored of their zany girl power anticsso it could be before 1999) and The Beatles. Needless to say The Beatles won with 68% of the vote. If anyone seriously suggested The Spice Girls nowadays as the main contender they would be laughed at.

Over time bands come and go. The Beatles are the yardstick and will continue to remain so for the next 50 years. No one has yet come close to laying a breath on their legacy. They still sit comfortably on the throne.  Just think of the barrage of celebrations in the media over the next few years with the 50th anniversary of their first single & album, first us concert, the release of pepper/revolver/Rubber Soul/Abbey Road. You will need a helmet and fallout shelter.

Don’t make your love suffer insecurities, trade the baggage of self to set another one free. ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)
27 September 2011
11.18pm
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mr. Sun king coming together said:

You really think you know more about MY thread then I do? Get real. You said his effect on teen suicide rates shouldn't be dismissed, and yet no proof is being submitted, so you are drawing a line (that has no basis in reality) from A to B. Cobain might be remembered for his suicide, but Nirvana as a whole, no. Smells Like Teen Spirit is a ridiculously important record in music history, and that is undeniable. But what isn't so iron-clad is that the first thing that pops into a person's mind about Nirvana is Cobain's suicide. There will be people, I don't deny that. But ask the same of the Beatles, and a similar amount of people will say, "Oh, them? They're druggies." So frankly, I feel completely within my rights to say what I have said. You can not continue this - I really don't want a fight without facts anyhow. And anyways, you still haven't made any plausible link between the rate increase of suicide of teens and Cobain - I'd love to see one, but until then, maybe quiet's best. (And by the by, I never said a bands' influence must be positive. I know of what I speak.)
Edit: Thanks Von!

OT. Just came to my mind that if somebody had asked me five years ago what the Beatles were, I would have answered, "You mean the hippies with the ugly flower shirts?" a-hard-days-night-john-6 But anyway, suicide isn't what first comes to my mind when I think of Nirvana. And Beatles still stands as the only Band whose members I can all recall. I know, pathetic.

29 September 2011
3.43am
mithveaen
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meanmistermustard said:

So maybe U2 as they do have the cannon, have reinvented their sound a number of times, have written tracks and compiled albums that are considered to be classics, and have been around for so long and continue to sell out stadiums on a major level. But they dont really have the social impact. And not many people would be able to name all 4 members.

That goes my speech of why U2 could be considered the new Beatles. a-hard-days-night-paul-10

 

Regarding their music, they have done more than people want to admit.

Here comes the sun….. Scoobie-doobie…… Something in the way she moves…..attracts me like a cauliflower… Bop. Bop, cat bop. Go, Johnny, Go. Beware of Darkness…  I believe in SH...
30 September 2011
8.52pm
JET!
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mr. Sun king coming together said:

1. Effect on the music industry.
2. Effect on society
3. Talent
4. Timelessness.

I'm honestly going to go with Bob Marley on this one. He can be given credit for spreading the Rastafari and Jamaican music movement worldwide, which went on to influence a ton of other music stemming from the Reggae style.

Everyone knows who he is, everyone could recognize his music, and most people tend to enjoy at least one or two of his songs. He was influenced by and gave voice to a lot of political and social issues in his homeland, and heck, the reggae atmosphere was one reason I went to Jamaica myself.

Talent-wise, the music makes me feel good so that speaks for itself. Obviously he's not Robert Frost or anything but there are good melodies and a good feel.

Like I said, everyone knows him. Tons of my friends these days love him. Timeless? of course.

I agree with the MJ and U2 suggestions too. This is mine. this is my message to you-u-u a-hard-days-night-ringo-9

The sunshine bores the daylights outta me
30 September 2011
9.04pm
The Walrus
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Marley is a great shout.

And I neeeeeeeeed her all the time
1 October 2011
1.09am
JET!
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Why thank you!

400 posts wooooo

The sunshine bores the daylights outta me
1 October 2011
4.26am
mithveaen
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Hey that deserves an apple!! apple01

 

The rooftop is quite crowded I must say.

Here comes the sun….. Scoobie-doobie…… Something in the way she moves…..attracts me like a cauliflower… Bop. Bop, cat bop. Go, Johnny, Go. Beware of Darkness…  I believe in SH...
1 October 2011
11.16am
McLennonSon
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I was listening to The Dark Side of The Moon & The Wall and I noticed that Pink Floyd & The Beatles were:

  • Both were popular (according to me mom (DON'T LOOK AT ME));
  • Had songs very different to each other (Let There Be More Light to On The Run, Revolution 9 to Twist And Shout);
  • And were influential (there are as much (I think) tribute bands to both Floyd and Beatles)

Just sayin'

My Music Blog. One and one don't make two One and one make one.
1 October 2011
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.... and speaking of Pink Floyd/Beatles, Macca did an album with David Gilmour (Run Devil Run).

In the late '60s if you wanted to be really cool and show that you were really deep into the music scene, you'd throw out the name Pink Floyd and their double album Ummagumma (spelling?). Then, of course, with Dark Side of the Moon they became mainstream - big time!!!

Is it still the best-selling album of all time? (or does the Best of the Eagles have that honor - for a while it went back and forth,but I've lost track).

"Into the Sky with Diamonds" (the Beatles and the Race to the Moon – a history)
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